Just read a post from several days ago regarding homesteading on a city lot. Some of the responses got me to thinking about my own situation.... I am 40 years old, a single woman who loves country living and the idea of self-sufficiency. I live on 15 acres, but my homesteading activities are currently limited by the fact that I travel a lot for my job. In spite of that I manage to keep 16 hives of bees, several worm bins, and 4 chickens. I do not really have a garden this year but keep an herb garden going in Earthboxes, and I have a lot of flowers in containers. I did plant some tomatoes, but I don't have a reliable irrigation system for when I am away- it's hit or miss if they survive. My mortgage will be paid this year, and I have been making plans to retire from my job and implement several projects which will allow me to earn the bulk of my income from the property. I have spent a lot of time, energy, and money learning about and preparing for this transition, and I am now 10 mortgage payments away from making it a reality. So, wouldn't you know it, an old yuppie boyfriend has popped back into my life, and things are getting serious enough that I am starting to rethink my plans for my future. Obviously, we have some things in common, but here are some things we DON'T have in common: we both have 2 vehicles, but he drives a Porsche and a BMW; I drive a 1996 Ford Ranger, and my second vehicle is a 1954 Chevy pickup. He lives in a subdivision in North Dallas; I live on my land in Fl. He has a lawn service; I have a 1949 Ford 8N tractor with a mowing attachment. He plays computer games; I play in the compost pile. I like to garden and cook; I don't think he even EATS vegetables! He recently bought a Play Station; I recently bought a chipper/shredder. I love to camp- he hates it cause he doesn't like to get dirty! Although, he did say recently that he thought he might be ready to try a camping trip, but when pressed for details, we figured out that his idea of camping would be to pack his clothes in a backpack and then check into the Ritz Carlton- I don't think we'll be camping together this summer. I could give a hundred more examples but I think the disparity in our lifestyles is clear. So, what am I gonna do if I have to make a choice between living here alone or marrying this yuppie guy? It's a no brainer- I'll take the guy. He's the love of my life and so many things have happened in both our lives that have kept us apart in the past (including the fact that we have each had, and survived, cancer, so time has been spent apart dealing with our respective health issues). And what about my CS lifestyle? Well, as much as I would love to stay here on this farm and earn my living from it, I realize that I could definitely be happy in other circumstances. I would insist on at least a house with a yard, and as long as I could keep a garden; a few beehives; my chicken tractor with my 3 little laying hens (I could be persuaded to give up the rooster!); and maybe a few rabbits, I would be satisfied. I agree with JD's oft-repeated philosophy that homesteading is a state of mind as much as it is a matter of living on a large piece of property, and I don't think my basic attitude would change. It is encouraging to me to read posts from other people who "homestead" on city lots- I may be emailing you guys asking for advice soon! On the other hand, maybe I can convert my yuppie to my way of living! He might have potential- he has visited here a couple of times already this year and is coming down again next week. He always wants to feed the chickens first thing every morning- in fact, he has even named them all (good thing they are layers and not broilers!). I "gave" him one of the hens (Alice), and he frequently emails to ask about her. Best of all though, he loves the privacy and the quiet that we enjoy out here in the woods. So, I am keeping my fingers crossed that I won't have to make the choice. Wish me luck.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), March 25, 2001

Answers

Well, I guess you better figure out what you expect out of this guy. If you end up living out in the country and you get to have your hobby way of life, are you gonna be really ticked off if he doesn't help you? My husband was from the city and we slowly moved into homesteading. Anyway, the kids and I did most of the outside work ourselves and he helped with the first and last times of tilling the garden, butchering, putting up a chicken coop, the bigger jobs, etc.. He grew into loving the animals and bragged about the home grown taste. He worked full time in town, I didn't, so that gave me more time here. I even got him into loving to bow hunt! Find your limitations of what you can and can't take and the same goes for him. If you keep it small and add one thing at a time or increase the size of your bee hives, then it's not such a shock.

-- Pat (mikulptrc@aol.com), March 25, 2001.

