The hubby and I are buying two lots next door to us. We planned on putting up a greenhouse and having a little home business for me. Anyway, the city planner called today and said we couldn't have a retail or wholesale business here. We're two houses away from the commercial zone wouldn't you know!

We are allowed to have a home business as long as it is fully contained in the house and we can store materials in an outbuilding. They just don't want people coming to the house to purchase things. I could still have the greenhouse and sell things by mail or on the web. I could also sell things at the farmers market which is two blocks away, but of course they are only open a few months a year.

Another idea is to grow herbs from which I could spend all winter making things like wreaths, catnip mice, etc.

Does anyone have any other bright ideas of how to get around these zoning laws? I already asked if I could appeal it and he said I could but he didn't hold out much hope for getting it changed. You know its funny, I could have a daycare center with up to 16 screaming little kids but I can't have some nice quiet little plants. Go figure.

-- debra in ks (windfish@toto.net), August 21, 2001

Answers

Response to Any ideas on how to get around zoning laws?

Some options:

You could move to a less regulated area.

You could apply for a variance. This is a process where you would detail your activities, justify why they would not be a nuisance to the neighborhood and request a determination from the governing authority. It may have to go to a public hearing.

Lastly, you could just do it anyway and hope they don't notice.

-- Skip in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), August 21, 2001.

Response to Any ideas on how to get around zoning laws?

Debra, Isn't that the way things happen here in Kansas! We do have some strange laws and all you can do is try to get a zoning change. One alternative is to have the greenhouse but sell your plants at flea-markets and farmers markets. I think every Kansas town has a weekly farmers market. Once people get to know you and what you have to sell they can order plants. You could have a business card made up and hand them out at the farmers market. Kansas is big on the local town "festivals" too and you could set up a stand and sell there too. Son't give up just get creative. Good luck and if you live anywhere around southeast Kansas let me know cause I know lots of places around here that have farmers markets and craft shows and the like you can go to. karen

-- Karen Mauk (kansasgoats@iwon.com), August 21, 2001.

Response to Any ideas on how to get around zoning laws?

I would go for the variance first. You could ask you neighbors to help you with that by going to the meeting at the township or signing a paper saying that they agree. Who is your local state representive. You would be surprised what they can do when they understand that there are votes involved. Also, you could sell at farmers markets as mentioned before and hand out business cards and have people order over the phone or on your web page. You could then deliver your plants to them !! Personal service that people just love and don't forget to take extra plants with you to sell from the back of you car at the time of delivery. You might even rather have a business like this instead of people coming to you home... more insurance needed and all of that. I certainly wouldn't give up on this idea !! Good Luck !!

-- Helena Di Maio (windyacs@ptdprolog.net), August 21, 2001.

Response to Any ideas on how to get around zoning laws?

Try for the variance, you probably will not get it but it is your only avenue of recourse. If you build a commercial anything, the city can have you tear it down. They already have had contact with you so they are not going to just forget it they will check back so don't hope they will just go away. Next time check before you buy.

-- David (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), August 21, 2001.

Response to Any ideas on how to get around zoning laws?

Hi, Debra! Boy, Kansas sure can be tricky sometimes, can't it?!?

You might want to consider selling at county livestock auctions. I know in Garnett, they have a sale every Tuesday, and it's always packed with people buying and selling EVERYTHING. They conduct an auction outside the livestock building before they sell the critters. There's also one on HWY 68 west of Paola, and east of Ottawa on Saturdays that sells a little of everything. I've seen folks selling plants at both auctions.

Whatever you decide to do, best of luck to you!

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), August 21, 2001.

Response to Any ideas on how to get around zoning laws?

Zoning laws can be silly; we looked at a house and was told it was not zoned for horses despite a large Arabian breeding farm directly across the street. Another idea is to have local stores sell your plants, like the local grocery store or even Walmart will sell local items(I used to work at one). Local resteraunts may be interested in fresh flower arrangements for their tables or near their cash register, you could deliver and make sure you include a bussiness card in the display so customers can call you. Offices may like fresh flowers as well. A local flower shop may be able to use you as their supplier for fresher flowers. You may be able to supply a local hospital's gift shop. even the little mom and pop or convenience stores sell flowers.

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), August 22, 2001.

Response to Any ideas on how to get around zoning laws?

find out, if you can have a garage/yard sale,, and if you can,, then just put up a sign,, and let the people come anyways

-- STAN (sopal@net-port.com), August 22, 2001.

Response to Any ideas on how to get around zoning laws?

