I have some unfortuante news. We have been homesteading for 3 years now. We started out on a half acre and were able to produce some of our own food via garden and rabbits. We built a log cabin to acompany out living quarter (77 mobile home). Then we moved to a larger homestead in another part of the state (North Carolina). We then homesteaded on 4 acres. We, in just one year here, built a pasture, a rabbit shelter (25X20) out of scrap wood, continued a home based business, put in a 50 X 25 garden by hand using a shovel and our backs, hunted for meat- we only buy bacon and chicken in small quanities now, lowered the electricity bill from 100 bucks a month to 14, installed a wood stove, refurbished the house, built a campsite with cooking area and pallet shelter, built a composter, got 100 percent free of the gas company, and planted trees, berry bushes, etc. In other words, we have been busy homesteading and working 40 hr. week jobs (winter time) and running our business in the fair weather seasons. Plus raising a two year old daughter But... and there is always a but... it appears that we will lose it all, except for what we can carry out in the van and trailer. From there, who knows. You see, when we first got the mobile home and 1/2 acre, we entered an agreement with my parents that we would rent for 1 to 2 years before taking over loan as we had basically no credit. At that time, the loan was for 25,000, a seven year loan at a very decent interest rate. Payments were 300 a month and would be applied directly to loan. No problem. When we moved to new homestead, after making all the payments in a fairly reasonable time (ok, we may have been a few days late a time or two, but they always got their money, that was for sure), the loan was now for 56,000. Payments went up. The trailer and 1/2 acre was sold- this was not my doing- at a huge loss. In other words, whatever we had done to improve property (log cabin/ shed, gravel in drive, etc etc.) plus all the payments and over payments (we paid 400 when we could) went up in smoke. But we took it in stride... after all, we were getting a real live 4 acre place with a house to homestead! Well, we have not ever missed a payment on this house and property. But, things have been super tight, really have had to scrimp and save to get by. We have been a week late on payments since august. The money does find its way there, just 1 week late. Well, my father is about to get laid off from his job. They (my parents) have ridden our backs every month- generally it starts 1 week before "rent" is due. They bought a huge house on a golf course, electricity bills are 400 bucks, they lead well off lives. Thats their thing and I don't mess with them about it. Yet they often "drop by" and proceed to pick on every aspect of the homestead- the wood stove is a mess with wood chips on the floor, the grass needs mowed, the rabbit shed is ugly, the car is leaking oil, cut your hair, etc. We can often not afford to buy groceries (not that we absolutely need to)... do they think I trully care about the lawn (I like it high anyways!). Things came to a head this evening. I owned my own business last year. I made fairly good money at times, lost my rump a time or two. I decided, after working all winter at a 40 hr a week job, that I made better moneyat the business and I was much happier working for myself. Wife got to work with me, more time at home, got to travel, etc. They (parents) learned that I am quitting 40 hr a week job to go back to business (not dealing drugs or something stupid- selling auto parts wholesale, legitiment business). They called and said that they were selling our homestead as a result. I really don't think I know my parents as well as I thought I did. It seems they have both gone off the deep end into middle upper class america (they were poor like us once too) and cut all ties with civility. It would be one thing if they were having to foot the bill for our house or bills or something. But that is not the case. So the homestead will be up for sale. There is really no way for us to buy it- like I said about credit. I am researching federal monies available to rural dwellers such as us, and also the fanny mae foundation loans, with no real hope of help/ luck. We are planning on moving into van for the spring and summer and renting a mini storage. We can run business from van, and live in it while we save money. We will be in search of a new place once we have some money- we will buy it using cash instead of credit. I am interested in Washington, Maine, Minnesota, Northwest Teritories and Alaska. Gotta be some place with cheap land and snow in the winter. Maybe even the mountains of Tennesse. Some suggestions? I knew that maine was offering, years ago, a deal where you got island off coast if you raised sheep for a five year tenure or something, any one know if that is still functiong program? I am also interesting into looking further into community living for homesteaders- any info would be appreciated. With this bad news is some underlying good news. We did it. We went from 'city slickers' to homesteaders in three years. And we wouldn't dare look back! We will continue homesteading and its ideoligy where ever we go. Peace.

-- Kevin in NC (vantravlrs@aol.com), April 23, 2001

Answers

Gee, that's too bad. I would think as long as you are making your payments, what's the big deal what kind of job you have?? If you were a big gun smuggler or drug dealer that would be another story. I sure hope things turn around for you & you find a place soon. Good luck!

-- Wendy (weiskids@yahoo.com), April 23, 2001.