Yes, the no-brainer is to chose the guy. And give up everything you've worked for over the years. To probably end up divorced and with nothing left to show for it except memories. Or USE YOUR BRAIN and keep your lifestyle and look for a man who fits into it. I'm 48, been divorced for 6 years now and have had to start all over again. I made that no-brainer choice 3x, and while I wouldn't trade my sons for anything, I wish I'd stayed focused on the life I wanted and waited for someone who shared that dream. Anything can happen to the relationship but you'll find over time that you have more differences in the values area than are comfortable to live with. You can dismiss this as sour grapes but it's just the result of hard learned experience. I don't hate men and may find someone who thinks along the same lines enough to stay with. But, I won't give up my life or values just to have a companion. Think long and hard with your BRAIN and not just the hormones and heart.

-- Deborah (bearwaonan@Yahoo.com), March 25, 2001.

YIKES!!! OK, I can only share my own experience; everyone has to do what they think is right for themselves. I've been married a few times, and spent way too much of my life living/doing what made some guy happy, mostly because I really didn't know what would make ME happy. I've been single for almost 4 years, and I know exactly what I want; a place way out in the country, and to live as simply as possible. Enter boyfriend. I told him (today!) that I bought land in MO and will be moving in a year. He's not a yuppie, but I really don't expect him to be overjoyed about my decision. I told him that he can be included in these plans or not, the decision is his. I wish he were thrilled, and that our dream was the same (he has no dreams, I've asked), but I will not give up my dream. He may decide to join me, and he may not. Either way, I'm going.

-- Cathy in NY (hrnofplnty@yahoo.com), March 25, 2001.

wow-didn't expect such strong opinions, but I certainly respect and appreciate all the advice, especially from women who have been in similar situations. As for Pat's advice, I don't really have ANY expectations from him as far as helping out around the place, but if he wants to help I'd certainly let him! I've managed so far by doing everything myself or hiring help, so I guess I'd just keep on doing things that way. As for Deborah and Cathy's advice, let me clarify that the point of my post was that I already know that I could be happy with less land, and a lower degree of self sufficiency than I would seek if I stayed here. The point was that it is possible to live on a smaller property and still engage in some of the activities which we think of as "homesteading" ones. And, if I did decide to leave, it would be because that is what would make me happy, not just to make the yuppie boyfriend happy. Besides, whatever happened to "Home is where the heart is"?. And, finally, although I am willing to compromise in some areas, I am pretty adamant that I would keep the worms, bees, chickens, compost piles, etc.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), March 25, 2001.

Why rush the choice? My sweetie was a dyed in the wool City boy, a musician and a taxi driver with a house on a city lot with more neighbors than you could shake a stick at. Well, we dated and dated and he visited and he visited and then slowly but surely he decided that he would like to be here, instead of there, so made the move. Of course, the transition took time, but now here's the best part. He no longer drives a taxi, still plays music and is farming full time and he likes it. It was his decision to come here, for I couldn't give this place up unless it was to buy a nicer place (one with a completed house? maybe?). So I guess I am saying, that maybe if boyfriend keeps visiting, and you keep doing what you're doing, he might start to like "helping" out around there and doing some stuff with you. Maybe be a change from videoland into reality. My fiance says the best part of being here is the peace and quiet, so maybe you and yours could work out a suitable arrangement which would allow you to keep your farm and make the improvements to it that he would like. You know, a mini-ranch, farmette kind of thing that yuppies like to show off to their friends? As in "our place out in the country" when talking about the weekend plans. Good luck and hang in there, he might be a closet homesteader and not know it yet!

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), March 25, 2001.

Do you ultimately share the same dreams? Is it your dream to follow this path with a like-minded mate? If you have doubts, then follow your heart and think this out carefully. It is good for couples to have different interests, but life dreams are another thing. If you go into this relationship and give up *your* dream in order to make the relationship survive, then you may spend the rest of your life regreting what could have been. You also want to consider if you should compromise your values for the sake of having a partner. Good luck!

-- amy (acook@in4web.com), March 25, 2001.

Put YuppieBoy to work earning a homestead living by letting him "play" on the computer, creating and maintaining your "estate's" web site, marketing of products, meeting with buyers or produce and advertising. Very upscale yuppie stuff, which he is undoubtedly good at and enjoys. Find out what he likes to do and find a way to incorporate it into a homesteading lifestyle. Is he outdoorsy, in an Outward Bound sort of way? Buy up 50 acres and partition off the bulk of it (forested) to run weekend paintball "wars" for uptight yuppies who need to let off steam, complete with camping out, nature hikes, and a big ol' bonfire to end it. This is a good way to take advantage of undevelopable, conservancy eased, non-perking chunks of "wasteland", the more impenetrable, the better. Is he into fashion and the Town and Country set? Design and produce organically grown, hand made cashmere scarves and let him work his magic with nearby (and not so nearby - thank 'You Know WHo' for cyber-marketing) boutiques and upscale men's shops. Is he into books? Web publishing is becoming the next hot thing.

