Here is Alexander from Saskatchewan again. Aside from buying and selling land here in Saskatchewan, I do share some basic believes with the readers of this magazine. Sometimes I thought of an ideal lifestyle on a farm with like minded people, not unlike that of an Israeli kibbutz. Living and working together on the land, sharing work and profits, raising your own family, and yet be a part of group with common beliefs, and a purpose. The commune would welcome all, but it would be centered on Messianic Judaism(Jews who believe in Jesus), a place for people who love to farm, who love Jesus and his teachings, who love the Jewish people and Israel. In practical terms, I see this project like this: say a group of several(or more) families agree on the concept, then pull together their resources(some indigent people will be excempt), purchase a large Saskatchewan farm in the provinces south east region(good farmland, good rainfall, cheap land, lots of trees) of at least 640 acres, with a large house and buildings(more housing will be build on as needed); the cost for this farm may be around US$200.000. Depending on the number of families participating, the initial investment for each family would be about $20.000-30.000. What will we do? We will engage in profitable intensive agriculture-growing fruits and vegetables, specialty crops, breeding animals; we may have a small cannery; and do small manufacturing(log cabins, log furniture, stone tiles, etc.)based on abundant natural resources, and the know-how of each member. We will be very interactive with the surrounding community. We will extent a helping hand to those in need. We will be a shining example for the area farms...Legal questions: Americans can own land in Canada; immigration to Canada is allowed; you need not lose American citizenship if you live in Canada; communes are allowed in Saskatchewan-Hutterites already have 50 colonies; homeschooling is allowed in Saskatchewan; locals would favour such development, as Saskatchewan is losing its rural population...Anybody out there like the idea; I welcome your questions and comments!

-- Alexander Levin (morsealexlevin@hotmail.com), August 12, 2001

Answers

I like your idea, it's one I've considered myself at times. The big issue for me though, was my children. I looked into the kibbutz lifestyle a little several years ago, and found that the mothers have to put their child in the communal child care at six weeks of age and then go back to work. True, they're allowed a few hours of visiting time every day, but this would be so hard for me, especially with babies! So my question would be, what are you going to do with the children?

-- Rebekah (daniel@itss.net), August 12, 2001.

I only like the general concept of kibbutz living, but I think they segregate their children from the parents too much. In our commune the emphasis would be the family unit; each family raising their children at a place of their choice-by themselves, or in a kindergarden if mothers find it helpfull; nobody will force parents to give their children for months on end to institutional upbringing. It is my belief though, that children interacting with children their own age in first years of their life are well balanced emotionally and delelop well mentally and phisically.

-- Alexander Levin (morsealexlevin@hotmail.com), August 12, 2001.

I have often thought that homesteading would be more enjoyable than it already is if one had someone like minded to share it with on a daily basis including chores and plans. I may be out in the garden weeding or planting etc and wish I had some grown up companion to make the work go faster and be more entertaining. My husband works a day job so we don't really work together here. Many communes etc fail when personalities clash or ideals change from what I have heard/read. As for early childhood socialization, its not really a necessity and there are no proven studies that say children who were socially stimulated from birth are any smarter or better developed than other children. It is the quality of socialization (bonding in the family unit) more so than the quantity of socialization (daycare)that counts. Plus, all kids are different and appreciate socialization differently. My point? I think that a cooperative community would be wonderful! But I would insist on being able to choose my place..working in a field or home with my babies, etc rather than have that dictated to me. I wonder how such an arrangement would work. There was an article about a cooperative of 3 couples in a magazine I read recently in Harrowsmith. They all shared the house until one couple had children, I think. Each person works in the area that is their strong suit as well as helping in the other areas as needed and share the basic chores. Good luck, Alexander!

-- Alison in N.S. (aproteau@istar.ca), August 13, 2001.

Alison, I agree, that a cooperative community would be lovely... but not a heavy-handed authoritarian type of central government overseeing the operation of everything within the community. Why couldnt a group of like-minded families simply buy a large parcel of land (cheaper by the acre that way), and split it up among themselves? That way, when someone needs support in an emergency, the neighbors are handy and ready to take over the chores or to help out with the housekeeping while mom is sick. I guess it's the Amish community without the religious cultish trappings, that I am envisioning.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), August 13, 2001.

I like the idea of a messianic community homesteading together. However it is true that communal style living can be brutal when their are personality clashes. If the land could be purchased as a group and then legally subdivided into individual plots that would probably be better. Then if someone got miffed at the way things were they could sell it and leave.

I know of several messianic believers that would be very interested in such a place, especially those that live in rural areas without other messianic beleivers to associate and worship with.

"Behold how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity."

-- Jane Wagman (jwagman@mail.com), August 15, 2001.

In texas just such a community exists, i say community but some live quite far away. It is just outside of Waco and it is called Homestead Farm. They homeschool and can if they want sent children to the farm for lessons in many other things. It is called a curriculum for life. Each family live in their own chosen house and some may even have a business but they help each other and it is really remarkable how well they work together. I think it is abour 700 families involved.

-- sally stanton (mallardhen67@hotmail.com), August 16, 2001.

I think that it would be a wonderful community. Yes, people should be able to chose their own destinations, but realize, that we are all here for one purpose - and that is to be God's children and do as He will.

If we kept the 10 Commandments close to our hearts, then this type of living arrangement would work now — and forever.

Mic

-- Michele Bryant (micheleb@aol.com), August 17, 2001.

