Two does this morning. I left them alone because mother seemed more upset by me being there. Checked later and although she nuzzled them, she isn't showing interest in nursing. I felt her bag and it is warm but not hot. I was able to get milk from one tit but not the other and she is getting annoyed with me. The kids don't seem to know what to do since first trying. What should I do? One kid seems to be getting weak...

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), March 28, 2001

Answers

Congratulations on getting does :-) They really do need to nurse right away. I try to make sure they nurse at least a little right away, even if it takes a lot of fussing with them. Some does will teach a baby to nurse on their own, and some seem to need a lot of help. Once they have found the teats on their own a time or two, the kids will usually do fine, that is assuming the doe is not rejecting them. But I think if she is nuzzling them, they just need a little more help. Hold the teat in their mouths if necessary to get them to suckle a little, and come back and do the same again in a little while. Good luck.

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), March 28, 2001.

Okay, update. Other doe was chasing Mom so I seperated them. The one tit that was blocked, I opened with warm, soapy water. I got one kid to nurse (had to lock up mom) but other was too weak. Drove her to the vet (I meant to get a tube but...)and tubed her right there (glad I learned how to milk a cow before all this) She got about 50cc's. She seemed stronger when we got home. Put them all together and will try to teach her to suckle in an hour. If not, more tubing.

I can't find the post that explained all this. It's driving me crazy.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), March 28, 2001.

Is it warm enough in the barn for a weak kid ? You may want to try a bottle before you tube again .Good luck .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), March 28, 2001.

I had a doe do this to me just a few days ago. She seemed to like the baby, but wouldn't nurse it, and was acting stupid and dull witted. She had a touch of milk fever last year, so that could be part of it. There are a few reasons for a doe to act the way yours is. She may have been bottle fed and not have the mothering instinct down real well.

*The birth may have been really hard and or she has injuries which leave her feeling too crummy to mother the kids or do much of anything else.

*When the kids try to nurse, the doe experiences afterpains, which can be as painful as labor. It happens mainly when her teats are touched or milked, so she associates the kids with the pain and begins to avoid them. A doe with afterpains will often paw furiously wit her front feet while the kids are nursing and then wrench herself away from them.

*The doe is stressed and cannot mother the kids adequately because of her surroundings( maybe there are dominant goats threatening her or too many people or even dogs in the pen.)

*The kids do not smell right because they've been handled before she can bond with them.

* Sometimes the doe is just too tired and exhausted from the birth to pay attention to the kids even though she feels motherly towards them.

*The doe likes the first kid so well that she could care less about any others!

At any rate, the longer she rejects the kids, the less chance there is she will take them back. Putting her in her own pen was a good idea and will help considerably. Tie her up at least three times a day, four or five times a day is better, and maybe give her a little grain while you help the weak kid to nurse. If she looks back and then bites the kid, stop her. Do not let her kick the kid, hold her leg if she tries. The kid will sometimes get discouraged and intimidated if the doe is allowed to act hostile towards it. If she had a hard birth, and even if she didn't, it would be nice to offer her a warm drink to help her feel better and give her energy. mix two or three gallons of very warm water with about 1/2 cup molassses and 1/4- 1/2 cup cider vinegar, maybe a little loose salt if you have some. She lost a lot of fluid during the birth and needs fluids to get a good start on lactation. I would make her nurse the kid as often as practically possible, until it looks like she'll nurse it unrestrained and the kid has enough strength to run up and nurse vigorously. It's a hassle to make her nurse them so often, but still a lot less work than bottle feeding the kid. I wish you success.

-- Rebekah (daniel@itss.net), March 28, 2001.

Okay, another update.

Tried to tube baby again and it put up a fight. Figured if it was strong enough to fight, it was strong enough to nurse. Lock Mom's head again and nursed stronger kid first. (baby had an easier time finding the teat this time and nursed vigorously. Mom stood calmly and ate hay. And now I know how to spell teats) Weaker baby (I've decided to call Shelly) sucked good on my finger after putting honey on it (thank you whoever suggested that on another question) and I put a little honey on the teat but she had trouble getting the idea. I think this is when Mom gets upset, me trying to shove the thing into the baby's mouth past those little teeth. Got her to suckle for a short while then couldn't get her to continue.

I put a heat lamp in the corner for the kids. (they kept wobbling away for a while) I closed off the resting bench and kid house so no one gets separated from each other and Mom has to be near the kids. I offered her warm water with molasses she took a taste but that was all. (she doesn't take treats either)

I really believe the problem was the other doe. She kept acting like the kids where hers and butting Mom. This doe is now in labor (oh boy) so hopefully once they get established with their own kids I can take down the fence I quickly put up.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), March 28, 2001.

Fun, fun, fun, and all in one day :-) I do like to give the does a separate place to kid if possible. Some do fine together, I guess, but others can be quite bossy. I think a doe needs her own space for kidding and a day or two beyond. I've done the heat lamp in the corner for kids when it is still cold out. Just be sure you have it secured in a way that they cannot knock it down. Hope you get does again:-)

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), March 28, 2001.

Does anyone remember the name of the post that had all the information about tube feeding. I believe the baby unfortunatly died in the end but it had soooo much information.

My printer wasn't working well at the time and I said that I'd remember the post...

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), March 28, 2001.

If these does came from a long line of milkers, they may not know what to do with the kids and may really reject them. I finally sold one of my nubians because of this problem and my other ones are so-so mothers. I have a bottle baby in the house right now because it was the second baby and the mother ignored it and it was too small any way. At 4 days old, it is doing just fine.

-- beckie (sunshine_horses@yahoo.com), March 29, 2001.

All is well, thanks.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), March 30, 2001.

Renee had the tube feeding for goats .I can walk you threw it if its the same as cows.Learn now before you have to .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), March 30, 2001.