My wife and I found some land in western Colorado that we love. It's about 8 miles off a paved road. For the most part, it is a flat, dirt road. It is considered a non-year round access road and is up around 9,000 feet. We plan on living very self-reliantly with solar power/garden/root cellar/etc.

Our first thought is to pass it up, though we do love the spot. We are wondering what issues we should think about if we wanted to live there year round. Is it stupid? And what does year round access mean. Does it mean we can drive a minivan up there? We have a 4 wheel drive truck. Does that mean we can get up there even if it is considered non-year round access?

Out in the Colorado country, many people say if an emergency run to the hospital is required, an air lift is the option that is typical. If we obtain a proper food storage system, we should be fine. We would, of course, have to be 100% self-sufficient. (not needing to get to work). That would require us to be debt-free.

I guess I'm trying to find other reasons to be concerned about.

Any help would be appreciated.

-- chris storm (cstorm@melco.com), April 16, 2001

Answers

Chris, I really don't have the experienced answers for you but WOW - that sounds great. I am sitting here being as jealous as I can be!

Good luck

-- Bernd in NC (Bernd001@aol.com), April 16, 2001.

Chris,

Non-year round access means just that...you can get in and out when the weather is good. The roads become impassable either with heavy rains or snow. Snow drifts can close up the roads and you probably won't have any public clearing of the roads so it's up to you and anyone else living out there. 9,000' is pretty high for gardening but it is doable. You aren't crazy for wanting to live this way but you need to think about the possibilities. Does anyone else live out that way? Find out from the locals what the non-access period is. Dirt roads at that altitude, you could be blocked a good deal of the winter. If you have to commute to work...that is a consideration. A mini-van would probably make it on dry roads. But, there are places that even a 4x4 can't deal with when it is snowed in. You need to find out what the snowfall is there in the winter...then consider a snowmobile or a ATV to get in and out when the truck won't. Self-sufficiency will be mandatory so that you get through whatever mother nature throws at you. Also, take courses in first aid...a "First Responder's " Course would be ideal. Make sure you have medical supplies. A really neat way to go if you can. Hope you make it work. Enjoy your life.

-- Deborah (bearwaoman@Yahoo.com), April 16, 2001.

A lot depends upon where you are in western Colorado. If you are west of the Rockies in the high desert it can be pretty arid and the access problem could be when it rains. In the Rocky Mtns there is always lots of snow in the winter and into spring. I have a friend at 7200' and growing a garden is variable, good years and bad. A greenhouse probably would be required if you are going to depend on the garden for food. The big attraction to this land is solitude and lots of it.

-- Lynn Goltz (lynngoltz@aol.com), April 16, 2001.

>>an air lift is the option that is typical.<<

Sure is; at a cost $5000.00 and up. Depends on where, when, and distances.

A lot of "Duh" in this dream. James

-- James (jamesj1592@about.com), April 16, 2001.

Hello Chris, Things that I would think about is how much food could I produce on my land, and what materials do I have available that I can build with. 100% self-sufficiency is hard to obtain if you have to purchase the bulk of your needs. The most self-sufficient people I know of were Helen and Scott Nearing, (authors of Living The Good Life) and they admittedly were only 85% self-sufficient. If you plan on 100% self-sufficiency you will have to prepare for many situations. Examples....crop failure due to late frost, drought etc.....possiblility of being snowed in for long periods of time (even 4-wheel drives are no good on an icy slope)....possibility of accidents without access to professional health care....waste disposal and sanitation...feed and grain production and storage (if you keep livestock)...income producing, just to name a few. In any event it pays to plan your move in phases possibly years in advance to develop solutions to worst case senerios. Even with all the planning in the world you will encounter problems that may or may not be easily solved. I live in a remote area myself, (maybe not as remote as you are planning) and I can only attest after one year of only being about 25% to 35% self-sufficient. As for homesteading that is probably a pretty good goal for most. Sincerely, Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), April 16, 2001.

I do identify with your idea of going to wild places to live self sufficiently. But why do people pick the areas least inclined to support a homestead... with the poorest growing seasons... 9000 feet will see snow and freezing temps in all months of the year, you will be totally snowed in with up to and beyond 10 feet of snow on the trail for 4-5 months of the year (a 4x4 cant go in anything deeper than its bumpers), a green house will be nearly manditory for anything frost sensitive. I had plans of going to Northwest Territories for a while. I think if I could be anywhere, I would be in Washington state, up in the north west point near the ocean- great growing season, plants and animals, varied seasons... instead Im here in NC fulfilling our close as we can to self sufficiency plan for living. Not there yet, and it gets too hot here for my liking but at least the tomatoes and corn grow. I am not saying that your dream cannot be made into reality. I do suggest you carefully research it first. And get good at the things that you will need to depend on in Colorado- once there is not a good time to try out new designs for greenhouse if you are absolutely relying upon it! I just wonder why... because of the challenge? Because of the lack of neighbors? Because of the scenery?

