Last evening I tried to disbud the horns on a 2 week old buck kid.After it was finished, he was crying all night and still crying this morning.He hasn't eatin since.I've only disbudded 5 goats,all this year,I ,m new at this and had it done by a friend in the past.Now I notice it smells bad like it,s rotting.The others I disbudded were playing a 1/2 hour after they were disbudded but this one I know I did something wrong to.I was wondering if I should use the iron on the horn area again to stop the infection.Please reply soon thanks. Steve

-- SM Steve (a12goat@cs.com), June 01, 2001

Answers

If you think it is an infection use a topical antibiotic, do not use the disbudding iron again. If the disbudding iron was applied too long damage to bone and brain tissue may have resulted.(Different disbudding irons heat to different temperatures, follow the directions for your brand and TIME the period of contact with a watch.) I would recommend contacting your more experienced friend or a vet.

-- Nancy Bakke-McGonigle Mn. Sunset (dmcgonig@smig.net), June 01, 2001.

We usually do our kids at around 3-4 days old. Just when you begin to feel their little horns coming out. ALSO, did you give a tetnaus shot to the kids before disbudding ?? This should always be done for prevention. I would pack him up in the car and drive down to the local farm vet for treatment. Probably give you an antibiotic. Clean the disbudding iron with a little steel wool between kids and wipe off. How long did you hold the iron on ?? Hubby does ours about 10 to 15 SECONDS. Have heard of people putting ice on the disbudded horns afterwards but usually they just want to get back to their Momma's after it is done. Good Luck !! (let us know how you make out with the kids)

-- Helena Di Maio (windyacs@ptdprolog.net), June 01, 2001.

The dis budding iron is a Lenk 200 w , I used it for 10 seconds.The only thing I did different then the other kids was I didn't shave the hair around the horn bud.I also noticed that the ring on the others when done was a goldern tan.The ring around the horn buds on this buck were still part black.I think that I didn't leave the iron on long enough.I thought maybe when it's left on long enough it burns the nerves that cause the pain,and because I didn't leave it on long enough the nerves are just damaged leaving the poor fellow in severe pain.that's why I asked if I should use the Iron again.He was crying to the point of his voice is horse.I'm waiting on a call from the one who taught me to disbud.She's wasn't home .I might find from her that I'm over reacting from the guilt of hurting the kid and it isn't as bad as it seems.I used an antibiotic topical Thanks, Steve

-- SM Steve (a12goat@cs.com), June 01, 2001.

Unless you get the copper ring all the way around, the disbudding won't work. I'd be inclined toward trying again. (BTW 10 days is a little on the long side for a buck usually, but I don't think it is too late if you get that copper ring.) If his horn buds are on the tough side, you might want to have some blood stop powder or something on hand just in case.

-- mary, in colorado (marylgarcia@aol.com), June 01, 2001.

Steve, you do need to have the copper ring all the way around, with a buck kid that age a little white wouldn't hurt (like so you could see a little separation there) When doing that old especially think about how much heat is trapped under that bud. Take your fingernail and pop that "cap" right off and then spray with bluecote. Works very well for me, kids are happier faster and I never have scurs.

-- diane (gardiacaprine@yahoo.com), June 02, 2001.

Thanks all for the help.The little buck a (Nubian)is doing a lot better today and eating.One horn bud didn't get enough iron time and it swelled up with liquid like a blister with puss.It starting to dry up and doesn't smell rotten today .It still to sensitive to do over right now.I'll wait a few days and do it again.Disbudding is something I find hard getting use to.But after seeing what a grown buck with horns can to to a persons leg ,I'll force myself. Thanks again ,Steve

-- SM Steve (a12goat@cs.com), June 02, 2001.

Glad to hear the kid is doing better. Since this is a buck kid, have you considered doing a figure eight burn? Helps even more to prevent scurs and does help get rid of some of the scent glands.

-- Nancy Bakke-McGonigle Mn. Sunset (dmcgonig@smig.net), June 02, 2001.

I will try the figure 8 burn and try to get his sent glands when I finish doing the horn bud I didn't do right.I just sold a buck that was done this way, he was a year and a half old and he had almost no odor.Althuogh he did need to be away from the does ,cause he still affected the taste of their milk.

-- SM Steve (a12goat@cs.com), June 02, 2001.

I wouldn't be waiting on re-disbudding. The infection that is between the layers of skin and the hair you "glued" into the head isn't going away. Make sure your iron is very hot before you even get started. With only the 200 you are talking about 30 minutes of heating time at least. If the horn buds are already up and showing than take your hoof trimmers and very quickly cut them off at head level, hit the bleeder with the side of your iron. Then start you 10 second burn, pick out all the hair on the head, clean the iron, and pop the cap off. Now.....you are going to burn the head. The first burn does nothing more than clean hair, kill skin, and give you a loosened cap. The second burning is when you burn into and through the horns root to kill it. The kid is in pain from a burn not a disbudding, he wouldn't be in pain if you disbud again, burning through to the root, he will have no pain, because it kills the nerves. You can eaisly see that disbudding isn't painful afterwards, by holding the kid. Most kids being held to disbud scream as much before they get it done as they do afterwards, of course during the beginning burn it is painful. Banamine is very good for pain, you can give it about 1 hour before you are going to disbud. Like others our kids are up and boucing off the walls after they have been disbudded. I use a Rhinehart 50, with Nubian multiples we have a better head on the kid, waiting to disbud at about 2 weeks. With the smaller irons you need to be disbudding about day 3. I use any aresol spray on my kids both as an antiseptic but also to cool the head quickly. I love the idea of the zip lock baggie filled with ice to set on their head, but with husband disbudding and me giving shots, doesn't give us a chance to use this. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), June 03, 2001.

Thanks Vickie,I thought I should burn them again but wasn't sure of myself and was hoping you'd responed,I also got a call early this morning from the one who taught me to disbud and she told me the same, to finish disbudding as soon as possible.Thanks ,Nancy,Helena,Mary and Diane for you helping advice and concern I'm grateful to ya all, Steve

-- SM Steve (a12goat@cs.com), June 03, 2001.

Vicki, you didn't say if the second burn is 10 seconds also. Another full 10 seconds? Thanks.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@hotmail.com), June 03, 2001.

It all depends on the iron. Years back we used a copper fitting on a big soldering iron of my husbands. It did a good job, but you had to leave it on a very long time. With the Rhinehart 50, by the time you are doing kid 5 or 6 you are leaving it on just a few seconds to get your last copper ring. I think most men push to hard and do that digging down and around thing. I simply press it on the head, the only exurtion at all is holding the iron from slipping and burning me or an ear of the kid! Most disbudding irons are simply to small in diameter to cleanly burn bucklings with no scurs. We have replaced our tip with a 3/4inch copper fitting, it goes around the horn bud, which leaves no scurs. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), June 04, 2001.