Just remember - a homestead's "owners" are just as much a part of the homestead's resources as the stock, the land, and the timber rights. Find out what everyone wants to do (the easiest way is to ask what they'd do if they were going to retire tomorrow with all the cash they'd ever need) and find a way to make it pay. Charter-boat guys get paid to fish all day, for crying out loud - your desires can't be any less "marketable" than that!

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), March 25, 2001.

Go for it. If its meant to work , it will. Lynn and I fit into the scenario you describe.Her world was the simple, country one, mine was the science based, technology one. We kid each other about how our worlds collided here in the country. She has her quilting and sewing room,I have my library and computer and we both have our gardens.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), March 25, 2001.

I reread your post several times. One thing that comes to my mind is this; in time, will you become more disturbed by the way he makes his living? As a country girl, I could not see myself with someone who sprays toxic chemicals on the earth, day in and day out. The men that I've known who drive BMW's, etc., see most everything as an adornment, including women. I think that early in a relationship, it's easy to downplay the differences, and shine a spotlight on the things we have in common. I'm not talking about you in particular, just women in general. You've given me a lot to think about. I've uprooted myself a few times so I could be with a man, and have been left feeling like I'd made a terrible mistake. And as Deborah said, I had to start all over. I'm not trying to bash your boyfriend, I guess it's more sharing experience, that's all. I really do wish you the best.

-- Cathy in NY (hrnofplnty@yahoo.com), March 26, 2001.

I'm old enough to be your mother,so I am going to write like I am. Never give up your dreams for another person! Think long and hard before you make a commitment. I wonder that this person would make your life better or not. Does he completely realize your dreams and is he willing to commit to your life style? For goodness sake, don't gamble your happiness on the chance he may come around. Now, maybe you should think about putting your cards on the table with him and lay out the facts. If he can live your lifestyle, fine, but, if he can't, I think you will be miserable. Take a long walk, Elizabeth, around your land. Breathe that fresh air. Watch the sunset. Listen to the chickens. Then ask yourself if you could turn your back and walk away. God bless!

-- Ardie from WI (a6203@hotmail.com), March 26, 2001.

I just wanted to point out that there is one very big difference between you and your boyfriend. He lives a consumption lifestyle and you do not. The fact that you have almost paid off your mortgage shows that you are very strongly towards that bent. He, on the other hand is into buying expensive items. Did he pay cash or are they all financed? I'll be willing to be they are all financed. Remember, finances is one of the main reasons that marriages have problems. When two people are at opposite poles, as it appears you two are, on this important issue, it is very hard to overcome that. He will feel he is being deprived if you operate the way you like and you will feel like you are wasting money and always in debt if you operate the way he likes. Neither will be happy. Along with what others said about think about yourself first, please think about this issue as well. It will be the one that tears the two of you apart if you go with him.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), March 26, 2001.

Elizabeth,

YBF (yuppie boy friend) is lifetime material for a farm gal IF 1. he sold stock to pay cash for the Beamer or 2. he restored a classic Porsche 3. has kept an old clunker running for 5 years in college and 4. is an intiate of the mysteries of duct tape and GoJo 5. thinks a tool kit is not a piece of software 6. camping is a time to eat canned beans and revert to 3rd grade humor 7 does not run screaming into the house when a dog tick drops on to his shirt, but calmly flicks it off. 8. helps you fix the tractor, mower, plumbing, etc. 9. you have to drag *him* out of the farm store

from the wife of now-converted 4 generation city boy

Sara

-- Sara (urthmomma@aol.com), March 26, 2001.

Elizabeth,

Wasn't trying to bash the boyfriend, per say,but I think you can see by the tone of most of the responses is a lot of us have been there. Yes, we felt we could compromise, do with less than what we had, in order to follow our "hearts". But, while it may work for awhile, you more than likely have core value and moral differences that will ultimately seperate you, and you will have given up what you worked so hard for. While the blush is on the rose it's hard to see the faults in it. I do wish you well and happiness....but I'd stick to the farm and let yuppie boy make the change..who knows it may be in him.