Unfortunately this idea will not work. You cannot combine Messianic Jews and Christians. Eventually the Jews will read their Torah and see in Deuteronomy 7-13,7-14. Deuteronomy 4-2.Deuteronomy 5-2.And of course Deuteronomy chapter 13.The only outcome of this venture will be for the Christian children to convert to Judaism and worship the original G-D, and not worship Jesus. I have seen it happen. My own children were raised in a Christian/Mesianic jewish communal settlement in the mid-west and now all my children are Jewish as are all of the children raised Christian in our communal group.

-- crawford (drill-instructor@wabcmail.com), August 19, 2001.

There is something both inviting about this discussion and deadening in it. Looking before leaping, discussing and planning before becoming active, these are processes that make up a core aspect of what we currently define as "adult." However, there are so many ill-defined words flying about. Isn't the leap of faith necessary to begin such a community the central support of its meaning? With faith in the common interests of diverse individuals, and a willingness to drop whatever ideologies, behaviors, or systems that are divisive and counter constructive, such a community would by definition succeed. With no intended disrespect, this kind of attempt at a pre-nuptial arrangement, dependent on so much vague naming, concerns me as to the success of the venture. I am looking for a community of faith in the one God behind the names, and faith in the holy spirit strong enough to reject what seems like empirical proof of our inherently failing nature -- one where I may constructively employ my faith in others and enjoy their faith in me. Yeah, an issue like are the mothers feeling like they can spend enough time with their kids would be about as critical as it gets. This is like agreeing in advance that the plants will need water... the whole dialogue has me confused. Hope this has been useful to read, I can't join because I don't have anywhere near that amount of money, never mind.

-- Timothy A. O'Brien (tobrien56@hotmail.com), October 04, 2001.

Alexander and others,

I have just moved with my family from Australia to Texas. In Australia we were seeking to establish a similar form of Christian based community, based on homeschooling and farming co-operatives. However the smaller number of Christians in Australia made it hard for us to get enough families in one place to get the right amount of momentum towards buying land and other material needs. We had a group of about 4-5 families within 10-12 miles of each other allowing close fellowship and still allowing resources to be easily shared. Still we were all too far away from each other to enable the easy help and sharing of work on each others farms, or to establish communal facilities for gardens, barns, housing etc.

In relation to homeschooling and socialization, I agree with the general conclusion that socialization is not a problem, nor is the "quantity" level of interaction with other children an indicator of a child's ability to socialize effectively. We have found in fact that our children and those of other families have tended to have better social skills due to the increased interactions with people of all ages, not just children.

I would be interested to find out more about the plans for a Christian based community in Saskatchewan, a much smaller move to Canada from Texas than from Australia.

My only comment on the Messianic Judaism issue is that I have found them to be very knowledgable of the old testament and history of the Jewish/Israeli nation, but if they have truly converted to beleiving in Jesus, then they also are extremely valuable in showing and teaching all of the old testament indicators of the Messiah to come. There is a great deal of value in having this additional knowledge from the point of view of seeing all of the Messianic prophecies fulfilled in Jesus, but it doesn't change one bit the fact that one has to make a leap of faith to become a Christian. I haven't yet encountered a true Messianic Jew (i.e. a true believer in Jesus) that tried to convert a Christian to Judaism. It would probably tend to indicate that they were never truly converted to Christianity.

I'd be happy to have feedback and comments to my Email address or via the discussion thread.

God bless.

Graham

-- Graham Towerton (gatowerton@hotmail.com), December 19, 2001.

Oh,

Another thing. Reading Tim O'Brien's note requires a couple of responses.

Yes Tim you're right. It requires a leap of faith and everyone to have an expectation of success, not failure.

On the money issue and whether you'd have enough to join. Here's a challenge for all of us Christians, one that I set before my friends in Australia. Suppose that 4 families have enough money to start the venture and there's more than enough room for others to join over time. The whole point is to create a community for others to willingly join, and to make it inexpensive. The entry hurdle of cash at bank should not be prohibitive to allow others (with little or no cash) to join provided that they can willingly and actively contribute to the ongoing support of the community i.e. growing food enough to share with others and developing income streams to maintain a cash flow for the community and its members.

The typical response I have received is "why would anyone fork out there own money to have others join who do not have money". To which I challenge people to read Acts all over again. The biggest challenge will always be the money, not the lack of it, but the willingness of Christians to think of we, not me, when it comes to sharing.

So Tim, if you're willing and able to make a contribution, the lack of money shouldn't be a barrier to your entry to the community provided the people within the community are truly abiding by the "all things in common" principle expounded in Acts. Having put my money where my mouth is, I have a Christian family living for free on my farm in Australia so that they could escape the city and join the loose knit community we had established there. The biggest hurdle is actually overcoming fear that you'll get ripped off. That is a leap of faith.

God's blessings to all again.

Graham

-- Graham Towerton (gatowerton@hotmail.com), December 19, 2001.

Graham, I suspect that you'll find the same thing wherever you go. There is in fact no shortage of Christians in Australia - although we're not as widespread as we'd like because of what faces our non- Christian friends. However, you've formed your own idea of an ideal lifestyle (which in fact in not necessary for the expression of Christianity), and now you're going out hoping to find it somewhere and thereby find fulfilment in this life. Ain't gunna happen, man.

In fact, a major leader in my bible study group this year was a converted Jew. His insight into scripture (both Old Testament and New) was inspirational.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), December 19, 2001.