Now that we have all these convenient categories, would anyone be interested in a vegetarian thread? I stroll through all the recipes and cooking stuff, but it all seems to be geared toward meat, which doesn't interest me (I know, it's simple: Debra, just leave out the sausage and you've got a vegetarian dish!). Well, it's just a thought, I don't know how many vegetarian homesteaders we have out there. dh in nm

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), March 09, 2001

Answers

I'd be interested. We do eat meat, but it's something of an occasional condiment. And I'm surely interested in staying away from other animal-based products. And... (blush)... humane issues.

-- witness (carlaevans@hotmail.com), March 09, 2001.

Hi Debra in NM, you got another veggie boondocks person here, can't say the other half is, but, bless his heart, he usually eats what I fix with few complaints! Your right, it's hard to come up with new and original good tasting vegetarian fare all the time, so I'd be interested in anything folks had to share. Here is on of my quick and easy favorites, all from stored foods.

Veggie Brown Rice

1 box instant brown rice fixed as directed on label

Add a few minutes before cooking is done:

1 small can mushrooms (use the cheap stems and pieces)

1 large can diced seasoned tomatoes or 1 quart homecanned tomatoes

1 can drained black beans

1 can drained garbanzo beans

1 can drained pinto or great northern beans

1 tablespoon Mrs. Dash salt free seasoning

1 small sweet onion, diced in small pieces

Simmer until all ingrediants are hot, be creative, add other ingrediants that come to mind, this is a forgiving "recipe".

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), March 09, 2001.

I've interested, I'm not a vegetarian, but I eat that way most of the time. I've only got several thousand vegegtarian recipes. Some extremely strict.

-- Cindy (SE In) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), March 09, 2001.

you know what the other name for a vegetarian is? here in se. ks. its lousy hunter. i couldnt resist the devils after me again. Bob se. ks.

-- Bobco (bobco@hit.net), March 09, 2001.

I'd be interested. I am a "lousy hunter", as Bob says. Have been for years, but I tend to cook pretty much just vegetables and rice or vegetables and noodles, nothing extravagant other than the mushroom stuffing I make every now and again or the occasional polenta. Mostly I do what you said and just remove the meat from recipes!!

I would like to know how to make bean curd though...anyone?

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), March 09, 2001.

Another vegetarian here - tho I eat eggs from my chickens, and dairy products. I would love more vege recipes. Some of the book ones aren't very realistic for "real people". The inst rice recipe sounds neat and I am going to try it. My husband isn't picky either. He eats what I cook, tho I usually cook some kind of meat thingie for him. I have tried some of the meat subsitutes from the stores and they are lousey. Tho, I have found a phoney bologny that makes for good sandwiches. Mostly I eat baked potatoes, pastas, rice, steamed veges and salads. Would certainly appreciate some yummy recipes!

-- cindy palmer (jandcpalmer@sierratel.com), March 09, 2001.

If you like the spicy flavor of sausage patties, but you are a veggie, I recommend "Gimme Lean" vegetarian "sausage".

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@ecoweb.net), March 10, 2001.

I have to say I like most of the 'fake meat' products. I was especially surprised at how much I enjoy the Morningstar Farms chicken nuggets and Hot wings. Boca and Morningstar have excellent sausage patties, really can't tell them from the real thing. THese products are expensive. I often get Textured Vegetable Protien (TVP) and add it to spaghetti sauce and casseroles, it makes a good beef sibstitute. Dianne

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), March 11, 2001.

Regarding meat substitutes: If you are sensitive to wheat or other grains, check the labels carefully. Many of them contain wheat. Also, my favorite "veggie" burgers, Boca Burgers, are made from soy -- and now I have read that they are using GMO soybeans to make them! >:-(

-- Joy F (So.Central Wisconsin) (CatFlunky@excite.com), March 11, 2001.

Cripes! Does it all come down to the healthiest food being that which you've raised? Meat or otherwise? I swear my chicken eggs are pampered and therefore less tragic than some soy products. I think you have to pick and choose, which can be variable depending on your food suppply/suppliers. Meanwhile, I am hoping to trade for some great meat soon.......

