GUNS ON THE HOMESTEAD

If your new to homesteading or an old hand your sure to run into a varmint now and again. Now the question is how do you handle it? Well we use several tools. A 22 caliber semi-auto rifle, a 12-guage shot gun and a 38-special pistol. For rattle snakes, copperheads and water moccasins we use the shot gun or the 38 with shot shells. Foxes and Raccoons usually takes the 22-rifle because them are fast little buggers.

It’s been debated since Sam Colt put out the Peacemaker whether or not Guns were a good thing or something evil. Well lets put that discussion to rest. Their Neither. GUNS ARE TOOLS Always have been. Kids on the prairie and out on the farms typically used guns by the time they were 12. Sometimes younger. And it weren’t always boys. Annie Oakley comes to mind.

Ok so what type and caliber do you need? Good Question. I’d have to ask you what you intended to do with it? Hunting? (what?) Rabbits, squirrels, foxes, raccoons? 22 LR semi-auto rifle A clean kill and if you choose to eat it Your doing what our forefathers did. OK larger game Deer? Traditionally 30/30 rifle Now days most any of the 30 caliber or bigger will suffice. BEARS? Are you crazy. Grease and lard is much safer to hunt.

OK gang if you have a particular question ask me. I know a good bit about firearms. NOT EVERYTHING, but some One thing though if you ask I’m going to give you my honest opinion not the pc answer.

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), June 20, 2001

Answers

Dear Kenneth. Do you hand load for for some of the larger calibars? If so what are your pet loads?

-- Tom Orsborn (tkorsborn@cs.com), June 20, 2001.

Would you recommend a shotgun for home defense? I have a little 22 rifle, a little 38 and a 9mm Baretta but was wondering about the old saw "if you have one, you probably won't need to use it". Makes sense to me! Would you have a suggestion as to a good type of shotgun for a retired lady, not too strong but not a bad shot, not a good one either! :-) The only trouble as far as varmits I might have would be Homo sapiens, I've learned to get along with critters a long time ago. Thanks, Little Quacker

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), June 20, 2001.

Quacker your pistols are great choices, but they are precision(relatively) tools. mossberg makes a "ladies home companion" 410 pump shotgun. loaded with the heaviest commercial birdshot or the lightest buckshot and it will hurt two legged varmints pretty good. if you can handle it winchester makes a youth model 20 gauge pump. last i looked the mossberg went for under 250 and the winchester might hit 300

-- Pops (cindy556@devil-dog.com), June 20, 2001.

TOM I usually buy my ammo from Gun-Pro Products. I've reloaded some 38's and 357's but not any rifle ammo. For large game I use pumpkin balls in the 12-guage or my SKS (7.62x39) using flat nosed lead ammo.

Little Quacker I recommend a 38-special snub pistol as the BEST Home Defense gun. Its almost impossible to be disarmed. We have two 38-snubs. My wife chooses her first round to be a 38/357 snake shot thereby eliminating the chance of missing the first shot on the 2-legged vermin or occasional wild dog. I choose a 158 grain jacket hollow-point round. I have tried 10 different brands of ammunition and found the Pro-Gun Products ammo to be the most accurate in my 38-snub. I can usually hit tennis ball size targets at 65 feet 4 out of 5 times with my snub. Technically anything over 7 yards (21 feet) is considered illegal.

I'd have to agree with POPS on the 410 pump. Something you might not know in a 410 single barrel you (open choke) can shoot 45 long colt pistol ammo. This makes for a enjoyable day of plinking.

We have tried 12 and 20 gauge shot guns both are not pleasent to shoot. However you can still get a 12-gauge at Wal-Mart for $79.99.

I've owned over the past 30 years most all calibers of handguns. My favorite is my High Standard Double Nine 22 LR. I'd trust it any time. But in the dark, with an unknown vermin, I'll stick to the 38- snub.

AS WITH ANY WEAPON..Practice, Practice, Practice. I'd trust my 70 year old neighbor with his 32-short more than I'd trust a newbie with a 15-shot Glock 9 m/m. Well placed shots and keeping a cool head in a dangerous situation is paramount to your safety and well being.

Hope this helps.

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), June 20, 2001.

Will the bold turn off now?

-- Max (Maxel@inwindsor.com), June 20, 2001.

In my opinion, the best thing for home defense against an intruder inside the house is a shotgun. Aim does not have to be so precise. Think about it. You've just been woken up by the sound of a door or window breaking in. You can't find your glasses, the whole house is dark, and Bubba is coming at you down the hallway. A shotgun will stop him in his tracks, but you'll probably end up having to repaint the walls.

-- Skip Walton (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), June 20, 2001.

I have several guns, handguns & rifles. In the 2-3 years that I've lived out in the country, the only one I have ever used is my .410 shotgun and that for snakes and possoms. Even if an intruder were foolish enough to trespass on this land, the .410 would still be best. After thinking it over, I don't think anyone would want to kill someone else unless it was absolutely necessary to defend your life. Many would probably disagree with me but the more guns I have around, the safer I feel. Eagle even though you can't shoot more than one at a time.

-- eagle (eagle@alpha1.net), June 21, 2001.