-- Kevin in NC (vantravlrs@aol.com), April 16, 2001.

You will also need a very large supply of fire wood and maybe a large woodshed.You might spend most of the gardening season cutting wood for the next winter instead of gardening.

-- SM Steve (A12goat@cs.com), April 16, 2001.

The only homesteader that is 100 percent selfsufficent is living a very simple life style that few would even consider. The only way to do that is a life style that has none of the modern conviences. Picture living like a mountain man of the 1840's. We are about 95 percent selfsufficent on food and heat. We could do with out the electricity but don't want to. At 9000 feet eight miles from a year round road I have serious doubts about it being a reasonable spot. You didn't mention your age and do you intend to have or do you have children. I am 60 at this age you have to have access to medical attention. Children would have to have access to medical, only a parent knows how suddendly a sniffle turns out to be a emergency. The land may be beautiful and reasonable but may be worthless for living on.

-- David (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), April 16, 2001.

Hi Chris! I have done this kind of life and you can too. You may love it or hate it but you will not know for sure until you try it! Any winter or mud access problem can be worked around if you want it bad enough, but most people don't want to deal with alot of inconveniences so those are the mountain spots that the rest of us can still afford. As said earlier, if you plan ahead for it with a snowmobile,atv, giant pickup with chains on all four wheels, you can always get in and out.The main thing is how far your property is from the plowed and paved roads.Mud is actually worse than snow; you can always find a way to buy a plow blade to put on your pickup and plow it yourself.If you really wanted to you could snowshoe or cross country ski in and out. It is better if you don't have to work, but crazy people like me have worked full time under those conditions also.You just have to get up alot earlier on the bad days. If you want to live there you can figure out a way to overcome all obstacles.Go for it!

-- maureenb (firegirl102@hotmail.com), April 17, 2001.

I used to live at 9,000 feet in Bailey, Colorado. Had a pickup with plow too, even the county maintained roads don't get plowed right away, so we had to plow out many times. 8 miles is a LONG way to plow. We were only about 2 miles off the pavement, and others up there had plows too so it was usually a group effort. Do you have to cross creeks to get there? Are there any other people living up the road? Year round?

I didn't have much of a garden at all, there wasn't enough summer to get anything ripe hardly, 4 months of growing season. It snowed on July 4th one year. I didn't have a greenhouse though. That's why I love it so much out here, 8 months of growing season and only 4 or even 3 months of winter. But, it is absolutely beautiful up there in the mountains, I miss the smell of warm pine needles and there are no fleas or ticks.

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@hotmail.com), April 17, 2001.

First off.... If you love it, it isn't stupid.

That said, there are things to consider... Have you ever lived on the amount of power you propose to generate? If not - try it... In a regular setting, all it requires is flipping a few switches. How do you plan to heat? If you are building, can you get it done before having to live on the land, AND have you settled on just what you will build with? Have you experience with growing and raising your own food supply, or will you rely on books and advice from others. As good as most of the advice here is, you will need your own experience. Do you have at least 6 months worth of money and supplies to tide you over? Have you ever preserved your own food?

Do as much in the way of prep and learning as you can before you go. Make sure of the amenities you will need... will you take any appliances with you? Will you be able to run them without a reliable supply of energy? Do you already own a woodstove? Planning on a fireplace? What will you need to buy before next winter to keep you in food, clothing, shelter and heat? Even if you don't plan on moving for 2 or more years.... Start asking yourself these questions and doing the prep now. Brush up on things like CPR and first aid.

If you were going to be closer to town, I wouldn't be all that worried. But there is something to be said about living more than a couple miles off the beaten path. You need to know yourself and you need to have some sort of a plan of action. Wilderness is rather forgiving, but can be a hard master.

I don't know much about living quite that high up (we are at about 4500 feet). Will you be able to lay in all your supplies for a five to six month period?? If not, I would wait to move till you can. Power is another thing, as is communication. You don't want to be stuck up there without lights and a way to call out if something happens.

8 miles on a dirt road needn't be too much of a problem if you have a 4wd truck. You could plow your own way out... and grade yourself. I have a friend that lives in MO who grades his own road with old railroad ties. If you are creative, there shouldn't be too much of a problem. Expect, though, that there will still be weeks at a time when you cannot get out - even with 4wd.

Have you got a pretty good idea how much power you use already and what kind of system you want? What about the cost... will you have to wait, or will you have enough left after purchasing the land?

Do you have your 'systems' in place?? What I mean is: I have general plans for just about everything I intend to do. They are as detailed as I could make them without knowing exactly the land they will fit into. I am probably to anal retentive, but I even have a couple graph-paper designs of things like chicken coops, hutches for the rabbits, dog shelters, etc. A sort of 'best of all possible worlds' type deal. They change as I find new ideas, and of course will change when I get onto the land, but they are great for reference.