-- Deborah (bearwaoman@Yahoo.com), March 26, 2001.

Read your post; got a few good chuckles! Been there, done that. Me and Mr. Maybe just didn't have the same dreams, oh well... Now, I ask you: picture yourself with this nice man and without all you've worked for. Will you regret this? Is it worth giving up your heart's aspirations? Would you be happy in the 'burbs? I would feel a hole in the deep pit of my heart if I gave up my pseudo-country life (still work in town, drive 26 miles one way, etc). Yes, I think if you both have a win-win situation, you can do it. I also think you could homestead in the 'burbs of Big D. But it sounds like you'd be lost without your farm. Good luck to you; I'm sure you'll both make it work if it's meant to be! dh in nm

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), March 26, 2001.

There is a VERY old saying about people who are contemplating marriage. "He thinks she will never change, and she believes he will". They are both wrong! GL!

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), March 26, 2001.

An important question - why are all of the compromises coming from your end. You've articulated what you are will to "give" on, but what does he want in the long term? What will he give up to make it possible for you to do what you want? I agree with those who have said that the deepest problem will be in the difference of values, not lifestyle. Does he see anything troubling about his own materialism, or his social/economic choices? These things are likely to come up in thousands of little ways over the course of the marriage.

I married a city boy, not sure that I really wanted to farm. I discovered I did, and that I need to, but city boy has grown into the same place (slowly) alongside me. But this was only possible because we both went into the marriage willing to meet the other 1/2 way. No matter how much you love him, run - do not walk, in the other direction, if he isn't going to work as hard to find a middle ground with you as you are with him. If he loves the Beemer more, he always will.

Good luck -

-- Sharon (astyk@brandeis.edu), March 26, 2001.

Brad makes a good point! Experience has proven this to be true, for me anyways. That's one of the reasons I'm still single at 52. Good luck whatever your decision.

-- Bob Johnson (Backwoods_Bob@excite.com), March 26, 2001.

What's the most important thing to you, security or fulfilling your dreams? Are you really in love with him? Is your homestead dream a hobby, a fun thing to think about, or is it what you really want? Even if you persuade your beau to your way of thinking and it's not for real from his heart then what good is it? Neither one of you will ever be fulfilled. Being in love is wanting the other person to be the best he/she can be. God Bless

-- Cindy (SE In) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), March 27, 2001.

Hey Lizabeth! After all the think'n I can do---I've come up with something. Does he play the banjer? Is it bluegrass music or southern Gospel? Thats about the most I can come up with! Special if'n ya'll can play the fiddle or guitar, mandolin or bass. Of course this answer is stupid but if you have not much in common it will be exceedingly hard to endure. Lots of good advice already posted and I think ya'll have already made your choice--just want'n confirmation. Life can be very difficult but when ya'll are pull'n in diffeent directions- in the harness-it probably won't last. Matt.24:44

-- ole hoot, the banjer pick'r. (hoot@pcinetwork.com), March 27, 2001.

Elizabeth, chickens are cheap... Count the cost, then follow your heart! I'm there for ya! ....

-- The Action Dude (theactiondude@yahoo.com), March 27, 2001.

wow baby dont count your chicks before they hatch.Always follow your dream.A man comes along like trains,you only get one farm.pray pray then pray some more. God Bless

-- joyce tucker (earth_lady@webtv.net), March 29, 2001.

Elizabeth, I've been happily married for almost 20 yrs. and I have 1 problem with your post. It's a MAJOR problem, tho. Ok, it's OBVIOUS how much you love him and are willing to give up for him, but how much is he willing to give up for YOU? Will life with him ALWAYS be this way? How many 'compromises' over your own life and dreams are you willing to make? Do you think in 10 yrs. after continually giving up more and more, you're still going to love this guy?

