More on West Coast power problem

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Along the West Coast of the United States, the Northwest has always used the most power in the winter, to provide heat when during cold weather, and the Southwest has always used the most in the summer, for air conditioning. Much of this power comes from huge hydroelectric dams in the Pacific Northwest. But this year, federal officials have ordered the Northwest to give up some of its precious power in order to stave off more blackouts in California. This is causing power problems to spread across the West. State officials are worried about possible electricity shortages, higher utility rates and environmental problems.

Low rainfall in the Northwest means that there are lower than normal water levels in the reservoirs. There have already been problems with thousands of salmon eggs that have been left exposed, and demands for extra power in the South would worsen the situation, effecting salmon fishing.

The situation is also exacerbating the tensions that already exist between states in the area. "We are really at risk of having the state of California and its energy problems drag the rest of us down with it," said Governor John Kitzhaber of Oregon, "…Obviously, the big dog on the block is California." He blamed the problem on California’s failed deregulation experiment that began 4 years ago, which was supposed to guarantee cheaper utility rates. There are even rumors that the shortage been created on purpose by private business in order to increase profits.

"I’d liken it to strains on a pretty good marriage," said Bob Royer, of Seattle City Light. Due to hydroelectric power, his area used to have what seemed like a cheap and inexhaustible amount of electricity. But population in the state is rising, and utility companies now have to be aware of environmental concerns, such as the salmon in local rivers, which are on the Endangered Species list.

Tacoma Power in Washington State said it might have to add an 86% surcharge to residential utility bills. The Public Utility Commission in Oregon has asked to raise electrical bills 13%. This is certain to fuel even more resentment in these states towards their neighbors to the south.

Source: The New York Times, Dec. 17, 2000

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), December 19, 2000

Answers

Yeah, it's heating up! In Snohomish County, WA, where I live, in our PUD statements, we got coupons for a $3 discount on flourescent bulbs for our lamps. The retail stores are getting some kind of additional rebate, too. We can buy these things (I hate the light they transmit, but ok for the outbuildings and garage, etc.) for $5.99 instead of $10. Guess the life of the bulbs is incredibly long.

I really am resentful about sending power to areas where people aren't conserving. I would hate to see folks that I know and am fond of in my area be cold this winter, just so somebody in CA can have a teevee on in every room. (And I know, not everybody in CA is like that. Not everyone in WA is keeping their thermostat at 72F either!)

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 19, 2000.

The problem with power in California has to do with the WHOLE situation. Normally this time of year is not as cold as it has been recently so power plants switch over to maintaince mode on a rotating basis. We normally only have a few freezing nights in late fall and then get cold rain in January (here in Central Coast area anyway) This year the nights are very cold (for us) with frost every night the past two weeks and damp air from heavy rains earlier (also not normal yet for us) that make it feel colder to us. Not only are the plants down for maintaince but some are also down because of environmental concerns. Add to that the festive season that most of us are used to dressing up in lights for and you have a need for more power than usual. The deregulation is probably a bust-and California does use a lot of power-especially in the area of Silicon Valley where constant temperatures are a must in manufacturing todays high tech "stuff". Not all of California is the same-I always get my "dander up", as my mother says, when people make assumptions. I have lived in California since I was 5 years old and NEVER have I known anyone that actually looked or acted like the stereotypical Californian. I live in Norther California so maybe "they" all live in So. Calif. Anyway-we don't all have t.v.s blaring, heat turned up and thumb our noses at conservation. Sorry I feel the need to 'defend' but assumptions are always wrong. By the way my power bill went from $80 for October to $220 for November and is more than double from my highest bill last year when there were two more teenagers living here and we've been warned that it will be higher next month. The northwest is not the only area paying for the power shortage. betty

-- betty modin (betty_m9@yahoo.com), December 19, 2000.

Hi Betty!! I'm Northern California too! 7 new electric plants are being built right now. Also Gov. Davis is going to buy electricty from Mexico and Canada. The rest of the nation better hope California does alright or big time recession for everyone.....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), December 20, 2000.

We have already had an increas in our electricity cost, from just under $.05 per KWh to $.06 per. Our last bill was up 50% form the last due to using an electric heater in our bathroom during a cold snap last month. Since then we have installed 2-Vermont Castings, vent free LPG heaters and we don't have to use the electricity but the price of Propane has increased 14 cents a gallon in 3 weeks to $2.14 per gallon. I might add it is the first time since we lived here in the winter that the whole house is warm, from ebed to end and we shut off the heat at night, we did not have this luxary before.