I'm tired just reading about what you got done in a year. I wish I could get about a fourth of that done and I don't work outside my home. I'm sorry about what is happening to you, but things generally have a way of working themselves out. Maybe you will get a bigger homestead, less bills, and hopefully some peace to go with it. Good luck, let us know what is happening. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers. Dian

-- Dian (rhoffman@nctc.com), April 24, 2001.

Email me Kevin.

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), April 24, 2001.

Kevin, I to am leaving my homestead in search of a bigger one.I'm looking for inexspensive land and will be chipping in with a few family members.Our plan is to buy a large parcel and devide it.Large parcels of land often sell for less per acre.And I've seen others buy land this way, and for them it was the only way they could get a good deal on land.I'm going to be looking in the Northwest part of the U.S. I have considered trying to get other like minded people who are looking to purchase land to homestead to also chip in to buy a large parcel and have it devided , and every party will have their parcel titled in their name.My idea is not to live as one community.But to get land at an affordable price.Every one will own their own parcel once it's devided.There might be other benifits besides lower priced acres .Having a good deep well that 4 or 5 homesteads share and keep up maintenance on.And keeping up maintenance on the road,which will most likely be gravel.And having neighbors who have homesteading motives ,as to not be the only one in the neighborhood who's land doesn't look like a golf course or country club.I'm currenty living in eastern Tennessee.E-mail me if you are interested in talking about this further. Steve

-- SM Steve (A12goat@cs.com), April 24, 2001.

Kevin I am really hoping that you paid them by check or money order and that you had this in writing. I've been burned by my Mom and other family members so often that I know how you feel. If you have proof of making the payments you can take them to court. Even if you don't have proof go ahead and file a lean against the place for the amount you have paid them and for the value of any improvements to the land. You don't have to prove anything to file a lean but they will have to go to court with you before they can sell the place. You DO have a legal leg to stand on here parents or no parents. You have put so much work into this place....you ought to fight for it too. I would think that any judge would be sympathetic to a family with a young child....especially when it is the grandparents of that young child that are doing this! Is there a family member that could mediate? An uncle or someone? Someone semi neutral that could point out to your parents that you are still making the payments and that they are basically going to be responsible for making their grandbaby homeless. Even if you do have a family member that can take this role you need to file a lean. My husband used to be in construction work and when they had a client that didn't pay they immediately filed a lean. It isn't hard or expensive to do. God bless you and your family.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), April 24, 2001.

Kevin, I am so sorry. I think you should fight for YOUR homestead too! I admire your attitude about not looking back though, and if you end up having to leave, well, that kind of attitude and your love of homesteading will get you through and I KNOW you will find a new homestead.

I have inlaws who would be just like your parents are being... it would be a big power play on their part to put things the way they think they ought to be. We could never and have never relied on them. If you have to find a new homestead, doing it on your own (or at least without them) will be the best way ~ no more of them breathing down your back, I am sure, will be a tremendous relief.

Good luck and please keep us posted!

Keeping your family in our thoughts and prayers, Kelly

-- Kelly longing to live in the woods... (kmyers01@commkey.net), April 24, 2001.

Kevin, I'm sorry for the worry you are going through but there may be a way out. It sounds to me as though your parents bought the properties for you and expected you to make the payments to them. It also sounds as though they now need the monthly payment to support their own lifestyle. (If I'm reading this wrong the rest of this may not even apply.) First, you should realize that if the loan is in their name, the bank is not going to accept late payments happily. They usually charge about $20.00 for each late payment. That would also damage your parents' credit. To establish good credit you must pay your bills on time, each and every time. That said, maybe you could talk to your folks and make a new deal. IN WRITING, you agree to pay them X amount per month to purchase the homestead. You absolutely promise to pay on time and if you renege they can THEN sell it out from under you. Make sure you pay them on time. That way you take control of the situation. IN WRITING, you say that you will establish good credit of your own and will pay off the balance of the loan within, say, 3 years. You do that by using the equity you have built up by paying your parents as the down payment on a bank loan. You need all that in writing because without proof all you are doing is renting from them. You can get an amortization schedule printed out from a bank. They will charge you a little for it, but not much, from 2 to 10 dollars probably. The schedule will spell out how much per month, due date, interest rate, beginning balance, and balloon payment, if applicable. A bank will look at this arrangement as a loan and take timely payments into consideration. Each month the schedule will tell you how much is interest, how much is principal, and the remaining balance. Get one copy for you and one for your parents. If you do all this your parents will see that you are really serious about your home. Maybe they will give you another chance. Good luck, Peg.