Another consideration for home defense is the sound factor. . . What often gets glossed over in the tv/movie industry is that firing a gun in a confined space such as a home or car is LOUD! Really loud, like permanent hearing damage loud. Handguns fired in confined spaces, especially the more powerful rounds like .40 S&W, 9MM Parabellum, .357 Magnum, would be very hard on the hearing, police officers report extreme trauma to their hearing. Wear plugs when your out practicing; your grandchildren will thank you later in life.

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), June 21, 2001.

Forgot to say something earlier . . . a very useful gun on the homestead is the combination rifle/shotgun. This is basically a longarm with two barrels, allowing the person to choose if they need a shotgun or rifle round. Savage is our lone (to my knowledge) domestic manufacturer of this type of firearm. A .22lr/20 gauge is extremely useful; you go out looking for rabbit, come back with quail. No need to carry two firearms.

They also manufacture a 12 gauge / 30/30 model for big game season. Buckshot or a slug load can come in handy in a single firearm. Check your state hunting laws; some states allow only shotguns for deer and that attached barrel can leave you in danger of unintentionally breaking the law.

This design also allows you to utilize barrel inserts, which are barrel sleeves sliding into the barrel and increasing versatility. Pistol rounds (very quiet in long barrels), varmint calibers, barrel inserts can't be beat. They cost about $25.00 to $100.00 per insert so be choosy.

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), June 21, 2001.

Springfield Arms makes a over/under combo. You have several options 22LR/12 22LR/20 .223/12 .223/20 and 7.62x.39/12

As far as .410 shotguns go I like the Snake Charmer. Its short and carries 5 extra rounds under the butt plate.

If a group of intruders come against you as they did Mr. Dixon in Florida I recommend a pump shotgun or a M-1 Carbine. When groups attack a home I feel that the homeowner should use every means neccessary to defend themselves.

One other TIP "SHOOT TO KILL" There are currently over 9000 court cases of "intruders" sueing homeowner's for defending themselves. In this neighborhood over 95% would lay an intruder out cold. A lot of old timers around here are vets and they don't take being robbed or attacked lightly.

{Remember these are my opinions and do not reflect the pc attitudes}

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), June 21, 2001.

Wow! Almost 100% of these posts support using a firearm to defend the homestead in a situation that warrants it. I believe this forum represents a reasonable cross-section of America. So I wonder, why aren't there any anti-gun posts to this thread?

-- Steve Nelson (alpine1@prodigy.net), June 21, 2001.

Landmines!

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), June 21, 2001.

Better?

-- William in Wi (gnarledmaw@lycos.com), June 21, 2001.

How about that?

-- William in Wi (gnarledmaw@lycos.com), June 21, 2001.

Thanks to all who answered my questions. A big help and lots of good ideas and helpful info. Even to ammo which I didn't expect. I'm not sure what politically correct means. I think lots of polititians are way out of touch with reality! Anyone who is gonna force themselves on me or my property needs good insurance! Thanks again, appreciate it. Little Quacker

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), June 22, 2001.

Hey Ken:

Thanks for the info on .45LC / .410 shotgun compatibility. I did not know that, but it makes sense. Factory loaded .45LC ammo is loaded pretty light (them way old way cool Colt SAA pistols I guess). My Savage youth .410 is full choke so I wouldn't be able to use this information on that, unless I am willing to cut the barrel, which I'm not.

A big thanks for creating this thread; it is gonna be a first stop when I log in.

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), June 22, 2001.

I guess I must jump in. I have a military background (25 years) and have been a "gun nut" since I was 10. By my latest incredibly quick mathematical calculation, that was a half century ago. I have fired pistol, rifle, and shotgun competetively for a good portion of those 50 years, and am now a rifle guy because it seems to be "fun" to me right now. I know how to use all of the aforementioned, and here is my advice. My first choice for someone who wants ONE firearm to do all things would be a 20 guage shotgun. You can use anything from #8 shot (doves, english sparrows) to slugs (deer) and most anything in between. Most 12 year olds are stout enough to handle a 20 guage, and I mean both boys and girls. A .410 is good under some circumstances, but it is an "experts" gun. Not good for the beginner. 2nd would be a good .22 LR rifle. There are many, and they are all good! Look at the used market. It is difficult to do anything to a .22 to make it deteriorate, and the used market is the way to go. My 3rd choice would be a bolt action rifle in either .243 Win or 6mm Remington. They are nearly identical, shoot the same bullet, and differ only in case capacity, which makes the 6mm a better choice for reloaders. This cartridge is excellent for anything from the maurauding fox to Mule or Whitetail deer. I have a .410 and a plethora of other arms. But the above is my best advice for someone who might be "gun-less". More advice and blatherings if you care to contact me directly. GL!

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), June 23, 2001.

Steve,

Check out the old threads regarding protecting yourself without firearms. I know there is one, cause I started it!

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), June 23, 2001.

Wow! I think I'll use bold typeface and big fonts to ward off any intruders if they ever come around here! Keep the long guns and the sidearms in the safe!!!

Just kidding, Kenneth, but that was an experience, opening up this thread!!