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), March 11, 2001.

Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. - Albert Einstein

I'm interested in a vegetarian thread. Right now I'm trying to figure out exactly what to do with the different kinds of tofu. Tofu is new to me. Got any suggestions?

-- debra in ks (solid-dkn@msn.com), March 13, 2001.

Debra, with all due respect to mr einstein, (if indeed he did say this), IMHO, nothing could be more disastrous to the health and future of the planet than a massive movement to vegetarianism. It is totally unsustainable and unnatural, and as for the so- called 'benefits" to human health, they are almost non-existant. I have encountered hundreds of vegetarians and ex-vegetarians in my work, whose health has been absolutely compromised by their well- meaning but inadequate diet choices.

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), March 13, 2001.

I'd love to participate in a vegetarian thread. Debra, here's an easy tofu recipe....make a marinade of 1 cup apple or orange juice, a few minced cloves of garlic, grate a piece of peeled ginger (you can use a teaspoon of dried ginger), about 1/3 cup soy sauce, and a pinch of cayenne pepper. Pour over cubed tofu and refrigerate for a few hours or longer. Lift from marinade and bake on cookie sheet at 350 for 15-20 minutes. You can simmer the leftover marinate and serve over rice with veggies.

-- Cathy in NY (hrnofplnty@yahoo.com), March 14, 2001.

I would love to see a thread on vegetarian dishes. I find a bit of satisfaction in being able to grow my own protien. Our local health food store had a book, Tofu Cookery by Louise Hagler, that includes instructions for making tofu from scratch. I am not much of a bean curd fan but some of these dishes are great. Also see. www.vrg.org.

Lynn

-- Lynn (lynnannmb@hotmail.com), March 14, 2001.

Earthmama, I think I can vouch for Debra in KS about the Einstein quote. I sort of feel a heated, juicy topic coming on... I'd like to know just how becoming a vegetarian would be the cause of the end of the world as we know it and how peoples' lives and health have become compromised due to a vegetarian diet?? Sure, if we all decided to quit eating meat, the ranching community would go into a tailspin, domino-ing into other facets of the economy, and in turn, effecting everyone.

For me, it's just healthier. I've recently gone veggie and was just curious IF we had vegetarian homesteaders out there, and also would like to see a separate topic for recipes without meat if there were enough interest. 'Tis all. I do eat fish and some dairy in moderation and supplement a lot now with soy (not bad stuff!), and I eat my own chicken's eggs. Some day I hope to have my own goat milk and cheese. Now, if I ever get to go back to Alaska and visit my countryside friends up there, you betcha I'll chow down on a plate of moose if I get the chance... and I know I won't be struck by lightening if I do!

Other reasons are mostly out of paranoia due to the quality of the meat & chicken we get in the grocery store... and I sure hate to admit that because I sound like a total kook! I think as homesteaders we are a healthier lot because we DO eat our own food. Do you realize how lucky we are? And how very sad for us as a nation that we just can't trust store-bought food any more. I think our society has gone way overboard on the obsession of eating meat 3 times a day. We are the most overfed and undernourished folks in the world! (not blaming meat per se as the sole cause, but the fact that most of our food is out of a box) Just sit down at the mall some day and watch people walk by. How many of them, in the supposed prime time of their lives, do you see that could help you stack a load of hay?

I'm not saying everyone needs to be a vegetarian.. that wasn't my intent on this posting. This is my own thing and it works for me, and I've never felt better, I weigh less, have more energy, sleep well, I CAN put up a load of hay (twice in one day; once in the truck, once in the barn). I'll be 50 this year, homesteading by myself... I work all day at a 'real' job 25 miles away, then come home and work some more and on weekends... like many of us. Call it a midlife crisis, but more & more, the future of my own health is of great concern to me. It is very true: your health IS your wealth. Good health to you all! dh in nm

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), March 14, 2001.