-- Peg in NW WI (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), April 24, 2001.

Dear Kevin,

Based on the info it appears that you have a contract with your folks to purchase this land. Even a verbal agreement to purchase it IS a contract ie sounds like ya'll agreed that you would buy the land for $56,000 with payments at x amount per month for x number of months. If this is the case and you are not in default of your contract then they cannot sell this land out from under you. Even if verbal they will have to go through a court of law to evict you from the property. You need to do some research ( most states have web access to their laws) on the laws pertaining to this, try searching under land contracts. At least they will have to serve you with default and/or eviction papers. And then you can get your day in court.

I am sorry that your folks are putting you through this. I know its not fun or nice to have to litigate with anyone, let alone your own family, but this doesn't sound like a situation where you are in default. It sounds like what you said, your folks need the money so want to sell the land. Well it appears this is YOUR land so they can't legally sell it.

Good luck

-- Stacia in OK (oneclassycowgirl@aol.com), April 24, 2001.

Kevin, Your situation brings back so many unhappy memories--for 6 years my ex-husbands parents held the mortgage on our house--with it came the unwritten but very much there qualifications. They felt it gave them the right to tell us what they thought about everything that we did or did not do--because we owed them money. Even though we were not late on payments, or gave them any reason for concern as to getting their money back, there was always an edge to the relationship after that. What had started out being an answer to our prayers, we thought, turned out being a feeling of being bound by someone elses rules and standards. There may be people out there that can work with family members and have it be ok--but in our experience it would have been better just to have worked through whatever circumstances came to us with the resources we could find. AS far as to living in Washington State--the areas around the Yakima valley are beautiful and not terribly expensive,--there are always picking, thinning fruit, or ranch jobs to be had. You don't get rich doing those type of things but it does get you and your family by while you get your feet back on the ground. If you follow the fruit growing areas of central Wash.--and the wheat areas of Eastern Washington there are many places that are affordable and suitable for homesteading at a reasonable price. Where we are at now on the Seattle side--prices are really high for most everything--and lots of people. Good luck to you guys--if you need anymore info on places here in Wash...feel free to email me--Lynn

-- Lynn Royal (homesteadmama@att.net), April 24, 2001.

I think I would see a lawyer. this is not fair. you must think of your immediate family first. best wishes. let us know what happens

-- Suzy in Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), April 24, 2001.

Kevin -

Sent you a long email with a couple suggestions for you... Our thoughts are with you!!

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), April 24, 2001.

Kevin,

This may sound kind of "Ann Landers", but thats how it bloomed, sorry. You don't say how old you are, only that you have been doing this for a few years. While getting started you did your homebased and a job and had no credit, but your parents help. I am 40 + and not ashamed to admit that my folks have helped me often, expected paybacks on some things and simply given us help at other times. Always they gave me advice. While some really got my feathers ruffled, some of it helped me survive. When I got totally torqued at them in my early 20s and moved out, it hit me like a ton of bricks. I found myself bill crunching. foodstoring and scrimping just as my folks had and I survived as a result of those lessons learned. Parents are always there for you, but when differences occur, they "know whats best for you" or so they think. Parents are as gardeners, always trying to "raise the perfect crop", children are as the crop, reaching to maturity and hopefully becoming heirloom seeds. Maybe your folks are concerned about you moving too fast into the beyond the sidewalk lifestyle without a "regular job" or any ties to the ratrace life that they are a part of ( you know the one that has mortgages, credit reports and such). Before ending up in "peoples Court", try communicating with them, not as homesteader to city slicker, but as child to parent ( I often thought if I were 96 and Mom were 115, she would still curfew me :>). Try to see what they really want to see you achieve, maybe its just getting in a position of established credit and land ownership so that you can survive standing in either side of the "sidewalks". Maybe your credit standing from your 40 hr job and business can qualify you for the 56K loan. Maybe all your folks want to see is the lawn cut. Maybe they really are your Snidley Whiplash. Communication will show where you stand and the direction you need to go. Try putting yourself in their position , realizing their values, look it over and talk to them. I have often heard it said "home is the place you go that you can't be turned away from". Talk to them and try to salvage your dream before moving into the van. Good Luck

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), April 24, 2001.

So much for blood being thicker than water. Due to demands placed on me even as a married adult by my parents that they had no right to expect, I walked out of their lives 20 years ago. That means the whole family, none of whom asked my side and even my brother who couldn't remain neutral in the discord. I have neices and nephews whom I have never seen and never expect to see. I don't expect or wish to be notified at their deaths and if I were, I doubt I would attend any services. My husband knows if he notified them of my passing and they showed up at the funeral, I would sit up in my casket and spit in his eye. It isn't anger, hurt or hate towards them as that passed long ago, but a deep and abiding knowledge that they would start their old mind games if allowed even the slightest inroad to my life. I hope you can do what you need to in order to protect yourself of such parental "love."