In Idaho - year round access is just that. You can get on and off the property all year. In the higher elevations, even year round access doesn't mean much here. They will plow, but remember that the wind is a lot more active the higher you get. Sometimes even at 4500 feet, they will plow, but the wind just blows it all back in a matter of minutes.

4wd does not guarantee a thing, but will make it a lot easier. Theoretically, yes... you could drive a minivan up... wouldn't count on it though - and conditions will change day to day, week to week and year to year. Be sure you can survive for a minimum of three months without getting off that land.

Here in Idaho, for $50 a year, the medicopter is guaranteed. Its sort of a community insurance policy. There are similar programs in MO, too. But - then you have to provide them with a place to land, or be able to get to the spot they will meet you at.

OK... now that I've probably scared you out of it... I don't mean to. I am determined to be in a similar situation. The goal is to owe nothing but income and property taxes within the next two years. We've been looking - and I wouldn't trade the mountains for anything in the world.

I have some criteria that drive my hubby and the realtors crazy. I won't bend on these things:

Live water on the property, BLM or FS land on at least one side, some woods and some clear land, and I have a minimum acreage. I refuse to consider anything that will restrict what type of livestock I own, or what type of shelter I build. It must have water and mineral rights (especially in a mining state!!). With these things in place, everything is possible.

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), April 17, 2001.

Even a 3/4 ton 4wd plow truck can't handle everything. We plow our 300 yard driveway, the driveway at the old place, and sometimes the length of the town road out to the blacktop-over a mile. Plowing beats the heck out of a truck; pins shear off or get lost; hydraulic hoses leak; plowing uses a lot of gasoline. You might have to get out and plow during a storm to make sure your truck can keep up with the snow. Snow drifts can pack down like concrete. The heavy, wet snow of spring and fall is nearly impossible to move. You need to have width to plow a season's snow. As the winter progresses the banks act as a snow fence and contribute to even more drifting. At the end of the season, the banks may have closed in so you will probably need a grader with a wing blade to push the sides back. Eight miles is an awfully long way to plow. I don't mean to discourage you but you should at least know what to expect.

The only other question I have is about water. Will you be able to get any?

-- Peg in NW WI (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), April 17, 2001.

Hi Chris:

My husband and I were raised in western Colorado and we have several generations of relatives who homesteaded in that area. We still have lots and lots of family living in the area. You didn't indicate the county you were looking at (makes a great deal of difference) or where you are from.

Western Colorado is a beautiful area and is a great place to vacation and live (if you have an outside source of income); HOWEVER, at that altitude, it will be almost impossible to grow enough varieties of food to be self-sufficient. The growing season is very short (30-90 days depending on location) and you also have to deal with the deep snow that doesn't melt until August in the shady areas on the north side of mountains. You will be buried in snow for half of the year. A 4X4 will help but plan on buying a snowmobile. The activities at this altitude are skiing, timbering, hiking, camping, ski-mobiling and cattle pasturing (only in the summer). There is also hunting but even good hunters don't often fill their deer or elk licences so don't count on this as a reliable source of meat.

Your endeavor is definitely for someone who is young and in good health. We don't currently live in Colorado and don't intend to retire there because it will be difficult to cope with that environment(9000 ft) in our old age. There are a lot of retirees from California and Oregon who have moved to that area in the last few years - these people all have a money source from outside the local economy. If you do get a job in the area, the pay is barely above minimum wage. The cost of living is also high if you need to go to town to buy anything. We use to drive to Denver or Salt Lake City twice a year to do any major purchases/shopping. Also, don't go near any of the Uranium mining and mill areas.

We love western Colorado's high country and it is a beautiful place to live but it would be a tough area to sustain a living if you don't have any outside income to supplement what you can get off of your land. If you want to give us more detail maybe we can help with more specifics.

Irene in SE Mi

-- Irene (beahold@yahoo.com), April 19, 2001.

Chris, another thing no one has mentioned, is after you have built your dream home up there, and you are snowed in some winter day, consider what would happen if you had a chimney fire and it caught your cabin on fire. There is NO WAY the fire department, which is probably volunteer, but wouldn't matter, could get to you, and you would probably not be able to do much yourself. Just one thing to consider. If you do this, I would be sure to follow the recommendations to have a clear cut area well away from the dwelling, with no trees, to minimize the chance of a forest fire. Good luck, and let us know what you decide to do. By the way, I think one of the forum members may have some BEAUTIFUL property for sale if they are still moving to Missouri. It's in Eastern Washiington, but up in the mountains and about the same altitude as what you're looking at. You couldn't grow corn, wheat or anything like that, so no grain products at that altitude and short growing season. Jan--also in Colorado

-- Jan in CO (Janice12@aol.com), April 20, 2001.