Hi, I haven't had a chance to look at the forum in a long time, so I missed a lot of threads. I went in to check on some old info, that I knew was in there, when I came across an old thread, where someone had a goat, that was wasting away, even so they ate good, and seemed otherwise in good health. Well it just so happens, that we put down a goat yesterday, that fit that description perfectly. Never could figure out what was going on with her, and no other goats in a herd of 33 seemed to have any problems. Anyway there were a lot of replies mentioning Johnes disease, and I always thought, I was fairly educated, when it came to goats, but I never heard of it. What is it, and how does it effect the animal? Is it contagious ? I would appreciate, if someone could shed some light on this. Thank you Karin

-- karin morey (www.wind_crest@hotmail.com), April 22, 2001

Answers

According to Sheep and Goat Science by Esminger and Parket, Johne's Disease (Paratuberculosis) is a chronic, contagious infection of sheep, goats and cattle. It is usually fatal. Economic losses result from the prolonged unthriftyiness and eventual death of animals. ... Johnes disease is caused by the bacillus Mycobacterium paratuberculosis, which is nearly alwasy introduced into a clean flock by an infected animal. ... No satisfactory treatment is known.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), April 22, 2001.

Hi Karin, most of the cattle information available on the net is applicable to goats. The biggest difference when you read goat texts is that they do not exhibit the classic profuse diarrhea that cattle do. Though the only goat I have ever seen before did test positive after a fecal sample (blood tests are very inaccurate) and she was tested for johnes because of loose pasty stools, not true diarrhea, and she was really a walking skeleton. Of course she had been wormed, cocci treated and treated for rumen acidosis, over and over before the owner even thought about testing for Johnes. Internal abscess from CL, CAE, worming and cocci treating without fecal counts all will mimic Johnes.

It is passed in the manure from does/bucks who carry it to their kids. Animals are usually in the 5 to 6 year old range before Johnes becomes obvious. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 22, 2001.

Karin, I worked as a vet tech on a farm that was hit by Johnes. When I first started working there, they had just switched vets since they seemed to be getting no answers as to why their goats were wasting away and dying at an alarming rate. The new vet tested using the Elisa test, which is a blood test and is considered the most accurate method of testing. The only method of elimination from the herd it by culling any animal that tests positive. The vet and Extension recommended that we test the entire herd annually, culling any positive tests each year, for 3 years after the last positive test to be sure the disease was gone. The reason for such longevity is that the mycobacterium that causes the disease can live for years in the soil. The disease is passed on via fecal contamination of feeds (feeding on the ground or standing in the grain pan can cause this). A second reason for testing for so long is that even with the Elisa test, there can be false negatives. One thing that we did other than cull the positive animals was make sure that there were good hay racks and grain feeders in each pen and keep the pens clean around those areas. The goats weren't pastured, so that was not an issue. There was no diarrhea with the ill goats, they simply wasted away until their systems gave out, despite any treatment offered.

-- Sheryl Adams (radams@sacoriver.net), April 23, 2001.

Thank you, to everybody, that took the time to answer. Now I'm worried. The goat that was wasting away, was one of 8 goats, that were given to us by a lady, that is very ill with cancer, and could not take care of them anymore, but didn't want to see them go to the meatmarket. I took them in as a favor, and told her I was going to breed them, and kid them out, but wouldn't be able to keep them forever, because I have all the goats I need. All of my goats,and the seven others, kidded out just fine. That one, never got bred, and just kept getting thinner, even though she ate good. We wormed her, and gave her a round on penicillin, but she didn't respond to anything. I truly cannot afford to get the vet involved, so when she got to sleeping standing up, because she couldn't get up if she laid down, we put her down. I never thought of a anything contagious, because I keep a close eye on them, and all other 32 goats are fine. If this was Johnes, how long would it take for others to show signs of it? Is there anything, we could do to prevent other cases? Thanks for your help Karin

-- karin morey (www.wind_crest@hotmail.com), April 28, 2001.

I don't know if your goats are pastured or paddocked, but if they are pastured rotating frequently would help limit passing the disease. If they are paddocked, make sure they are eating off the ground and can't poop in their grain feeders. If you feed in pans, feed them and pull the pans out as soon as they eat. Wash the pans often and bleach them. None of these things will eliminate the disease if it's there. Goats often don't show signs for months to years after they contract the disease. Now that I have you fully panicked, I should tell you that the disease is not highly contagious. The farm that I worked at that had the problem was a petting farm and dairy farm. The dairy cows were never affected but were kept separate. The petting animals (sheep, standard and pygmy goats, deer, llama, alpaca, cattle, and more)were intermingled all the time, but the only animals that ever tested positive or died of the disease were pygmy goats. Pygmy goats are not any more or less susceptible to Johnes, so I think the disease was passed from mother to offspring via soiled teats, and in the breeding pen (which was less well kept since it was only viewed by the public from a distance). Don't panic, stay clean, and pray.

-- Sheryl Adams (radams@sacoriver.net), April 28, 2001.

There is a great article in Goat Medicine about Johnes (paratuberculosis) They state that it is a herd problem and dependant upon how long the new doe was living with the rest of the herd (and it doesn't say how long this doe would have had to live with the herd) "When a clinical case is diagnosed from an existing herd, the herd almost always includes subclinical shedders and infected, non-shedding goats." AGID tests on blood along with bacterial culture of feces are used together in goats. Once again the blood tests which are ran for CAE, Elisa are inaccurate for this. No test will identify infected nonshedders so you have to continue to test a 6 month intervals to be sure you aren't infected. They recommend that all kids from positive does are also culled, "this reflects the belief that kids of infected dams are also very likely to be infected." Huge amount of information here, which I would be happy to copy and send to you. If you could possibly tests herd mates of this doe you put down, from the old herd, (from the sounds of it especially a daughter) you would probably get more accurate tests, than on your does, and hopefully not, newly infected does. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 28, 2001.