What is your relationship with your wife's family? You might do well to cover your bases for emergency care for your little girl in the interim. With your parents' ideas on things, they could just as likely take you to court to gain custody of your daughter because in their eyes you can no longer provide for her "properly."

Just out of curiosity, how old are you and your wife? Do you have other siblings who toe the mark with Mom and Dad?

Having been in your shoes in some respects, you have my deepest sympathy and highest hopes for success.

-- marilyn (rainbow@ktis.net), April 24, 2001.

Ok. I am still in shock over amount of responses. (Picking up my jaw off the table). Yes, well. To answer a few questions and add a few things, My wife is 30, I am 23. Yes. I am a youngster! We are in default of payments only if you consider 1/2 the 'rent' 1 week late for past while now. No missed payments. We live in Rocky Mount NC, near Raliegh area. Parents put down payment of 15 k down to bring payments down. We would have to pay that amount to assume loan. (Ha!) So far, things have been quiet since last night. I think I will take to roll of 'shut up and let them chill' for a few days. We will see. They also own three other rental properties (large houses in town), which they bought with a chunk of inheritance. The renters in those houses have not been the best- missed payments, only two are occupied because people flaked. This may have somethinng to do with their over all stress thing. We are really getting sick of the breathing down the back senario. They dont tell the other renters how to live their lives (although they forbade a daycare to be operated out of one house). We need a secure place, and may choose to move even if this situation clears. Yes i have a sibling. Brother. He got into some degree of trouble and was bailed by mom and pop. So that also has something to do with their stress level. He and his girlfriend lives with them. He drives a new (97 neon) car they are financing. I love my brother very much, and do not try to play favorites. They are as critical and more so of him bc he lives there and is constantly within "striking range." He agrees that things have changed for the worse with folks attitudes recently. Land in NC is fairly cheap- farm down the road with 73 acres and double wide with shed sold for 73k. That was cheap for around here, but just stating that deals are available. I once saw 84 acres in maine with log cabin listed for 24k bout ten years back. Since I was only 13, I couldnt buy it=( We have dreampt of living up north for some time. I am from PA originally. In 96, there was 80+ inches of snow on the ground at once- and I loved every minute of it. I know snow. I think thats most of the questions I saw. Thank you all for you advice and postings!!

-- Kevin in NC (Vantravlrs@aol.com), April 24, 2001.

Kevin: Not sure what you're referring to concerning the sheepherding island in Maine. I know that any island property these days is sky high. The town of Frenchboro, on Long Island, is always looking for new residents so they can keep their school open, but the reason they're always looking is because newcomers don't often last very long on an isolated island, especially if they have no source of income. The islanders live off lobstering, but that's pretty much a closed industry up here these days for outsiders.

Northern and eastern Maine has cheaper properties because those counties are losing population -- because there are few good (or even bad) jobs available to keep people there.

Sorry to be so negative, but my best advice for anyone planning to homestead in Maine is to bring a substantial grubstake and a job with you, especially if the economy hits the skids. If you're really into subsistence living, you could make a go of it, but it's a tough row to hoe.

-- Cash (Cash@andcarry.com), April 24, 2001.

Kevin please e-mail me if you like maryland we need help and have room for you

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), April 24, 2001.

One of you need a weekly paycheck .There is much owner financing to be had in NY state with a down payment .If it pleases them "for now " keep your job work on getting everything in writing to protect yourself.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), April 24, 2001.

Kevin, My husband and I were in the mortgage/note business until last year. I still have contacts in the business, and might be able to help you find a lender for your situation, regardless of your credit. We worked with private lenders who purchased owner-financed notes, and with the seasoning on your loan (during the time y ou've already lived there), I think you might qualify. Email me if you would like to talk about it, and I'll do my best to help. I'd hate to see anyone lose a home that they've put so much work and care into. Kristin

-- Kristin, in La. (positivekharma@aol.com), April 24, 2001.

Hi Kevin,

I'm only a paralegal and not an attorney..so this is not legal advise..but I can tell you that even if you do have a "verbal" contract with you parents, the only way to enforce it is to sue them. Usually not a good idea. If you don't have an attorney to represent you in this (usually at $200 or more an hour) and your parents DO have one...your sunk!

