Has anyone read "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight" by Thom Hartmann?

Care to comment on it? It seems like it would be a good thing for people to read either before or after they watch the "Earth on Edge" special comming up on June 19th on PBS.

-- Anonymous, June 05, 2001

Answers

I've read it but it's been long enough ago that I can't remember the details all that well. I got the book from the library so can't go back through to refresh my memory. I do have it written down on my "to buy" list, though. I guess I got something out of it to warrant putting it on that list. Sorry I couldn't offer more input, debra. :-)

BTW, a couple other books on my "to buy" list that are in the same category as Hartmann's are Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change by William Robert Catton and Geodestinies: The Inevitable Control of Earth Resources over Nations and Individuals by Walter Youngquist

I especially recommend Youngquist's book to any techno-optimists out there that think we'll simply switch to "sustainable" technologies when oil inevitably runs out. Youngquist (a retired petroleum geologist) does the math on energy input vs. energy output on things like solar panels, biodiesel, ethanol, and hydrogen. The math simply doesn't compute - all of these "renewables" are energy sinks - meaning they ultimately take more energy to produce than what you finally get out of them. If we haven't found some viable alternative(s) to petroleum by the time it runs out, we will be in some *serious* do-do. Hopefully petroleum will be available for the next 50 years in order to give us sufficient time to invent/discover *something* to get us over this massive hurdle that's looming on our horizon...

I'm including a review of the book to whet your appetite:

The issues raised and developed in GeoDestinies should be required reading for all college or university students - no matter what their majors - and discussed in high-school, college, university, media, and business seminars throughout the country. The global economic system is absolutely dependent on geologic resources for its health and survival. Serious economic and social problems will face us by the middle of the 21st century, primarily because the petroleum window for the planet, which has driven the tremendous economic growth of the past 140 years, will begin to close. Alternatives for petroleum, in all of its myriad uses, will have to be found. And, this problem is only the most obvious and immediate of our challenges.

Sustainability is the current buzzword for the future of humanity. Under what conditions, and at what quality level, can humans persist on Earth indefinitely? The question arises because of two specters that are lurking too far behind the scenes for many of us, but that need to be faced: population growth and unfettered consumption of Earth's resources.

Population growth cannot be sustained in a closed container such as "Spaceship Earth" without ultimately overwhelming the container. This mathematical truth is finally becoming recognized internationally. Current projections by international population prognosticators, based on evidence of declining birth rates, suggest that planning for a world population stabilized at about 10 billion people by 2050 may be reasonable.

If we stabilize near that number, we have only won half the battle. We then need to consider how to feed, clothe, house, entertain, and employ a population of that size. Central to this question is the source of the energy that runs our factories; lights and heats our houses, municipal buildings, and business structures; and propels our cars, trains, and airplanes. For most of the developed world, the great bulk of this energy comes from fossil fuels, particularly from petroleum.

Calculations by several independent investigators agree that in the first few decades of the 21st century, world petroleum production will peak. By the end of the century, or shortly thereafter, petroleum will be effectively lost as a major source of the world's energy. The United States is already depended on imports for more than half of its petroleum needs. What will be our energy options when the oil runs out? Can we wean ourselves from this oil dependency? What are the realistic alternatives? Also, we need to recognize that petrochemicals, from pharmaceuticals to plastics to tires, are derived from nonrenewable oil and gas and have no reasonable alternative source.

Consumer demands from an ever-growing human population threaten to deplete many other nonrenewable geologic resources; already, renewables such as water and topsoil that are essential to our agricultural well-being in many areas of the world are being stressed.

GeoDestinies is written for the intelligent layperson. The presentation of issues and alternatives is well balanced, and both illustrations and tables are clear and relevant. The writing plods a little, and information occasionally turns up in more than one chapter, but these slight imperfections shouldn't detract from the importance of the massage. Key chapters focus on the "Petroleum Interval," alternative energy sources, water and topsoil use and abuse, myths and realities of mineral resources, and sustainable utilization of Earth's resources. GeoDestinies also contains useful background chapters on how mineral resources have been used and where they are located; mineral economics; and the central importance of mineral resources to the history, growth, and development of the human enterprise. One useful chapter summarizes myths and realities, which are also dealt with in more detail elsewhere in the book. Some of the key myths are:

- alternative energy resources can readily replace oil,
- alternative energy sources are environmentally benign, and
- biomass can be a major source of liquid fuels.

This is a very important book for everybody because it lays out quite nicely the real problems we face in the next century as population and consumption catch up with the supply of key natural resources. Buy it, read it, and discuss it with your friends.

A. R. (Pete) Palmer
Institute for Cambrian Studies

-- Anonymous, June 05, 2001

Kinda freaky you should ask, I just finished the Hartmann book last night!

I dare anyone to read it and come away with the enviromental apathy of the typical citizen.