-- Hendo (OR) (redgate@echoweb.net), December 20, 2000.

...and the 7 new power plants in California will be using WHAT for fuel, Kirk?

a) low sulfur coal from western states b) natural gas from the Middle East c) hydro-electric power from spit'in in the wind d) LOTS of hamster wheels e) Rotating wind turbines, which, when coupled together will rip California off the continental land mass and send it careening across the Pacific.

Just curious,

(:raig

-- Craig Miller (CMiller@ssd.com), December 20, 2000.

Sorry, ya'll, but I've never actually met a Californian that was not a jerk. I know that logically and statistically, not all Californians are jerks. It is a numerical impossibility, just as all Southerners are not illiterate, moonshine brewing, tobacco spittin' rednecks. (Just a lot of us are.) Anyway, what really bothers me about the power situation in California is this: If they continue to pull power off other parts of the country, will this not cause the domino effect that everyone was worried about for Y2K? I mean, won't it eventually pull the entire system down? That was what I understood all the Gary Norths of the world to be trying to tell us last year at this time. Maybe I misunderstood. I'm not illiterate, but I do seem to have intermittent alzheimers.

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), December 20, 2000.

Green, I think this situation will affect only the Western Power Grid, which extends from British Columbia to parts of Mexico. It's a big territory.

I think I posted elsewhere that our electric bills are going up 33% effective Jan.1, and natural gas just went up 30+% as well. In Pierce County (Tacoma) there is an emergency surcharge for electricity being considered (and I think passed last night) for a 50% increase. So the big population areas (outside of Seattle, which has its own power generation via City Light, which owns its own hydro dams on the Skagit River) are being slammed with huge increases in retail costs.

This is going to have a nasty effect on local businesses as well as individual homeowners. I know a lot of people who are barely making it month to month as it is. I am very concerned about the creation of additional homeless populations.

btw, I don't really have a stereotype of Californians other than they are usually energetic and imaginative. I have lots of friends who live in CA, mostly northern. But I also happen to know folks in L.A. who consume vast amounts of energy "because it's there" or something. And I would resent them using power unwisely. No offense intended here. Just additional $.02...

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 20, 2000.

Sheepish, I am not sure I understand your electric rates. The rates for Washington consumers are going up 33% so the states power plants can provide power to California? Do you have any shortages?

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), December 20, 2000.

It gets complicated, but what the deal is, Washington supplies power to California in the summer, when their air-conditioning raises the consumption, and Washington's use is down--not a lot of need for air-conditioning here, lots of times you're still wearing long underwear in June! In exchange, California is supposed to supply us with their excess power in winter. (a deal our previous governors were all adamantly and publicly against, but our current Gov. Gary Locke quietly inked while no one was looking) Well, California decided it needed it's power this winter, and is not holding up it's end of the deal. For whatever reason, the feds backed them up, and they are not sending any. Add to that the fact that we are WAY behind on rainfall, so the rivers are down, the unusually cold weather, the Christmas lights, etc., and we have a shortage. What I haven't figured out is how does making you pay more create more power? In Spokane, the Kaiser Aluminum plant has "layed off" it's employees temporarily, at 70% pay, because they can make more money (millions) by selling their power, insead of using it and producing their product. Like I said, it's complicated. About 10 years ago California wanted to build a pipeline and take water from the Columbia River, when their water shortage was severe. Gov. Mike Lowry basically said "over my dead body!" The same reaction he had to this power idea. Some are now concerned that Gary Locke will give away the water, too. There is an emergency "Energy Summit" of 5 governors meeting in Denver right now, and Gary Locke is demanding an investigation into price gouging and "hoarding" of power. The energy commission has just announced that we MUST continue to supply California with power for at least the next week even though we have our own shortage. What's up with that? Kathie

-- Kathie in Western Washington (twinrosefarm@worldnet.att.net), December 20, 2000.

I live in california and I get a little Irritated when you put us all in a group, all californians are not wastefull[ or flacks]so stop your bigotry.I am lucky we bought a older home but the former owners had P G E come in and insulate it so even though there is 5 of us [ 2 teenagers] our bill with new rates was only 125.00. We dont get dangerously cold so I think the power should go to coldest states first.Maybe the high rates will be a incentive for ALL STATES and PEOPLE to find ways to conserve.Calfornia [especialy the bay area] is headed for a lot of problems, the cheapest apartments in this area are going for 900.00 for 2 bed rooms. unless housing prices go down you will see a lot more people becoming homeless.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), December 20, 2000.

