Anyone able to give us an update from CA re: Rolling Blackouts?

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California has now experienced two days of rolling black-outs, due to not enough electricity being available. As I understand it, they have been from 60-90 minutes in duration each time. This happened after a few days of Level 2 and Level 3 warnings.

While I know you are being asked to conserve and not use electricity for frivolous things (like go to this Forum, I guess....)can someone who lives there give us an update on what's going on? I heard it was mostly Northern California, but not sure.

Good news for hydro, I guess: It's raining up here (Pacific Northwest) today.

Thanks.

-- sheepish (WA) (rborgo@gte.net), January 18, 2001

Answers

As I understand the problem, the Northern part of the state is currently dependent on power from the Northwestern hydro. With the low water, there is not enough generation to keep them up to their normal usage. The southern part of the state has good interties with AZ and Nevada where they are currently purchasing lots of power with still more available. Problem is power line intertie in the state of CA is not adequate to deliver all the power the north needs from the south. Thus blackouts up North, currently OK down South.

As to the solution, everyone is still blaming the problem on someone else.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), January 18, 2001.

Well we are having power outages, mine was off from 10 am tell 10;45, I wasnt home so no problem. I for one look forward to it, Get to use my countryside training. Just hope it dosnt last days as dont want to lose freezer [ this spring going to get a genorator]. We dont get to cold so If heat goes we will be ok.Lot of fast food places having to throw out half cooked food.I was talking to a women at my sons class she has a 2 bedroom house and she just got her pge bill 600 dollars for one month!Bet people will learn to conserve now.Ours was 145 last month, supposed to double this month.Time for the goverment to help people hook up to solar, we have plenty of sun.Should be a wild ride.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), January 18, 2001.

We live in the Sierra foothills of central california. From what I have read and heard there have been blackouts as close to us as Fresno, (About 100 miles away), and then also in the San Francisco area. We heard we were here were suppose to be effected but so far we haven't had any problems. I would look forward to it myself except for water. We have a well and with no power there is no water. On the news they are asking everyone to conserve. I think the higher prices will make most people conserve who wouldn't normally do so. The only long term answer is solar or some other renewable source of energy. I, for one am ready !

-- Cindy Palmer (jandcpalmer@sierratel.com), January 18, 2001.

We had rolling blackouts in this area yesterday and today. The public service announcements are that once an area has experienced the rolling blackout it will be blackout free until all other areas of the state have had their "turn". The small city (7 miles away) had areas blacked out yesterday and today the little river valley I live in had their turn. I was at work (50 miles away) both times. I feel quilty using the dryer (its electric because the gas hookup would have been about $1500 and the sun doesn't reach into my yard this time of year with enough energy to dry clothes in one day) but laundry has to be done. I work with children who have fragile health and must have a completely clean wardrobe daily for work. We have been trying to only have lights on in rooms we are in. This is hard for the teens (but then every thing is hard for them these days) but I explain daily with graphic illustrations of the possible outcomes of ignoring the problem. I know that this is just the beginning of the problem for the state-thank goodness I was raised to think of what everything cost in terms of time and effort so conservation is second nature. Think of us and send warm thoughts because the cold is a problem for those of us who heat with gas or electricity and it has been unusually cold here. I can usually see my breath in this room even with the heater on ( an old and not efficient gas space heater as so many are in this area of old 'summer houses'). betty

-- betty modin (betty_m9@yahoo.com), January 19, 2001.

Betty, You posted: "The public service announcements are that once an area has experienced the rolling blackout it will be blackout free until all other areas of the state have had their "turn"."

They are lying to you, southern CA has not and will not have any blackouts as long as AZ has power to sell.

HELL must freeze over AND the Minnesota Vikings win the superbowl before most Californians will change their ways. There is no way those in CA will pay double or triple the new costs to go solar. Nuclear is cheaper, but CA will only build those plants in other states. The only problem with the whole mess Californians have gotten themselves into is they will increase their migrations to other nearby states. We are already asshole to elbow with them here in Arizona.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), January 19, 2001.

Alright now, Class, everybody repeat after me: "THANK YOU, Republican deregulators!"

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), January 19, 2001.

snoozy- before you go pointing blame at any one group, answer why in one of the fastest growing states there have been no new power plants built in the last ten years. Can you say NIMBY? that would be the back yard of a 5000+ sq. ft. show palace for two people and a dog. that would be the same deregulation concept that was doomed from the outset because consumer prices were fixed while wholesale prices were not and suppliers were not allowed to negotiate long term contracts to better fix their costs. Plenty of blame to go on both sides of the political spectrum.

-- ray s (mmoetc@yahoo.com), January 19, 2001.