I would be a vegetarian except for the fact that I eat fish. Tofu has a zillion uses. "meat"balls, tofu loaf, marinated for sandwhiches etc. I really don't feel like copying a whole wad of recipes, but check out the moosewood cookbooks. There are about 3 or 4 of them. They use alot of dairy but I just substitute soymilk and soy cheese. I would eat dairy except it makes me feel crappy. As far as veg. heads being unhealthy.. not me. Why wouldn't it help the planet if McDonalds stopped mowing down rainforests for their livestock? I don't have anything against others eating meat(like responsible homesteaders), but I do think there is a problem with factory farming and the continual and rampant cases of e.coli and such.

-- Evelyn B. in NY (peontoo@yahoo.com), March 14, 2001.

Hi Debra, No heated discussions desired; this just happens to be one of my passions, so I have put much energy into research and study over the years.

As I said in my above post, the disaster I was referring to would be if massive numbers of people decided to become n0n-meat eaters. My concerns have nothing to do with the economic effects to the conventional cattle-producing paradigm, but to the ramifications to the environment. Protein substitutes are not only controversially suspect in terms of comparative quality, they absolutely cannot be produced in a sustainable manner. Monoculture is already an enviromental disaster in this country, and to increase the amount land already dedicated to the growing of vegetable protein (mainly soy) would necessarily require even more massive amounts of chemical inputs.

I have absolutely no quarrel with people who choose for various reasons to forgo eating meat (although that is another topic of great interest to me!). What IS important to me, however, is doing my bit to make people realize that there is nothing superior about this decision (we've all been around the vegetarian crusaders, who are as obnoxious as religious ones), either morally, environmentally, or as a matter of health for the vast poplulations of citizens. Small, diversified farms, which must of necessity almost always include some animals in order to be a sustainable circle of life, growing food for people as close to that farm as possible, is the only model that will save the planet from enviromental, agricultural annihilation.

The health issues involved I will be happy to discuss, but it seems disrespectful for me to do so on this thread, so maybe some other time.I certainly agree the American diet is typically grim, but to my mind it has more to do with processed food and an overabundance of carbohydrates. Real food comes from nature, not a factory.

I am very happy for you, or anyone else, by the way, who is feeling healthy and strong; life is not much fun when one feels lousy.

Blessings!

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), March 14, 2001.

I enjoy vegi food very much and lots of experience with soy,It may be easier to track recipes if listed by type or main ingredient, such as soy; type of grain; color of vegetable etc.

The best tofu I have made was using Natural Nigari. I'll check on my supplier to make sure they are still in busness it has been awhile since I needed to buy any thing.

I like to know lots of options for exchanges and to experiment with new things, do any of you use flax seed for eggs? I haven't done that yet.

-- Thumper (slrldr@aol.com), March 15, 2001.

There is no way I could be a vegan. I simply like cheese WAY too much! I do think that people need to focus on things other than just soy products for protein. Nuts are great sources of protein as well.

To give a nod to Earthmamma and the health aspects you MUST focus on getting enough protein. When I was first a vegetarian, simply because I could not afford meat, I got sick quite often because I wasn't getting nearly enough protein. Probably not enough of the B's as well. Anyway, I just wanted to say that there are things to be aware of and NO it isn't a "superior" eating choice, it's just a choice.

So is there enough interest for us to get our own litlle topic, do ya think?

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), March 15, 2001.

We are predominantly vegetarian except when there is an extra animal that has to go. That brings me to a question. If everyone on earth, or even most of us, were vegetarians, most of us would also be vegans of necessity OR at least half the calf/kid crop plus worn out dairy animals, would be used for nothing but dog food or fertilizer. It just seems to me as though you can't have your milk, butter and cheese, and a whole world full of vegetarians.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), March 16, 2001.

Hi Rebekah, I doubt that most of the world would become vegetarian, and yes, I think most of the old or undesired dairy animals would end up being dog food. If my dogs had to live off of my animal slaughters they would have to be vegetarian as well. I know some people do that, but I don't because it seems to me that dogs haven't a choice in the matter and for the simple fact that they are dogs. Veganism has a lot of things that can become really problematic on the nutritional front. You have to learn quite a bit and be too preoccupied with food all the time for my sensibilities. I know several vegans and it seems that they have to think about food 24/7. It makes it terribly difficult to travel at all. Just my observation.