Much of the power goes to neon lights in Las Vegas, oops, you mean they kept that part out?

-- Kathy (catfish@bestweb.net), December 20, 2000.

I know this is a serious subject, but Craig and Green are crackin me up! The connected wind turbines and the southern stereotypes, can't help it, it was funny! (and I'm southern). Thanks guys, for the much needed laugh.

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), December 20, 2000.

Unfortunately, stereotypes exist for a reason, this doesn't mean that everyone fits them. IMHO I wait until a person proves they're a jerk on their own merit before I relegate them into a file.

The question of Las Vegas is a great one. Las Vegas is the thing all environmentalists should be protesting. It has no sustainability and no intrinsic value. A great big sucker of energy and resources. yes, it generates revenue, but it's a sad judgement on humanity that it's thriving. What if they cut half the exterior lights on the casinos and sent that off to Cali? Would tourism suffer?

What if they instituted planned blackouts to conserve the power? Rotate it all around for an hour or so but have it be planned.

There are so many businesses that can't operate if the power is intermittent. Anything that uses heat and needs cool down time or has to mainain temps to stop setting. My business couldn't operate with intermittent power.

Kirk, I agree with you....big time recession. Yippeee!!!! Y2k at last. oh bother. I think it won't hit quickly, a slow demise maybe....maybe.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), December 21, 2000.

Y2k indeed. We lost power this morning for another 2 hour session. (Third time in approximately a week.) Just in time to get all the candles going, get the fire stoked, wait until daylight to feed the animals and chop firewood, and then the power came on. Even with the huge windstorm we just had, the fact that the power was off from 5:55 a.m. to 8:00 seems rather convenient, don't you think?

We are expecting up to 60 mph winds again tonight. Goodbye power. I still haven't dragged the genset out of the corner of the garage. Our 1000 gal water tank got drained last week b/c the outlet valve froze and cracked (cheap PVC and we forgot to insulate it. It's fixable, but no rain predicted for a while to refill it!) Where are those water jugs?? I have boxes of stuff stacked up on the cookstove b/c I haven't used it for a few months. Time to get out the Y2k stuff and get organized again. This is going to be a weird winter, I can tell. Also, I have gone through about half our hay already b/c the ground has been frozen off and on for a month already. I can't wait to find out the spot price of hay these days.

Oh well. Signing off, as it's still blowing. Hope you are safe and warm. I know the country is having some hellacious weather. I'm going to split a ton of kindling today!!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 21, 2000.

I read on last week's news that two factories in King and Pierce counties (metro) closed because of inability to afford the high electicity rates. Many more are following suit.

So, it is okay for 1,000s of Washingtonians to be unemployed because of California's power shortage? So-Cal needs to repent from it's mass consumption of the world's resources and learn to live like the rest of us.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), December 21, 2000.

Let's see, people in California need 20,000 feet of living space. There are already laws for wasting natural resorces, all they have to do is inforce them. Why 2 people need such large homes is beyond my comprehension, wasting energy to heat and cool these large homes is a waste and government needs to step back and address this problem.

-- hillbilly (internethillbilly@hotmail.com), December 21, 2000.

The ignorance and bigotry of so many people on this forum is very disheartening, to say the least.

First of all, since the 1970's there have been no power facilities developed in California, but enormous migration from the EASTERNERS and others has created a mass deficit in availability of power, which -yes, thanks to greedy and near-sighted California politicians- has reached the nth hour, and now we are scrambling to avoid catastrophe.

The people on this forum seem to assume that this is mostly, if not entirely due to the wastefulness of Californians. The fact is that this is due primarily to the inability of regional governments to commit resources when the migration trend of EASTERNERS was well established. 20 years ago my cousin and I were astonished, when visiting New York, to note the extreme wastefulness of their water, and their recyclable materials. And now to hear us denigrated for being what "you all" are is laughable!

People from evry city, town and county from where every one of you live have been moving to our beautiful land for ages. Once, they were "you", but as soon as they change their drivers license they become hateful California people, who are ALL rich Hollywood types, of course.