Ray: We have had a series of govs who decided not to build plants but to buy our power from outside sources. To be fair those outside sources were also chompin at the bit to sell to Calif huge market. But you are right prices were fixed at the consumer level so when deregulation started and wholesale prices went up our electric companys startd losing money and now are near bankrupt. To further compound the problem nobody wants to sell power because they may not get thier money so they demand cash at inflated prices. But Snoozy is right in that was all Republican govs. When Gray Davis took office he started building power plants again. We learn. The state will shortly begin to buy power at much lower prices and then sell to our power companys at cost.{Bail out}. And as for the California haters I hope this doesn't become a constant theme. The only problem we have is over population and these people came from somewhere else!....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), January 19, 2001.

Two years age my girlfriend, who lives out in Silicon Valley territory, emailed me to brag about the new 5000 sq ft "smart house" she and her husband where having built (big tech $).Electrical cables run though every part of the house, doors slide open when you approach, the pool temperature can be adjusted from the kitchen or bedroom, central air, a tv the size of a movie screen, bathtubs that retain constant water temperature etc. It's hard for me to have sympathy for people when we value excessive comfort and plastic stuff above the health of our environment.

Should we have to drill for oil in our national parks so a segment of our population can drive oversized SUV's and play tennis until midnight on their private lite up courts?

I can only hope we will all be outraged (both rich and poor) enough to demand more R&D money go into clean safe alternative engery. It is only than we can have our engery cake and eat it too.

-- diane greene (cnnursery@ulster.net), January 20, 2001.

oh my goodness, two diane green's on the same forum??? Hi Diane Greene from diane green. Just my two cents on "california prejudice", unless you are American Indian you didn't "come from" any place in the United States. We are all fellow travelers on this "spaceship" earth and no matter where we are from we should have a hand in utilizing it appropriately and in the best interest of our fellow man. imho

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 20, 2001.

Saw something very interesting on the news the other night. In Eastern Washington, South of Walla, along the Gorge, they have made a "power farm". 450 wind turbines, each built to make even more wind for the one behind it. When completed, they will supply 70,000 all-electric homes, or the equivalent. The farmer's whose non-productive (Used up) wheat fields they're on get $150.00 per month per wind turbine, plus their own personal power free. Clean, renewable, and about time! I wish they'd set up a couple in my fields! Kathie

-- Kathie in Western Washington (twinrosefarm@worldnet.att.net), January 20, 2001.

California has had those wind turbines set up for years. They call them "wind farms". When you travel through the central valley to the coast you go through an area called Pacheco Pass. There are probably a thousand or more of them set up in the hills there because it is always windy. For some reason the times we have driven through there they are no all in operation. Don't know how much they really generate. Seems like if that was the answer it would be much easier, faster and cheaper to set up more of those then building those nuke plants or hydro plants. But I don't know much.

-- Cindy Palmer (jandcpalmer@sierratel.com), January 21, 2001.

Hi Cindy Palmer, There is a couple of problems with large scale windmills. 1)Construction cost per kilowatt hour is very high, 2) As of now they are not long life devices (a steam plant lasts 40-50 years), 3) they are high maintenance, and 4) the biggest problem is they are extremely noisy, both through the air and ground vibrations. Land for miles around is not habitable when a large wind farm is fully operational. I expect it is possible to overcome these problems given enough time and money. So far after 20 years, not much progress despite massive tax write-offs.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), January 21, 2001.

JLS - Let's take a deep breath with the California shots. There are LOTS of us here in the Golden State that understand AND PRACTICE good conservation methodologies. As for "migrations to other nearby states", let's be real. The vast majority of the population of our state "migrated" here, with their sloppy, hoggish habits, did their damage, and then grabbed a ride out of state. You appear to have a general opinion of Californians that's just a bit skewed.

Speaking of skewed, we don't live in a 5000+ sq ft home, Ray. Most folks in California don't. Sure, there are some big homes here, but there are plenty of places outside California with bigger houses.

A BIG piece of the problem with energy (and many other things) here in California is that an awful lot of folks who had no opportunity in their home states came here looking for new starts. Our guest population is triple any other state in the union, so please try and be more considerate to those of us who have always lived here, and who do our best to go easy on the earth.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), January 21, 2001.

Kathy- My apologies to any I have offended who are living responsibly. Cal. isn't the only place that conspicuous consumption is out of hand, but it is the one we are discussing now. I can drive 5 minutes outside of Madison, Wi and see these same types of houses crowding out productive farmland. There is a reason your "guest population" is higher; promises have been made that California is the land of opportunity and sunshine. This was true during the depression and is the same today. High tech companies here in wisconsin have trouble filling jobs because people like the climate in the silicon valley better and we can't lure them away. The same things that brought your ancestors to Cal. are bringing future generations ancestors there now. Should they be condemned any more than the 49er's or the Okies or whatever generation "native" Californians can claim as there own. Quit blaming others and work together as a state to solve the problem. Locking the borders isn't going to help you.

-- ray s. (mmoetc@yahoo.com), January 22, 2001.

Los Angeles

No black outs here!

Costco- more lights out then on, almost needed a match to purchase! I applaud them!!!!

Wal Mart- business as usual!!! every light on in the place- SHAME on YOU!!!!