-- sheepish (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), June 24, 2001.

hi sheepish,

Make sure you use the "glow in the dark" great big fonts. Hmmmm maybe on a sign that reads "Protected by HTML" lol.

What firearms do you have. Not just for protection but for FUN????

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), June 26, 2001.

Neat thread!!

Presently I have a Desert Eagle "Baby Eagle" that is my "fun" gun. It just points so damn well!!!! For home defense We have a Ruger GP100 357mag loaded with Glaser safty slugs. For big game hunting (Deer and occasionally Elk) I use a Sig Sauer A200 30-06, best rifle I've owned and can do more than I'm capable of. My favorite is an old Ruger 44mag carbine that bought new years ago and still love it today. It's a sweet little thing and has never jammed on me once. For varmit control I have a Marlin semi-auto tube fed 22LR. Great possum medicine. That's a few of our arsenal who's next?

Jim Tanner

-- Jim T (Tanner_jim@hotmail.com), June 26, 2001.

Fun guns . . . okay, I can get into this one.

An all time favorite with me is my Erma-Excam RX22 pocket pistol. It is a clone of the Walther PPK and is a .22lr. It weighs about 20 oz. (factory specs.), but shoots WAY better than a little pistol should. It stays on my belt a whole lot, out of the way until needed. Just like a good handgun should.

A Savage 24C in .22lr/20 gauge is another goodie. It is very versatile when you are out "hunting for the pot". It's single shot capacity isn't a big compromise, the choice of either the rimfire round or shotgun is EXTREMELY handy.

I live in deep south Texas, so we do not have the large game animals such as elk, moose, etc. that some of you (lucky!) deal with. Our largest game is whitetail deer and feral hog, though some of the latter grow outsize models every now and again. My favorite deer rifle is an old pre-war .250 Savage carbine with a 4x Pecar scope. It isn't as light as the newer rifles, but for some reason I carry it like it was. The trigger is extremely crisp. But for only for shorter ranges, I wouldn't take a shot over 250 yards, and for this I would be hesistant without a steady rest. The .250 Savage cartridge has less velocity than the .243 or 6mm., which are considered marginal cartridges by many. But when the bullet hits the right spot, the cartridge power doesn't matter that much; where you hit them counts more than what you hit them with.

A potential goodie, although I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, is a Czech 572 carbine in 7.62x39. Short, lightweight, five shot magazine, and has a set trigger allowing very precise trigger work when needed. Cheap imported ammo should make shooting this one fun. About 30/30 power so again, not a long range wonder, but who cares; this one looks like fun too.

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), June 27, 2001.

Hey jr guerra,

Is the Czech 572 Carbine gas operated? If Yes it should be a sweet shooter. In my SKS Shorty (7.62x39) the recoil is minimal and at brush ranges (open sights) hits dead on. Here in N.C. most all terrain is brush/trees etc.

I've upgraded my pocket gun to a Beretta 32-auto Tomcat. For a "quiet" 22 pistol I have a S&W Model 43 (airweight) I use 22- shorts or CB caps Or now that AGUILA has the no powder version. There as quiet as an oldstyle BB gun. Power range about same as 10 pumps on Daisy Pumpmaster 880. You can't get much quieter than the the Aguila's.

Have a great day.

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), June 27, 2001.

Kenneth;

I havn't seen the AGUILA's before. Are they reasonable for varmit control? I realize that they wouldn't be ablr to cycle my marlin but I have an old remington pump 22 that might handle them.

Jim Tanner

-- Jim T (Tanner_jim@hotmail.com), June 27, 2001.

Hi Kenneth:

No, the carbine is a bolt job, based on a mini-Mauser 98 action. The importer name is Czech Arms, based in Kansas City. The company web site is cz-usa.com (I think). My only complaints (so far) is that extra magazines cost about $45.00 each. The factory scope rings are also expensive ($75.00) and pretty tall; the gun store owner explained that Europeans shoot with a heads up position. Never having been over there, okay but what about lower rings. One way would be to mill the bases to fit Weaver bases. So far, I'm not willing to modify a new gun that way yet. Bought Millet rings and mounted a small scope on it. The scope fits fine, it just looks . . . well . . . you know kind of strange. Other than those complaints, we'll see what happens. Oh, cost: $500 retail. About the norm nowadays. Bet Shotgun News or a favorite gun dealer can shave that down some.

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), June 27, 2001.

Hi Jim T, I wouldn't use the the Aguila no powder (.22 20-grain) for anything other than the occasional rat. They do scare crows pretty good with out bothering the neighbors. Now AGUILA makes a super accurate round called the .22LR SSS (SniperSubSonic) It has a 60 grain bullet I have been Impressed with this round. Aguila also makes a 30 grain Hiper Velocity exiting the barrel at 1750 ft/sec with 204 Ft-Pound Energy.

You might try www.cheaperthandirt.com as a resource for Aguila ammo. I haven't tried over there since our local gun shop started carrying them.

j.r. let me know how the CZ works out. Have you heard anything about the Single shot boys 7.62x39? Its supposed to be gas operated and available now in the u.s. I thought that would make a great deer rifle. Cheap to feed and easy on the old arm.

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), June 27, 2001.