I hope you are happy in your self-righteous little worlds because, exposed to any sense of perspective, I doubt you'd see youselves as quite so big. The fact is that the world is much bigger than you are, many cultures exist with no one culture or religion being more "right" than another. And the same goes even more so for people divided by state lines because of the fact that people are mobile. So much of the water waste here, for example, is because of people coming from somewhere else who want to grow exactly what they grew where they grew up.

I guess you really could say that many here are wasteful in that case, but I know few of them, and I didn't grow up here that way, nor did any native Californians I know. It just burns me to hear us callously tossed off as wastrels when the most heinous ones are very likely ones who would be just as selfish if they were back where they came from in your neck of the woods, but who stand out here by way of banding together!

Good grief, I've never spoken this harshly or even thought this harshly, but I honestly didn't realize that such prejudice existed. Maybe I'll cool down and regret this, but I doubt it.

-- Leslie A. (lesliea@home.com), December 22, 2000.

Leslie: point made - but tell me please who are the "natives" of California???? It seems to be the whole of Western Civilization considers themselves the "natives" of where ever they happen to steal from the true natives of the land. Conquer, OWN, destroy and Blame!!! Seems like a real pattern to me. God Bless- diane in michigan

-- Diane Green (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 22, 2000.

When did the Easteners start moving in mass to CA? You go to LA and all you see is folks from south of the boarder. One heck of a lot of Californians are moving to other western states to escape this very perceived problem. (Unfortunately they are bring their culture with them.)

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), December 22, 2000.

Hey! Just to clear something up. This is what I wrote:

"btw, I don't really have a stereotype of Californians other than they are *usually energetic and imaginative* (my asterisks). I have lots of friends who live in CA, mostly northern. But I also happen to know folks in L.A. who consume vast amounts of energy "because it's there" or something. And I would resent them using power unwisely. No offense intended here. Just additional $.02..."

My intention was to say that I have wonderful friends in CA, mostly northern. I also have FRIENDS that live in Pasadena, (these are specific people, not people in the "general" sense) who, when I have visited previously on several occasions, have a teevee on in one room, the stereo on in another, a radio on in the kitchen, etc. They weren't watching/listening and didn't even notice!! So my protest is about my *specific* friends who have no clue about using power. They probably have a few friends who behave like that too. Maybe so, maybe not.

If that came across as prejudiced, hateful, or however it's perceived, I didn't plan to. btw, my commentary about wasteful consumption of power very often is directed toward people in CITIES, in general. So I guess that's my prejudice. I went to a Christmas party in Seattle last night, and driving through the whole length of the city, one would never know there was a power crunch on. (I know they have their own sources, but, still!)

btw, I would bet that folks out there think all of us folks in Western WA are a bunch of tree hugging socialists, too. I'm sure there are perceptions of people everywhere that are, shall we say, exagerations! Just how it is....

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 22, 2000.

Sheepish, you said "I'm sure there are perceptions of people everywhere that are, shall we say, exagerations! Just how it is.... "

Agree. How about this one: The thinner your skin - the more guilty of whatever you are denying.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), December 22, 2000.

"The thinner your skin - the more guilty of whatever you are denying."

So, does that mean if one denies something and one has thin skin, then one is guilty?

I know *I* am pretty dense! Can you please elaborate a bit? thx!!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 22, 2000.

JLS, I respectfully disagree with you. Having been called a communist by a less than observant individual on a long ago thread I can attest to the fact that when you are accused of something that is completely opposite of whhat you are it chaps your hide a bit.

Leslie, *unfortunately* there are a lot of jerks in Cali. There's a larger population and the entertainment industry seems to breed them. There are a lot of nice people as well. I miss the nice ones I used to hang with and thank God I don't have to deal with the jerks daily. I lived in the Valley for six years....I am glad I left. You probably are too! >:)- my first emoticon....he has a goatee.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), December 22, 2000.

