Now that my sickly Suffolk ram is feeling a bit better he is showing his true colors. He butts. Came after me about 5 time last night (everytime I turned my back to walk away he would get ready to butt but I was able to fend him off). So, my questions are thus...Why would a well treated animal butt? Any tips on curing this habit?

-- Alison in N.S. (aproteau@istar.ca), August 07, 2001

Answers

1) Why? Instinct. Rams butt. So do other sheep, only less so (barely). He may also have been raised as a bottle lamb - they get used to nudging/butting at the bottle, which they view as doing it to the person, and they get used to it having a positive result, from their point of view. Their mothers would cure them of that - people tend not to.

2) Cure? Mutton stew.

If the solution isn't acceptable, you'll have to avoid situations where the problem can arise. Avoid being in a situation where he can butt you. As far as possible, be on the other side of a fence from him. Use a dog to help work him when you have to. If you can't get a good dog, get a couple of good men and hope they're up to the task. I mean this seriously - the one time you don't fend him off or don't see him coming you could end up with broken bones. Care is preferable to the risk.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), August 07, 2001.

I agree with Don on this. Rams that have been treated very well, ie; bottle fed, hand treated for illness, shown at fairs, etc. tend to lose any fear of humans and are more dangerous in my opinion than one that has minimal contact. I NEVER turn my back on ANY ram. I have heard of too many injuries and even a death to trust them . I carry a 4 foot piece of pvc pipe with me as a deterrent whenever I enter a ram pen or field. Stings their noses but doesn't injure them.Also I have splashed water on aggressive rams and it seems to deter them while I change the water or feed them. Premier Sheep supply sells a ram face mask that allows side vision, but not direct sight. When I need to keep a ram separate for any length of time I put a wether ( castrated ram) in with him. Having company seems to keep them less inclined to tear the pens apart. Unfortunately aggressiveness in a ram is "the nature of the beast."

-- Kate henderson (kate@sheepyvalley.com), August 07, 2001.

A friend of mine would have been killed by a ram if not for a big tree and her herd dog .Be very carefull.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), August 07, 2001.

I did lose a dog to a ram a few years ago, My 15 year old Border Collie somehow got into the pasture with me unnoticed(I was too busy watching for the ram). Ben,my dog , lay by the gate waiting for me. I saw the ram charging him and yelled, but he was hard of hearing and didn't move quick enough. He died an hour later from his injuries. A sad lesson for me.

-- Kate henderson (kate@sheepyvalley.com), August 07, 2001.

I agree with Don on the mutton stew. I have been dealing with a very aggressive Boer buck for several months. If he doesn't get to the sale this weekend he is going on the bone pile. He killed twin doelings, 2 weeks old, yesterday. Climbed the fence into the pasture they were in. Mean animals are more trouble than they are worth.

-- Terri Perry (teperry@stargate.net), August 07, 2001.

Terri that buck would have been dead if it where mine .How sad to loose 2 little babies to him.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), August 07, 2001.

All good advice. I consider rams *very* dangerous critters. I would rate them right up there with bulls as far as wanting to walk through a pasture with them. I have been seriously butted once, and truly, if I had not been in good physical shape and had been more than a few footsteps from his charge, I would have had a broken thigh at the very least... Be careful, especially with breeding season coming up fast. Good luck.

-- sheepish (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), August 07, 2001.

Just buy him a leather face guard, it is a mircle cure, rams don't butt if they can't see directly in front of them. I was under the impression you saved him to use for breeding, than get on a good sheep board and learn basic information, and basic is that rams butt! pipestone.com sells face guards. If he is just a pet than castrate him, the butting leaves with the testicles. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), August 07, 2001.

I have not had a lot of experience with sheep . when I bought this p;ace there were several sheep in the pasture that belonged to a neighbors daughter, and were in a 4h project. The ram attacked me a couple of times , and the neighbor told me to grab him and throw him down and hold him down a couple of minutes . I did this a couple of times , and never had any more trouble with him .O f course at that time I was 30 years younger, and in good condition. Big George

-- George Wilson (cwwhtw@aol.com), August 07, 2001.

SHEEP PROBLEMvI have enot had a lot of experience with sheep . when I bought this p;ace there were several sheep in the pasture that belonged to a neighbors daughter, and were in a 4h project. The ram attacked me a couple of times , and the neighbor told me to grab him and throw him down and hold him down a couple of minutes . I did this a couple of times , and never had any more trouble with him .O f course at that time I was 30 years younger, and in good condition. Big George

-- George Wilson (cwwhtw@aol.com), August 07, 2001.

We recently gave our ram away because all he wanted to do was chase my wife and butt her. We used 'sports bottles' with water in them to squirt him in the face,but it gets old carrying a water bottle around. Be careful with him. Mike

-- ourfarm (ourfarm@nospam.com), August 07, 2001.

I should have been a little more upfront about what I said - there is every possibility that the the bones a ram (or a buck, or a bull, or a stag, for that matter) breaks will be skull, or spine. Or pelvis - good chance, if the first one gets you down - and that means several months in traction. Or rupture spleen or kidneys or liver. Or just plain wreck a knee for the rest of your life. Anything.