For every zoning rule there are usually ways to apply for variances. You however have to do your homework. For a retail business, the planners are going to want to know how your going to deal with traffic, How often will trucks be comming and going, what kind of traffic will you have. Where will people park. Try to find an example of a similar bussiness arangment.

You may not be able to convince them and therefore need to look elsewhere or just sale mailorder.

-- Gary (gws@redbird.net), August 22, 2001.

You basically have 3 options:

1. Move - probably not a realistic option.

2. Apply for a variance. A good way to make all your neighbors hate you because of the increased traffic (or belief that there will be increased traffic), and the fact that 2 days after you move out or die, someone will buy the land, tear down the green house and build a 7-11 (now allowed because you got it rezoned as commercial or retail).

3. Grow the stuff on your land and sell it elsewhere. Probably technically illegal, but your neighbors aren't likely to care or complain as long as you keep the place neat and they can't smell or hear it. Manure piles or rototilling at 6 AM might get you put out of business, though.

-- Steve - TX (steve.beckman@compaq.com), August 22, 2001.

One other way to get around it...check out your zoning laws for yard sales and seasonal open house gift sales. People do this open house thingy a couple of times a year.

Do that with your plants, advertise a yardsale and make sure you list plants, plants, plants in the ad. Print up business cards to give out and then let the customers drop buy to pick up any plants. The big thing with the zoning laws is not that they don't want you to make money, its that they don't want the extra traffic flow.

So, in reality all they are inhibiting is regular scheduled business hours of being open to the public. If you build a greenhouse, keep it small and looking like a temporary structure. That way they can't say anything. They cannot keep you from persuing a HOBBY. Thats what we had to deal with in FL.

-- stephanie nosacek VA (pospossum@earthlink.net), August 22, 2001.

Maybe you should threaten them with the daycare center...just kidding. If you ran an evening one, shift workers would LOVE you...

Is the farmer's market only open a few months out of the year because there are other things going on at the property, or do you think there's a possible that it could be a weekly "Saturday Market" for any and all? Many cities run one year-round. Maybe you should work towards that first, with the help of other local businesses.

I agree plants are quiet, but what do your neighbors think of the plan? Have you even told them? If you had any daysleepers, they certainly wouldn't be happy about delivery people sounding horns all the time. People with kids might worry about more traffic. And then there is creeping commercialization of the residential area, which is what your city planner is looking at. Just looking at it from the other side.

Sounds like your zoning is "don't want to see it, hear it, or smell it," which still leaves you with, like you say, mail order and web sales. If you grow hard to find plants/herbs, you could still do well.

Good Luck!

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), August 22, 2001.

Thanks everyone for your great ideas. I knew I could count on you! Sorry it took so long to get back to you all. It seems that there is soooo much to do these days being recently married and all. One of my married girlfriends warned me that husbands take up A LOT of time. Boy, was she ever right!

The property is currently zoned residential. No we haven't purchased it yet, but have sent a letter of intent and we are filling out the paperwork for a loan. We do still intend to purchase the property even if we can't do what we'd planned. We already have a large lot for this small burg and the 2 additional ones will will give us a larger "yard" than almost anyone else.

Even if we don't get to have the business, we'll have plenty of room for one whale of a garden! We'll be able to grow a great percentage of our food which has always been a goal of mine.

I've talked to most of the neighbors already and everyone thinks it's great. They all said they'd rather buy their plants from me than elsewhere. Most of the neighbors stop by to chat and admire the garden I've planted in the front. (there's no yard left out there!).

Thanks again and I'll let you know how it turns out.

-- debra in ks (windfish@toto.net), August 23, 2001.

Just to be sure, sometimes the zoning person may not know what they are talking about, check it out yourself. Look what zone your property is in and verify, in writing, what can be run as a business. We had a similar experience when I went to the zoning board for our greenhouse business about the size of sign I could have. They told me I couldn't have a greenhouse business on my property. I didn't take no for an answer and checked into it. Turns out that my property was zoned agriculture, which I knew, and the agriculture zoning specifically mentioned horticulture as one of the businesses allowable. I made the argument to the board that a greenhouse is just the house in which the plants are kept just like a barn is where the animals are kept in animal husbandry which was another allowable enterprise, and I convinced them that I was right. They then just made me show that I could provide adequate off-street parking for our customers which was no problem. I used to serve on both the zoning and the planning boards in that town so I knew how these things work and I also knew that sometimes members of zoning and planning boards are not sure themselves what the rules are and if you make a good argument for your case using their own rule documents, you can sometimes get what you want. If your property is in a residential zone then you are probably out of luck because greenhouse business is not a typical one for a residential zone. Good luck.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), August 27, 2001.