As a native of California, I can honestly say that all Californians are not Jerks, but California has been sucked down the tube with the idea that government and government interference can solve everyone's problems. The result of this is so much regulation of everything that it makes it hard to move in that state unless you get the signature of the local beaurocrats. Californians have caused this problem through the sixty million laws they have made. Unfortunately it artificially bosts the economy, which draws more and more people, which use more and more power. The problem is that all these people jump in the pool and are soon to find out there is a bottom the hard way. in 1991 California and the rest of the country went through a huge recession, directly caused by a growth boom, based in state and county laws that artificially increased property values. I unfortunately chose that moment to go into Real Estate. these laws have not been changed, and that recession was just the tip of the iceberg. California is headed for some real trouble and this is only the beginning of sorrows. If you ask me it would behoove every California homesteader to get off the grid ASAP. I firmly believe that state is headed for a major economic breakdown. Possibly the biggest cause will be the inability of the younger generation to establish businesses and buy homes. This is already occurring, and as the population gets older and the younger people cannot afford to produce an income, there will be farm more people on SSI and very few able to start businesses. Combine this with the fact that our publ;ic schools are churning out people who couldn't care less and can't read and you spell real problems for Californians. I firmly believe that rural areas will suffer less than the urban areas, but this is coming folks and there ain't a congressman that can stop it. The only salvation would be a return to unfettered Capitalism and individualism. Given that so many are decieved Right here on this forum as to what all this regulation causes, I doubt that is likely.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), December 22, 2000.

My son is in the Armystationed at Ft Irwin in Death Valley. I calld them yesterday morning and they were sitting in the dark in the midst of a blackout. The house wasn't that cold and it only lasted about 4 hours, but it makes me mad that our servce men and women are treated lke that.

-- Martha Matthews (marthafromwa@webtv.com), December 25, 2000.

I think it's a damned shame that everybody has sunk to attacking each other based on their state of residence (of all things)!

If you base your perception of California of what you see coming out of Hollywood, no wonder you've got a weird impression.

Lots of the reasons cited, however, are true. We are using a whole lot of power for very questionable reasons.

I personally think there are two other reasons for the "energy" crisis, which have yet to be mentioned.

First, as I understand it, from reading various news reports, the two main Calif. power companies, PGandE and SoCal Edison, are unable to raise their (retail) rates, due to "deregulation". Since the retail rates are staying relatively low, in most parts of the states, the people of Calif haven't reduced their consumption, as they would if the rates skyrocketed.

Meanwhile, their PARENT companies, the retailers, (which I understand are not only from Texas, but at least one of which [ENRON] was George Dubya Bush's biggest campaign doner) are NOT prohibited from raising the wholesale rates. The result is that they are making UNPRECEDENTED profits--many, many times as much as the aleged losses suffered by the two retailers.

These huge companies couldn't have it better. It's a capitalist's wet dream. And who gets the blame? The poor Californians.

The second cause of the problem is that we are growing, growing, growing, folks. Please take a look at a cool site on controlling this growth: www.agoregon.org I think you may be pleasantly surprised at the possibilities you'll find here (except for maybe Doreen and Little Bit, whom I would ask to NOT visit this site, for their own sense of well being...

JOJ

-- jumpoffjoe (jumpoff@echoweeb.net), February 13, 2001.

I think that people need to look at what is really happening here. If you think that we can not go with out power then you all are stupid. Think of all those years that they lived off lanterns and the only heat they had was a wood stove. Now with the here in Oregon being in dangered that is a big deal. This is what a lot of people live off of for the year. My family goes sishing and that is what we eat three meals out of the week. Because some people can not live with out a tv or a radio for a day or two is stupid. My father lived through the depressiona nd he says that this is nothing compared to the depression and that livign a day with out electricity isnt bad. Please people be respectful of others. There are the people out there that need the electricity for the dairy farms, fish hatcheries and other productive business thatprovide us our food. Take a day or two and go with out the things you think you need everyday like the tv. YOu never know that one day could help stop this problem.

-- Missy (mamgolf@hotmail.com), May 14, 2001.

If the energy crisis was truely a concern to the govt they would start doing useful things about it, like building homes and office buildings with solar panels and the like. We saw a great program on the Discovery channel last week on solar power. Really caught dh's interest. They had solar panels the size of roof shingles, pretty neat.

Conservation is just a good line the govt likes to talk but they really have no intention of conserving anything because they can't keep the utility companies and the unions happy at the same time. Comsumers are last on the list.

I am a So Cal gal and think it is unneccessary for most of the homes to even have AC. It dosen't get that hot here and if it does we find that our ceiling fans do just fine.

Last week my daughter and I helped with a garden tour for the Ladies Club and all the houses but one had their AC on. It was just over 80 and a beautiful day, no need for AC. But we hace convinced everyone that the minute the temp goes over 75 the AC needs to come on.

I say, save it for those states that freeze in winter.

By the way what the hell did everyone do before AC and heat. Seems to me that survival is possible without them, at least here in So Cal.

-- jennifer (schwabauer@aol.com), May 14, 2001.

-- (noneofyour@biz.com), July 13, 2001