I'm the one here who 'compromises' the most. I adore my husband and I really do put up with MUCH MORE than any woman would, I hear it ALL the time, too. I'm the one who wants to do the BIg garden, raise the chickens, (I want a cow now)....we live on a river, hubby works full time, and he likes to put a tent up in the late spring and camp and fish....But, I built the chicken house, SORT of. I started it with scrap wood. Next thing I know, he's bringing lumber home for me to work with, so it wouldn't be so hard figuring out HOW to make what I had 'work'. Then he did the roof for me, because he didn't want me to fall off and get hurt. He keeps the tiller going and tills every chance he gets, he sets up the rainbirds for watering and is ALWAYS fixing the leaks from the faucets.

He doesn't eat vegetables, except peas from the garden. For a 'gift' the other day, he brought home a 5 gal. waterer for my baby chicks.

His job is supposed to have him go to CA for 5-7 mos. the end of summer, and he has refused to go since he started this project. Why? Because his wife and family need him. I'd give anything up he asked me to, and I know he'd do anything I asked him to. The POINT is, we'd do ANYTHING FOR each other to make each other happy. I hate sleeping out in the tent in the summer or in the cool weather. I do sometimes, tho, but he also has the kids come and 'camp' with him to give me my break.....

There's a LOT of give and take within a marriage. It's not a good idea to give all or take all....Why can't he live out at your place while he 'works' in the city? Why do either of you have to give it 'all' up? If he's driving a BMW, you'll probably live in a neighborhood where they have those associations that you're not allowed to leave your garage door open, have a clothesline, much less worms, or chickens, and grow only flowers, never veggies....These are things that need TALKED about. One of the things we talked about was to do as much as we could to make EACH OTHER happy. But, to take your heart's desire from one another to be together is wrong.....you should BOTH be trying to fulfill each other's heart's desires.

-- Louise Whitley (whitley@terraworld.net), March 29, 2001.

In regards to what Louise had to say above, I personally think it's best if "most" of the "hearts desires" of each are basically on the same level. If there are too many differences sooner or later one or the other is going to decide this isn't going in the right direction and will probably put an end to the relationship. IF however one or the other "knows" they can sacrifice their way for the others without it being a real burden to themslves down the road, then I'd say go for it. Otherwise I'd go really really "SLOW" as far as getting married and packing it all up and moving away to another area. My 2 cents on the subject. I decided a long time ago I will stay single until when and if I can find somebody that's as close to my desires in "most" things as possible. Ain't found them yet, may never either, so be it. Fortunately I've always been happy and comfortable alone for the most part, so if I never find her I'll survive. And if I do find her......wooooo hooooo as Homer Simpson would say!

-- Bob Johnson (Backwoods_Bob@excite.com), March 30, 2001.

This seems to be a popular thread. Elizabeth, I wouldn't weigh in one way or the other on this personal matter but I think it would be interesting to see how many people on here married "the love of their life", and how long it lasted. And if they didn't marry "the love of their life", what did they marry?

JackD

-- JackD (jdenterprises@centurytel.net), March 30, 2001.

WOW what a thread. Elizabeth I married a "city" girl. It took 6 years but now she would rather watch the puppies play than go see an opera. She ditched the cadilliac for a 4-wheel drive Ford Explorer. Eating out now can mean McDonalds or a Pic Nic lunch at the park. What does this mean to you. "Relationships are two individuals willing to give and take to make each other happy" May sound kinda mushy but its my opinion.

I've moved my family twice so far. Once we tried in town in Kentucky, a few short months in Florida and now here in the rural outskirts of small town NC. We may move again if circumstances change. The one constanant is that we not only love each other but are In love. If you know the difference and can have both. I wish you a great and exicting life. Let us know how it turns out.

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), March 30, 2001.

BOY did this thread hit a nerve. I am a born and bred country person and married a "city man" when we both lived in a small town. I let myself believe that it would work if we could live near town rather than on an isolated farm/ranch. I thought he would be happy with easy "town access" and though it would be country enough to satisfy me. Believing and hoping it would work, I allowed myself to agree to the sale of the 3-generation ranch I grew up on and for 15 years we lived on a small acreage some 15 miles from town. I was never quite satisfied with the smaller acreage and I hated living where I could always see and hear neighbors. He never developed a love for country living and is now married to a woman he met at his workplace who does not live in the country. I no longer have the ranch where my true roots always were ... nor do I have a husband. Some people are able to adjust and some cannot, even if they wish they could. SFM

-- sharon michael (timberln@hyperaction.net), March 31, 2001.