Only hope you have with this place is:

1. Either to work another deal (in writing) with your parents but I don't think this is a good idea. They already renigged on this one and also, they are going to hold this over you like they have in the past. Your sacrificing your freedom for the land....homesteading is about freedom....free to do your own thing and support yourself! A better choice might be;

2. Attempt to work with a mortgage broker. Everyone tends to want to avoid mortgage brokers...like a bank is better (LOL)...but this is not true. They often have private lenders available also. That is how some people make thier living -- interest on real estate loans. People tend also to believe the interest rate will be higher, but this is also not true. Since you have no credit, you may pay a tad higher interest rate than someone with established credit, but not a huge differance. Also, if one broker can't help you try another. Differant companies have differant resources. Another note: a mortgage broker can also work it so that your closing costs are part of the loan! Many will loan up to %103 of the market value of the property....no money down, so you may be able to keep your place yet..don't give up yet! Main thing with the mortgage broker is to be real up-front. Explain your situation, credit, job history, etc. and just ask if there is any programs available for you. They are very creative in getting funds! Usually you will have to pay an origination fee, etc. but...it may be worth it. Check on moving expesnses, time lost from work, etc. It may work out a better deal..and again, they finance those fees in. It might be at least a "fix" for now to allow you to establish your credit and then refinance at a better rate down the road.

Of EVEN GREATER CONCERN I see is...depending on the county and state you are in....is the moving into your van. In many states, social services could step in and you could lose your daughter...especially if your parents were to file a complaint. Don't take the chance. Once social services get into your lives they don't get out easily!!!

I sure do feel for you. You must be not only hearbroken about losing your homestead but, even more so, about your parents. My family will say a prayer for you tonight. Don't give up and don't move to the van! You are a hard worker, resourceful and a true homesteader...there is a way...if not at that location, the USA is a BIG place! Best of luck!

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), April 25, 2001.

My personal rules:

Never borrow money from friends or relatives! Never loan money to friends or relatives! If you WANT to help someone with their finances, think of it as a gift from you to them. If they are ever able to return the favor, that's fine. If you never see them again, forget it! Life is too short to lay in bed at night grieving over perceived injustices. If you think you can't afford to part with a monitary gift, keep your money in your pocket.

I'm sorry about the troubles you're having with your folks. It sounds like they are pretty stressed. Maybe you can work something out with a conventional lender to get this property in your name as it should be.

-- Paul (hoyt@egyptian.net), April 25, 2001.

If I were in your situation I would tell my folks to be nice or I'd move so far away they would never see their grandchild again!

-- debra in ks (solid-dkn@msn.com), April 25, 2001.

tried sending again....

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), April 25, 2001.

Sad story. I'd chalk it up to experience and get the hell outta Dodge and don't mix business with family again. Lesson learned, & now you & your spouse can continue your homesteading adventures elsewhere... like the other end of the Universe from wherever they are. Looks like a lot of people are willing to open their arms to you and that's great; good luck to you. dh in nm

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), April 26, 2001.

Kevin,

Fight for your place!! You had a deal and you kept up your end..even if the payments were late..once they accepted them they set a precedence and can't bust you for it now. See a lawyer and don't be NICE. I have a friend whose daughter is about to become homeless because her husband's parents didn't make the payments on the house they were buying from them,and the parent's have filed bankruptcy. No written contract, but they aren't giving up. Don't let them do this to you. Don't feel guilty about your lifestyle choice....just don't give up!

-- Deborah (bearwaoman@Yahoo.com), April 27, 2001.

Kevin,

Sorry about Your situation. Why's family stuff always soooo hard??!?!!? Couple quick thoughts.

If you are unable to afford an attorney, try your state's legal services. They're there for people NEEDING help but unable to afford it.

In some states, a verbal agreement is considered valid if one party follows through and is willing to continue (I'm paraphrasing LOTS of legal jargon here), especially if there is some documentation to prove compliance with the agreement.

The situation You're in needs to be approached as a landlord / tenant dispute. As such, your parents MUST go through a legal procedure to bring an eviction. There is normally a time limit within which You've a chance to make payment. After that limit they can file for the eviction, then there will be a court hearing, etc. If they accept ANY payment (be certain to pay by check or money order), full or partial, at any time, then they go back to sqare one with the eviction procedure and have to start the whole thing again.

While the idea of chucking everything and leaving is certainly attractive, please consider fighting. There have been lots of good posts here with excellant info. Think them over. You will reap benefits by fighting, win or lose, that may take years to realize.

Best of luck!! Please e-mail me if you need more help.

Randle

-- Randle Gay (rangay@hotmail.com), April 30, 2001.