Thanks for making your experience available to the less experienced of us. We have had goats for just over a year and a half. A couple of our does recently delivered. The three year old LaMancha gave us healthy twins. The yearing doe delivered a weak and somewhat crippled doe. The doe ,"Dolly" , is six weeks old and has been kept in the basement except for some outdoor excursions. We have been giving her and the twins straight goat milk every since delivery. Dolly has progressed some, but remains unable to use her right leg (vet believes is a defect in her right hip). It is possible her daddy got to her instead of a non-relative. We kept them separate, but we know a time or two, he escaped and ended up in the field with Dolly. She started life out quite a bit smaller than the twins and has stayed way behind in the development area. She has gotten around pretty well until today. By the way, she is eating well. Tonight, when feeding time came around, my daughter, Megan found Dolly lying down and not able to rise. She tried but could not get up. Her temp is 102. She seems to have a balance problem (she holds her head way off to the left of her body and it makes her fall down. Not to mention her wobbly, unstable stance tonight. Even when she lies down, she twists her head and shoulders way off to the left and seems disoriented. After feeding, she seemed to stand a little better, but even her good rear leg is dragging way behind and she is prone to falling. Any ideas? We'd like to let someone have her for a gentle pet, but don't want her to be in pain. (Looks like she is chewing her cud (has some hay in her area, but don't believe she is eating much if any), but am worried she is grinding her teeth in pain). If we need to let her go, how much does a shot cost, usually, for putting her down? Can I buy it and administer it myself? I have injected pennicillin in other kids. Thanks for your input. Brian Mccabe scout@kanokla.net

-- Brian McCabe (scout@kanokla.net), April 01, 2001

Answers

e-mail vicki who posts here often.she knows a fair bit about goats.Off the top of my head I can think of several potential problems with you goat but infection does not come to mind based on your temp. reading of 102.Goats average about 103 as I recall.This may be an ear infection based on your behavior description.selenium deficiency cases weak muscles and poor balance.Has the kid been given any kind of vitamin supplements?Is her abdomin distended? If so it could be bloat.as far as lethal injection over the counter forget it.Vets are very costly even if it is for a mercy killing.The only quick humane way I know of to put her down will cost you 3 cents.That's the cost of a single .22 to the head.shoot either behind the ear and into the skull or imagine an x drawn between the ear hole to the eye sockets and place the shot a little higher and to the left or right of the center axis.Put the muzzle right up to the animals head.Don't close your eyes.If you don't own a gun you can use a hammer to strike a blow at the same aiming point.strike with all your might and do not hesitate.If you can't strike hard and decisively don't use a hammer.all that unpleasentness being said don't be in too big of a hurry to put her down.Give her some calf hydration formula and a liquid vitamin suppliment.It won't hurt her and may do her some good.Get in touch with vicki and see what she thinks. good luck.

-- greg (gsmith@tricountyi.net), April 01, 2001.

A few things come to mind. it sounds like maybe floppy kid syndrome which is actually an e-coli problem. No, the runs don't necessarily show up. Here is some information I copied and pasted for you on floppy kid. have you also given ehr selinium for the leg problem? White muscle disease of selinium deficiency can cause problems with legs. Those are my thought on the situation so far. Hope this helps.

I for some reason cannot access my file to copy and paste on my yahoo briefcase. But give her 1/2 tsp of baking soda in cold water, about 1/4 cup mix and sryinge down her.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), April 01, 2001.

Brian

I have to take exception to Greg's advice above. If you have never killed an animal, don't experiment on a sickly kid you have grown attached to, and certainly don't go beating it over the head. I my opinion, having animals means being willing to bear the cost of veterinary services when conditions arise that you are not able to deal with. Any one who raises, or even owns, animals is going to encounter problems. Don't make the animals suffer because you are unwilling to shell out the bucks necessary for their proper care. If you can't ever afford a vet for anything then you probably can't afford to own animals.

This kid is in pain. After six weeks with a disorder from birth, she most likely will not recover, and will cetainly never be a producer. You need to put her down humanely. If you take her into a livestock vet, they will probably be able to do this for a nominal cost. You will have to dispose of the carcass yourself.

-- Skip Walton (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), April 01, 2001.

Is there any chance it could be a selenium deficiency? We are deficient here and often have kids born not even able to stand, their joints and limbs seem so floppy. Usually they get over it within hours and are standing, although tentatively. After a few days they seem normal,once in awhile a kid seems to have been shorted (as in a triplet), and has knuckled under feet for about a week before they finally straighten out. I had a kid born this year, a triplet, with his whole hindquarters paralyzed, very stiff like rigor mortis. I could not flex his legs or even seperate them from one another, they were so stiff. He wouldn't eat, just cried. I brought him up into the house so his mother wouldn't get attached to him in case he died. I realized that it looked like he was just going to die a slow death since he wasn't eating, so I took him out and killed him. I'd never killed a baby goat before and this one was really cute. I hit him over the back of the head several times with a heavy garden fork, before he died. It was just horrible. Do not try to kill a cute kid by hitting it with something. It haunted me for days. What was worse, a friend came by and told me the kid's condition was entirely reversible! She said it was just white mucsle disease, from a selenium deficiency, and that if I'd given him 1/2 cc of Bo-Se he wwould have gotten better. I bought a bottle of Bo-Se and now if it ever happens again I will be ready. It's too late for the kid we had, but you can try it on yours and see if she gets better. I don't think it was caused by inbreeding. Inbreeding doesn't cause deformed kids, it causes any recessive genes that are already there to link up together more often. A fault that the parents have will show up again to a more pronounced degree. Bo-Se is not expensive, I would give it a try.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), April 01, 2001.