High Schools in my area- all half day!!!! SHAME on you!!!!!!

All Government offices- Business as usual!!! SHAME on YOU!!!!!

(close the doors and turn out the lights on Gov. offices and let the kids get their education's!!!!)

California has had so many people move here over the last 30 years; the infrastructure has not been built to keep up. Allot of that has to do with California's very strict environmental requirements.

I have to say I do get a bit tired of all the 'California Bashing'. I was born here as was my parents, grandparents and so on. When people attack others because of where they live that is a bit childish and if everyone was told to go back to where they were born....California would be fairly empty!!! Another thing I am so tired of reading is the class envy. Do not knock people for being about to afford a 5000 sq. ft home or for the power that it takes to live in that home. Some people just choose a different lifestyle then others. And remember one thing about those 5000 sq. ft homes....it was the State of California and the Counties that give the O.K. for them to be built! why? more revenue! so go complain to the government for that.

I am a child of this Golden State!

-- westbrook (westbrook@qnet.com), January 23, 2001.

Westbrook......its not just California. In Colorado its the same thing. More growth than the utilites can keep up with. And the same 5000 square foot house...or much larger. I have seen a lot that are 12,000+. Also take a look at the Atlanta area ..same thing. It does not make it right though. In my opion if you can afford that kind of house you can afford to produce your own power. We do and live in a small cabin. These people are the ones regardless where they live that generally *don't get it* They think money can by anything...and everything is forever. I foresee a time when the poor people will be sitting in the dark while these mansions on the hill are well lit. JMO

-- Lynette (fear_the_bear@webtv.net), January 23, 2001.

I live in So. Cal, about 70 miles NW of L.A. A neighboring town, about 5 miles away had blackout this morning, don't know how long it was.

We are doing our conservation part, but we have experience. Went through the Jan. 1994 earthquake with no power for a week. No big deal, but we also plan for these things. Most people won't believe it's real until their power actually goes out.

Got a letter from my daughters school, they will call all parents to pick their kids up if power is out more than 1 hour. Seems kinda stupid to me because the classrooms have all windows on one side. Plenty of light to continue class.

And if the govt isn't setting the example most won't take it seriously. I drove by our govt center last weekend, about 10 pm and the place was lite up like a candle. Most of the big houses along the canyon going to our ranch have so many lights on you can see the people walking across the room, and count the number of TVs they have.

Personally, most in CA won't get the message until the power does go out.

Hubby told me he read in the paper that Sysco (sp?) put a stop to a new power plant that would service just Silicone Valley because they didn't want to look at it. A company shouldn't have that much control over what is necessary for the area. Well, if their power goes out maybe they'll be the first one's arguing for a new power plant.

-- Jennifer Schwabauer (schwabauer@aol.com), January 23, 2001.

"Do not knock people for being about to afford a 5000 sq. ft home or for the power that it takes to live in that home. Some people just choose a different lifestyle then others" Westbrook, there are many people who can afford that life style that are considering others and making responsible decisions NOT to be greedy. Money does not justify irresponsible living and use of limited resources.The grab it because you can mentality needs to stop at some point. It is happening here in Michigan also. I also see a future class of haves, and the have nots sitting in the dark. I have seen it in other countries and it is not a pretty picture.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 23, 2001.

We have friends who have considerable amounts of money (after all, all you had to do was work at Microsoft for a few years...with stock options and stock splits, a bunch of folks ended up rich around here pretty fast.) However, many of these same folks have turned into the biggest philanthropists, donating large amounts of money as well as time to their churches and communities. I am not exaggerating, nor kidding. Just b/c someone has money does not mean that they are somehow unworthy. Sometimes, it's just the opposite, although I imagine a lot more rare! The folks I know live in modest homes, drive fairly old cars, are environmentally concerned, vote, etc. I have one good friend who doesn't even own a teevee. She's probably worth at least $1M by now...you would never guess to meet her!

One big problem, though, is that the OTHER folks with the money who DO have the big homes (and the debt?) have effectively destroyed any chance at affordable housing around here. For that I am greatly saddened...

-- sheepish (WA) (rborgo@gte.net), January 23, 2001.

Man, you folks are hurting, big time. I will do all I can, once you call a heart from a spring.

-- After All (itisonly@rock&toll.com), January 24, 2001.

I live on the Central Coast of Calif. About an hour and a half above Santa Barbara. We have not, so far anyway, had any blackouts at all, not even a flicker. We are about 15 miles from the Diablo Cyn nuke power plant, but get our power from Arizona apparently. I live in a mobile home (quite alot under 5,000 sq. feet) in the country, and my relatives (grandparents as children) were some of those Okies who came here during the depression. I really don't think anyone needs the generalizing....every one has a different situation. I hope they get this power thing figured out. Unfortunatly, like most people, we are tied to electricity. At least for now.

-- Jenny P. (auntjenny6@aol.com), January 25, 2001.

-- (noneofyour@biz.com), July 13, 2001