I have a 4 yr. old Togg. doe that has two kids on her. We had not been milking her. then we noticed that her bag is quite enlarged and hard. She is eating fine and acting fine but seems to want to eat more than usual. She's on grass hay some alfalfa and COB. When we attempt to milk her very little comes out. We've given her 3cc of Pen vk twice a day for the last two days just in case it's mastitis. Thanks for any help!

-- Michelle Holbrook (holbrook@terragon.com), July 06, 2001

Answers

How long ago did she kid? sometimes does will get what is called udder edma or swelling right after kidding, which is a hard udder and little milk. Hot compresses and massaging will stimulate her to soften and make milk. I recently had a doe with a similar problem recently. I did that and rubbed Vicks vapo rub on it 3 x's a day, weorked great. Is the udder hot? It may be a sign of mstitis.

Have you had her tested for CAE or know if she has it?

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), July 07, 2001.

My doe's kids are 4 weeks old. She has not been tested for CAE but she came from a CAE free herd. Her udder is not hot just swollen.

-- michelle (holbrook@terragon.com), July 07, 2001.

A hard udder, not hot.........sorry this really screams CAE to me. How are the kids doing??? Are they healthy and getting enough milk?? Hope that I am wrong. Let us know.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), July 07, 2001.

Michelle, I posted my previous post and then went out for a while and was thinking perhaps you would think me harsh. I just feel so badly when people buy animals from "CAE Free" herds and find major disappointment. IMHO I would never buy from someone making that statement unless I knew a whole lot about them and their goat keeping program. I have been keeping goats for many years and would not make that statement about my herd. I would tell them when I was last tested, that I raised every kid on pasturized milk, that I attended every birth to the point I was obsessive about it, that each doe was isolated after birthing until no bleeding etc. etc. etc. Would I ever say I had a CAE free herd. NO!!! Until we know more about this disease I think I would be foolish to say that. It's like AIDS, a retro virus that is evolving and unpredictable. We can just do the best that we can do and hope we are spared the disease. I think many people SAY they are CAE free because they really believe it and that they don't know enough about the disease. I sincerely hope that this is not the problem with your doe, but I just have to say what I believe.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), July 07, 2001.

"We had not been milking her." At about this time of her lactation she starts producing lots of milk, especially if she comes from a good milking line. Most good dairy goats supply lots, like a quart or more of extra milk, than 2 little kids will need. The milk has engorged the udder and it is now swollen (edema) She could eaisly have colostrum up inside clogging it also. The only thing you can do is to massage the udder perhaps 3 times a day and milk it out. Oxytocin, which is an injection you can get from the vet, will let her milk down and also will help some. The amount of Penicillin you are giving her is only enough for a 50 pound goat, surely she is larger than that. Most 300,000 unit penicillins are dosed at 3cc per 50 pounds and twice daily. Why are you using penicillin if her udder isn't hot? Masitis is not just an engorged udder, it is nasty milk, hot udder, fever, feeling off, certainly not eating as good as you say your doe is. I would have some blood taken by the vet to see if you are dealing with CAE, which presents with a hard udder full of no milk, but......when we see this in does it is the day they kid, the kids would have been unthrifty and dead from no colostrum or milk, quite literally when a doe of a friend of mine came down with this, her udder was beautiful, full and I only could get about 10cc of colostrum out of both sides. No amount of massaging could get the udder down, or anything out of it. I would treat her for edema. Like Bernice said Vic's Vapor Rub is great for massaging. Mega doses of people Vitamin C is another remedy. Are the kids still nursing and having full tummys? If she is a big girl, she also could have fat in her udder, lots of does who are kidded out later than 17 months or so, and are feed till fat, can deposit fat in their udder, which also makes them look like they have a full udder. I would stop the penicillin, not using antibiotics unless necessarry. Using to little and when you don't need it is the reason we have antibiotic resistance. If the head you purchased her from is honest, than they would have this dams CAE negative status, if they are not ELISA tests than you need to test your goats.

From now on when your does kid, let them nurse for about 8 hours, then go in and strip all the colostrum out, pur it in the freezer for an emergency. On your good milkers you will need to empty them at least once a day, until the kids are bigger and drinking that much milk, it could be 2 or 3 weeks. You have to remember if your doe has any good breeding behind her at all, she is not genetic able to produce milk for just 2 kids, and even then 2 kids don't need to be sharing 8 to 12 pounds of milk even when they are older. With the heat here in Texas, full tummys of milk like this in the hot sun is the reason summer kids come down with FKS.. saanendoah.com is a great site with lots of great info, I think everyone should download joyces site, place in a three ring binder and use this very good information for their goat bible! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 07, 2001.

This is a follow up. My doe's kids are healthy and strong with no other symptoms. I took her and my other does to the vet to get tested for CAE and the vet said that it is a possibility but he doesn't think that's the case. He told me to keep massaging her udder. I have and I also tryed the Vix vapor rub and it seems to be helping. The results will be back in about a week so I'll keep you posted.

-- michelle (holbrook@terragon.com), July 11, 2001.

He wouldn't sell you any oxytocin? Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 11, 2001.

UPDATE*** The vet didn't mention it and I'm not sure I know what it is.

-- michelle (holbrook@terragon.com), July 12, 2001.

Oxytocin is the naturally occuring hormone that brings down milk production and keeps labor active. You can give a doe a small shot of this and it will bring her milk down, something that need to be done if this is congestion. I might have already posted this but vitamin C is supposed to be good for udder congestion also. Just the human kind. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 13, 2001.