I think it's been stated a number of times already that no one here is saying that everyone should be a vegetarian. I'll cite my credo " I will eat what I can kill"; the thing that I think is terribly wrong with our average food supply is that people have generally no concept of the entire process and massed produced meat is really not humane. I think it would be actually a lot better for folks if they would raise as much of their own meat as possible.

I'm going to get rabbits for their manure for my garden and as a "just in case" for my dogs. When it comes down to can I kill so that something I love can live the answer is most definitely yes.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), March 16, 2001.

You don't have to eat beef, chicken, pork, fish, or dairy products to be healthy. You can get all the nutrition you need from plant based foods except for vitamin B12 and an occasional egg will take care of that.

I find it hard to believe that growing more soy beans and producing the by products from them would be more harmful to our environment than raising the food to feed animals, the by products from the animals (such as cow s--t), the health issues regarding the steriods, and antibiotics and whatever else are given to these animals that end up in our bodies, and then whatever it takes to slaughter these animals to produce the meat found in those styrofoam trays, the money it costs to transport it to stores, the electricity it costs to keep it cold. I'll take soy beans and an egg from time to time from my own chicken or at least from a chicken I know.

Debra, I have a quick to fix dinner that is a complete protein, with some greens thrown in.

I cook, say a pound of black beans, divide them up in one cup containers and freeze them, I do the same with brown rice, only I freeze them in 1/2 cup portions. I cut up and freeze on a tray scallions, bok choy, collards, leeks, portabello mushrooms, and anything else like that. After they freeze I put each thing in their own baggie in the freezer. I thaw my individual serving of legumes, and brown rice. I put the legume of choice in a pot and take a handful of scallions, and greens and mushrooms and simmer for a few minutes and then add the brown rice and viola, its dinner. I have fish a couple of times a week, baked with scallions, a tiny bit of butter (my only dairy) and lemon juice with brocolli or squash. Yum, yum. Often for lunch I have two slices of Ezekial bread (it's sprouted grain bread) with mustard,a couple slices of avocado, tomato and soy cheese with blue corn chips and a few sweet potato chips. I vary that with "nature burger". I also have oatmeal or peanut butter on Ezekial bread for breakfast and three or four fruits for breakfast. And if you like coffee, vanilla soy milk in it is delicious, the soy milk has to be warmed first or it separates. Bon appetite!

Blessings, Judy

-- judymurray (nomifyle@aol.com), March 16, 2001.

If any of you ever get down to Ft. Myers, Florida check out ECHO (Educational Concerns for Hunger Org., 17430 Durrance Road). They are doing experiments with organic growing that apprentices take into third world countries. They then teach people how to grow their own food. Not only is it great for gardeners who are vegetarians, but also for those wishing to raise their own meat and fish. Their methods for growing the food necessary for a family to survive on a small plot of land (or no land!) are barebones and so simple! You cannot come away from this place without learning something that will enhance your own self-sufficient lifestyle. It's just a phenomenal experience to tour their gardens...you can learn so much! And, be sure to bring pad, paper, and camera if you ever get to visit! I certainly will be going again next year (and won't leave my camera behind the next time)!

-- Joanne Schaefer (JoOhio1@aol.com), March 16, 2001.

I'd really enjoy regular vegitarian receipe sharing, and general info. We are not vegitarian, but we do enjoy a variety of foods and food styles in our diet, and it's not unusual to have one or two meat free (aka vegitarian) meals a day. Vegan (completely meat and animals free products) meals are a rariety, as I use milk, eggs, honey, and cheeses regularly. I'd sure love even more variety though.

I simple tofu meal is to squash up tofu into your favorite spagetti sauce (tomatoe based) with a fork, and warm it up slowly (15 min. on low heat). Serve it over any of the pastas, cooked grains, lentils and beans, or rice mixes that you have around. I like to toss almonds and other nuts I have on hand into my sauces, too.