Skip, I was not trying to advocate cruelty.A hammer can work as well as a bullet.It is also not the easiest thing to do.Some can some can't.I don't know Brian so I can't access his abilities I can only pass on the info and assume that he can make up his own mind.I agree that we owe our animals vet care.Thankfully I am able to provide most of it myself.On jobs where anesthesia is needed I call in a vet.I could do it myself but of course can't buy the drugs here in Pa.The bill is always huge.I don't know Brian's financial situation.Calling a vet might just break the bank for him.Sometimes you get a vet that will insist on taking "heroic" measures ala E.R. on an animal that was being raised for food and would be more economically destroyed.As far as euthanasia goes a small animal like a goat kid might be put down with a lethal dose of barbiturate.Larger animals are usually put down with a "humane killer" It is a captive bolt device powered by a a blank pistol cartridge.So what is the differance between shooting the animal yourself or having the officially sanctioned and anointed vet doing it after poking,proding, and stressing an animal in pain for an hour.Lets not forget the time you wait until he gets there.I think I'll just spend my 3cents and save the animal a couple more hours suffering.Speaking about suffering I'm not sure that Brians kid is suffering at the moment and may have a correctable problem that when addressed will allow the animal to live and be someones pampered pet.Hard nosed stock raisers would have put the kid nose down in a bucket full of water as soon as it was born.(can't buy barbiturate over the counter)I applaud Brian for trying to care for this animal.Right or wrong he may not have the money to pay a for a vet in this situation.He turned to folks on the board first.I hope someone can be of help.

-- greg (gsmith@tricountyi.net), April 01, 2001.

Brian being one of those hard nosed :) kind, I would have put the doe down at birth. And no, this was not caused by her being the daughter of her father. Though if you are talking Nubian and her sire and mom carried the newly discovered G6S gene, this could totally be a possiblity. It will hurt nothing to treat her for floopy kid, just put some baking soda in her bottles. It will hurt nothing to treat her for poliomyilitis-encephalitis (thiamin defficiency) just give her maximum dosages of B complex, dosing only for the B1 (thiamin) in the bottle) Go to saanendoah.com for the dosage. It also won't hurt nothing to get a Bo-se shot to give her for selenium. Putting her on antibiotics would help if it was an ear infection.

This is exactly the reason we don't keep less than perfect kids here, and the reason why I don't give away kids with problems. Give away kids here, are because they are to narrow, no breed character about the nose, to short of ears, or slight over or underbites, only. Deformatites always have to be dealt with eventually. I find it easier to deal with it right away, rather than later. As a pet this doe will not be able to breed unassisted, and if you can't keep her grandfather/father in his pen, she will get bred. Then she won't be able to deliver probably without assistance........ Taken all the extra time and now money that you will be spending on this kid, it is wiser to spend your money and time, and emotions on kids who will give back to the farm.

The vet will not give you the drug to euthinize, haven't a clue how much this would be. I think all folks with stock or even pets should have this type of thing well thought over before they breed. Certainly in dairy goats you should have a list of things that are unacceptable to deal with and at what point you put kids, or older stock down. Certainly what you are also going to do with male kids, especially if you aren't going to sell them for meat or eat them yourselves. The quickest way to go broke on the farm is to not have a breeding plan. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 01, 2001.

Good advice Vicky, Brian most animal shelters will put down a animal that is un healable, here they charge 10 dollars.Maybe try the shots first as you dont have anything to lose.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), April 02, 2001.

AMEN VICKI! i am so glad you mentioned the breeding plan. yes, that is so true. we found when we first began that its best to buy only the best to begin with, however, that is not always realistic for many just beginning. what you need to do is to get serious about breeding and then figure out what you are breeding for. i get so disgruntled with the members of our cooperative sometimes as they will brin g the most GOD-awful looking animals for sales and then cry and swear because the buyers won't even buy them. But there is a method to their reason for buying and a liability as well. For instance our coop is expected to pay mega bucks if we ship a goat with Cl and it is discovered in the slaughter, we then have to buy the entire mess the slaughterhouse had to discard. there are goat producers and then there are goat producers of what? i don't know. i am not being offensive here, just stating the facts. if you want to hav ehealthy quality animals you have to buy good stock initially and then take care of them. you also have to only keep the numbers you feel you can realistically take care of well. Gosh, guess i sound a bit harsh, but I am only pointing this out not only from our experiences long ago raising Nubians but from seeing the results from our fellow meat goat coop members. As for the kid, how is the kid doing? I think the best thing to do is to put that little one down if its sufferring. it won't stand a chance. And if you were to try to sell it for meat it would probably not bring a good price unless you live in a area where they pay mega bucks for such goats. The whole key is as Vicki said, a good breeding program and a good herd management program. I really admire and respect the work of the late alpine breeder, Don Smith, sodium Oaks, his philsophy was, "Keep the best, cull the rest!"

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), April 02, 2001.

Brian after all the sound and fury has passed......How is the little doe? I hope she is still a pet.

-- greg (gsmith@tricountyi.net), April 04, 2001.