I'll get ahold of the two you're mentioning too, Jim. (I need little encouragement to buy books)

I also think we should try to provide a copy of each, and others you all might suggest, to Georgie, along with someone to read them to him, pronto.

-- Anonymous, June 06, 2001

No I haven't but thanks for mentioning it.And for giving the reminder on the PBS program,too.Now,please post another reminder on the 16th,or I won't remember!

No time to read til winter,but I'll put it on the list. Yours too,Jim.

-- Anonymous, June 06, 2001

My library has it, so I put in a request for it. Ha ha, if I like it, I'll probably HAVE to BUY a copy. Bookworm infection flaring up, ya know!

-- Anonymous, June 06, 2001

EM, I'm glad you added that part about someone being able to read it to ol' Dubya, fer sure the boy can't READ!

-- Anonymous, June 06, 2001

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the info about the books. I already had Catton's book on my "to read" list. I'll add Youngquist's also.

I was thinking that I'd really like to see your "to buy" list, and your "to read" list if you have one. Perhaps we could start a new thread and we could all share our lists. I know I have at least 300 books on my "to read" list. Most , but not all deal with some aspect of ecology or personal sustainable living.

Thanks again for the info. You don't know how much I treasure having people to share these type of topics with. I just wish I could have found you all 20 years ago!

debra in ks

-- Anonymous, June 07, 2001

Earthmama- That is wierd you had just finished Hartmann's book. Wonder if we are all developing some sort of collective consciousness here?

Loved the bit about having someone read to dumb Dubya!! Seriously though, I think it would be a good idea if someone sent it to Al. Assuming he'll run again and win, I think he would get more out of it and do more good with the info than Dubya ever would.

debra in ks

-- Anonymous, June 07, 2001

I was thinking that I'd really like to see your "to buy" list, and your "to read" list if you have one. Perhaps we could start a new thread and we could all share our lists. I know I have at least 300 books on my "to read" list. Most , but not all deal with some aspect of ecology or personal sustainable living.

My "to buy" and "to read" list are not incredibly long at this time - unlike YOUR list, debra. I just got a big influx of books from the library so I'm working my way through them to see if any qualify for the "to buy" list. A lot of those books deal with creating zen gardens so I don't know if you'd be interested in that sort of thing.

But I do like your idea of a thread discussing what we're all reading or planning on reading. I had been thinking of starting a thread on just this subject so I guess great minds think alike eh, debra? ;-)

Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now to start the thread seeing that relatives are visiting us. But you or anyone else is free to start the thread and I'll contribute to it when I get back to the computer. Or I can start the thread when I'm done entertaining the relatives - which should be over with by Sunday evening.

And, having said all that, I'm now off to entertain the "rellies" - wish me luck...

P.S.- It's nice to have you here, too. But if you would have found me 20 years ago I would have only been 15 years old. I don't think I would have been much interest to talk to at the time, though. Like a fine wine, I get better and better with age. ;-D

-- Anonymous, June 07, 2001

JIM!! Zen gardens? No way! Really? Well, sorry, bro, in my book you do not qualify for that 'conservative' label you alluded to on an earlier post. I am as we speak bowing down to your *liberalness* of mind to be so interested in such open, mindbending philosophies.

In my meanderings through Buddhist thought, I have come to the conclusion,at least for now, that Zen Buddhism is definitely not ME (too disciplined); but I LOVE meditating in zenlike gardens: find them unbelievably peaceful and spiritually enlightening, and I cant wait to design some like that in my new place .....perhaps diane can add stuff here cuz I sure aint no expert.

Anyway, Jim, have a good time with you rellies, and we love you!

-- Anonymous, June 07, 2001

I'm finding that I *love* zen gardens too, earthmama. I'll be listing some of the books I've found on the subject in a new thread soon. Let me know if you've run across any books on the subject and what you may have thought of them.

As for the 'conservative' label, it's not something I call myself. It's a label put on me by others (a small minority thankfully) who only focus on a tiny subject without looking at the whole person.

I consider myself *much* too eclectic to be labled into any one group or mindset... :-)

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Well, isn't eclectic a label in itself? {running away quickly now!}

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Yeah, eclectic is a label allrighty, and one I hold dear; but Jim did say something about a 'mindset', and that cant describe us, cuz most of us lost our minds years ago anyhow!

Welcome back, Jim! How was it with the rellies?

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

LOL!

Joy:

O.K., O.K., ya got me - I can't get anything past you, can I? :-D

Earthmama:

The reunion with the rellies went pretty good - better than expected, actually. Most of the reunion was held at Ruth's sister's house in Edina and their house happens to be right under one of the flight paths of the airport so it tended to be a bit noisy outside. Whenever I got tired of the jets flying overhead or needed a break from the rellies, I'd go in the house and watch a little television. But for the most part it was an enjoyable get-together - I guess after 17 years they're finally getting used to me and I'm finally getting used to them...

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

I picked up the book at the library and have started on it. More later, but I suspect I'll be getting copies and giving them to people!

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001