-- Marty (Mrs.Puck@Excite.com), March 16, 2001.

It is true that the more varity in the diet the better,you can get B12 from nutritional yeast, and use it like salt, in fact you can mix it with salt.

Food sensitivity is common, one may not tolerate soy, another corn, it doesn't make the food bad, I can not eat brown rice nor can my children. My mother can not eat eggs in any form with getting hives.

Rotation diets are very helpful to find which foods you should not use. In my family I am responsible for the food we eat. What if the roads are too bad to go to the store? What if the pay cheak is too short to buy food? What to do when there are no eggs or milk? What if some one is allergic to an ingredient? Is everyones energy level high? Is some one needing extra vitamins? All these things and more contribute to what we eat. The more I know the better I can do my job. What do you learn from slamming someone over the choices they make? All of my house hold are omnivores, I just don't get why people feel they have to argue.

-- Thumper (slrldr@aol.com), March 16, 2001.

Judy, your statement about growing more soybeans indicates to me that I didnt quite make myself clear. The current model of hauling livestock hundreds of miles to a central, overcrowded feedlot,feeding gross amounts of chemical-laden grains, regularly dosed with antibiotics, wormers,and god knows what else, is in every respect improper. Fact is, meat should not be produced this way; its bad for people (animal fat from grass-fed critters has an entirely different chemical make-up, a HEALTHY one, than does that of grain- fed animals), bad for the environment, uses enormous resources,bad for small farmers, small communities, is fertile ground for health disasters, and benefits no one but the huge corporations (and the govt which protects them) which are so fond of it. Animals should be raised as naturally as possible, for the benefit of all directly involved, and marketed close to home.

Animal manure is not a nusiance, its a valuable resource. Just like in nature, it should be utilized to help the grass grow, to aid in breaking down carbonacious material for the next season, to give life back from whence it came. This is the cycle of life in the natural world, and it would be impossible without the input (or rather, output!) of animals.

I absolutely believe that the planet can only be saved from the agrichemical assault that is killing it by empowering citizens to put their money where it counts. We all need to care enough to stop buying the crap at the supermarket; what you cant produce yourself, buy from a local direct-market producer. Know where your food comes from, and complain loudly and often when its being messed with. If it costs a little more, so be it; food is way too cheap in this country, and the price we are really paying is in health care. What's the point of eating at all if what you are eating is devoid of life- giving energy??

Blessings,

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), March 17, 2001.

When you convert some of those recipes which call for sausage or ham, eg. bean soups, you can get some of the smokiness into them by adding some Lapsang Souchong tea. It is a totally smoked tea, which frankly I can't actually drink, but I use it for cooking. Use the brewed tea, don't just toss in the dry tea leaves. You can get it online at teahousechoice.com.(...and just so's you don't think I'm shamelessly plugging my own business, I am selling the business in 13 days!)

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), March 17, 2001.

Earthmama, I did misunderstand what you said in your first post and now that you have clarified your position I absolutely agree with you. For the most part I like eating animal protein, but since I don't know where it comes from in the regular grocery stores, and the stuff at Whole Food is so expensive, that I just don't eat much of it. I am not a purist when it comes to being "somewhat" vegetarian and I am not in a position to grow my food (small amount of stuff in buckets at this point) and certainly not able to raise my own "meat" animals and frankly, I just don't think I could eat an animal that I knew and I know for sure 100% that I could not slaughter one. My great uncle use to name his cows after the little kids in the family and I was not a happy camper when he anounced that we were eating "Judy" this year, or any of my cousins either.

As far as animal manure not being a nusiance, that's true if it's handled properly, but I would almost be willing to bet that it's mishandled improperly on the "agrichemical" farm corporations. That's a lot of s--- to spread around.

I am willing to pay more for good food, but I do try to keep what I spend down by eating a basic, as well balanced diet as I can. At 54 I am seriously concentrating on keeping the good health that I have been blessed with.

Blessings, Judy

-- judymurray (nomifyle@yahoo.com), March 21, 2001.