As for castration, can help, but no guarantee. If their behaviour is entirely due to testosterone-induced aggressiveness, maybe. However, if their behaviour patterns have formed, that may not do more than slightly reducing the problem (if that).

I'd really think hard about whether the characterisics displayed are what you want bred into your flock. Behavioural characteristics are about as hereditable as other complex characteristics, and breeding for docility is perfectly possible. As it happens, also inclined to mean good high-yield carcases, and that's what Suffolks are about.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), August 07, 2001.

We recently brought our sheep back from grazing at a friends place. The ram who had previously been fairly docile has turned into a real mean bugger. I think the fact the there were dogs at the friends place that were always in sight drove up his defensiveness. We brought him home and he snapped several trees in the paddock where he was and also decided he should take out the gate on the stable and had a go at the loose boards on it as well. He seems to have settled a little but we will never take our eyes off him again. I was in with a sack of feed once and he charged me. Luckily I was holding the sack off to the side and he was more interested in the sack than in my knees! Before I had time to react he charged again by which time I threw the sack and 'made for the hills' so-to-speak! Our farming friend has recently told us that if we were ever in with him and he was coming at us and we couldn't get away in time that we'd be better off moving towards him than away (I guess that would turn a 'smash' from the ram into more of a push-fight until something could be done) Might also put him off if he had only half decided to charge you.. (but only if getting away is not an option!!) It's all about begin the boss....and knowing who's in charge. Our boy obviously forgot who was in charge! We will try to remind him from now on!

-- jen (jennifer.nepton@airways.co.nz), August 07, 2001.

I agree with Vicky, a face guard will slow him down.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), August 08, 2001.

Well, doesn't this just bite the big one? I guess this is what happens when I don't stick to my original plan which was to obtain a ram lamb from other shepherds each year for breeding and then freezer them. This acquaintance had to move and I just could't resist the idea of a pure bred animal that was described as "a sweetie but playful" so I took him on as a breeding ram. I am thinking that after he does his thing this fall he's outta here. I just am not into the butting ram headaches this will bring and I have my children to think of too. They want to be involved and now i have to curtail that due to fear for their safety (really wanted this homestead thing to be a family affair as much as possible). I had read that water in the face is a good lesson but this guy is 5 yrs old and has had his habit for awhile (remember..he was described as playful). As for a push war..thats kind of how I fended him off..as he came near I moved toward him, caught his chin and pushed up to raise the head from butting position. It didn't require any real force on my part. He didn't seem real aggressive just in a butting mood. I think you are all pretty great for helping me with this question. Thanks a bunch.

-- Alison in N.S. (aproteau@istar.ca), August 08, 2001.

He nailed me last night right in the left arm as I was about to put feed in his bucket. Big jerk. It really hurt as he got a couple of steps run before he butted me. :o( After I fed the gals in the other paddock I had to scream for my husband to come out and help me get out of the paddock. The dog is useless..rolls over for the ram to rub her belly (like thats gonna happen). So much for the shelters claim she's part border collie! LOL Its embarrassing to admit but after it was all done I bawled like a big baby..my feelings were so hurt! Needless to say when hubby found out why I was crying he had a bit of a chuckle. What a picture..puttering in the corn patch blubbering like a child. Some homesteader.

-- Alison in N.S. (aproteau@istar.ca), August 09, 2001.

Alison, that's fine. we've all got to learn things. That includes your children, and if what they have to learn is that sometimes things don't work out as we'd wish, and we have to turn the page and move on to the next chapter - well, that's a valuable lesson. Better for them to learn not only about caring, but also about cutting their losses when caring isn't enough, while it won't break their hearts. And I don't think it will do any damage whatsoever for them to know that the things that go wrong can upset their parents, but their parents can still go on in the face of it.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), August 09, 2001.

P.S. they were probably right - about the way he was with them. No bad faith. You're not them, you are more or less a stranger rather than the one who raised him, and he's treating you differently - duh!

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), August 09, 2001.

Don, do you perchance live on an obscure mountain top, meditating on questions of the universe etc? You are so wise!! Not only did you hit the nail on the head but made me feel better too. Thank you, friend.

-- Alison in N.S. (aproteau@istar.ca), August 09, 2001.

I thank you for your thoughts, kind lady. However, I'm by no means perfect. As I said to someone else, mind like a sponge: unfortunately body likewise. My challenge is to do something productive with what I do know, and it's not a challenge I've met real well.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), August 09, 2001.

Carry a bat , put the food over the fence and NEVER go in without hubby there .If he comes after you wack him as hard as you can .And after fall he should be stew meat .Hope you stay safe.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), August 09, 2001.

Thank you, Patty. I had to go in yesterday and kept the hose with me..he got two shots in the face as a warning when he looked at me funny (you know ..the hmmm how would a butt feel right about now? look) and left me alone after that. I moved all containers to the fence line so I can do it all over the fence now. A happy note..his mucous membranes seem pinker around the eyes so his blood cell count must be coming up a lot!.

-- Alison in N.S. (aproteau@istar.ca), August 10, 2001.