Dear fellow christians, It bothers me that we have so little teaching and preaching about the Holy Spirit in our prostestant churches when He is the only way we can be empowered to live the christian life? At the beginning of 2001, I made a resolution that I was going to focus on living my life on the spiritual plane. I have since become more interested in the ongoing conflict between good and evil in the lives of human beings. As a christian, it is frustrating to me that very few people seem to be aware of who the Holy Spirt is and how he is our friend and enables us to understand the word of God and live by this word. It also appears to me that our prostestant churches tend to do God's work according to man's way. Warren W. Wiersbe said "It is futile to attempt to do God's work without the Holy Spirit". This reminds me of Jesus's words in John 15:5 where he said that "apart from me you can do nothing". Do you think that you can do anything better than the Holy Spirit? If the answer is no then I am requesting that our ministers focus more on the relevance of the Holy Spirit in our lives. However, the manner in which church business is routinely done suggests that some people believe that they can. It would be wise to pose this question during church meetings.

JazzMan

-- Anonymous, March 01, 2001

Answers

Jazzman:

Your post implies that the work of the Holy Spirit is conspicuously absent in contemporary preaching and theological teaching. I'm curious to know how have you derived such a wide sweeping conclusion? I personally know that the circles I find myself in the conversation is inundated with the work of the Holy Spirit. I suspect other folks experiences parallel mine. When I approach any problem, whatever the topic, economics, mathematics, law, religion, etc. I must first make a determination of finding. The determination of finding forms the basis for facts. Once I have properly analyzed these facts I can now proceed with offering a cure or "fix". If you choose to adopt my approach we need to discuss your "findings" first and your "fix" later. QED

-- Anonymous, March 01, 2001

Dear Mr. Dickens, I would like you to elaborate more on how the Holy Spirit is working amongst your circles of association. I am always fascinated by any teaching, discussion, or dialogue about the Holy Spirit. In response to your question, my methodology would not be accepted in your academic community because it is not empirical but purely anecdotal. Although, the Holy Spirit is working in the churches, it seems that the protestant churches have not done a good job of educating its members about the Holy Spirit. A simple research thesis to support my hypothesis would be that " The Knowledge of the Holy Spirit Amongst Christians is Inadequate". Inadequate would be defined as not being able to Identify who He is, what He does, why He does it, when He does it, and where He does it and back it up with scripture. A simple survey of protestant church members and subsequent statistical analysis could allow anyone to accept my research hypothesis or reject it. As I stated earlier, my observations about the lack of awareness of the Holy Spirit by most protestant churches are purely anecdotal. However, the modus operendi of many protestant churches suggest that church business is conducted in a secular fashion. For example, church members routinely fail to pray and fast before conducting church business. Church members routinely fail to go to bible study in significant numbers. Mr. Dickens, these observations are based on my experience, are you not willing to believe my suppositions until you have seen statistical evidence? Do you not believe that church members should pray and fast about all church matters before attempting them. Certainly, I cannot discern when one feels the presence of the Holy Spirit in worship, but if one does feel the presence of the Spirit, then there should be a change in ones life.

JazzMan

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2001

Hello Jazzman:

You opine, "I would like you to elaborate more on how the Holy Spirit is working amongst your circles of association. I am always fascinated by any teaching, discussion, or dialogue about the Holy Spirit. In response to your question, my methodology would not be accepted in your academic community because it is not empirical but purely anecdotal. Although, the Holy Spirit is working in the churches, it seems that the protestant churches have not done a good job of educating its members about the Holy Spirit. A simple research thesis to support my hypothesis would be that " The Knowledge of the Holy Spirit Amongst Christians is Inadequate". Inadequate would be defined as not being able to Identify who He is, what He does, why He does it, when He does it, and where He does it and back it up with scripture. A simple survey of protestant church members and subsequent statistical analysis could allow anyone to accept my research hypothesis or reject it. As I stated earlier, my observations about the lack of awareness of the Holy Spirit by most protestant churches are purely anecdotal. However, the modus operendi of many protestant churches suggest that church business is conducted in a secular fashion. For example, church members routinely fail to pray and fast before conducting church business."

Thanks for the thoughtful note. First, please call me by my first name. If you are not a current student you can dispense with the formalities for this BB discussion. Let me simply state that my circle of believers over the last twenty five years have incorporated a Holy Spirit-centered learning approach. The doctrine of the Holy Spirit is regularly described in Sunday School lessons, Prayer Meetings, Pulpit sermons and congregational fellowship. Again, I don't think this makes my expereince atypical but serves to illustrate that the prescence of the 3rd personality in the Godhead takes an active center stage. I accept your conclusion as reflecting anecdotal cases concerning the disappearing act for some churches in teaching about the Holy Spirit. I fully agree with your premise that a reliable guide for absorptive teaching about the 3rd Personality would be spiritual maturity and transformed lifestyles. Churches who omit this are indeed derelict in their theological duties. Perhaps one possible explanation for why some Christians understanding about the 3rd Personality is "inadequate" can be seen in lackadaisical personal Bible study habits.If one doesn't diligently search the Scriptures it is highly unlikely he/she can have a well-rounded understanding about matters of faith, grace and eschatology. Afterall, you are what you read. Your proposed research design would provide useful statistical data depending on the randomness of your sample. I like it!! Who knows, it might lead to a published article in a referred journal. Good comments and questions!! QED

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2001

Hi Bill, I am glad to know that your congregation has a Holy Spirit centered learning approach. I am also happy that you are so open minded to dialogue about the Holy Spirit. We need to have special symposiums and discussion in our protestant churches about Him. Over the years, I have heard all kinds of doctrinal disputes about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. As I recall, at least nine gifts of the Holy Spirit are described in I Corinthians 12 but in some churches the people have fixated on " speaking in tongues". Quite frankly, I have not heard anyone interpret after speaking in tongues. In other churches, they are fixated on prophecy . Now, I realize that there can be no doctrinal concensus amongst the protestant churches. However,we can certainly emphasize in our churches the need to pray and fast about everything. When was the last time you heard someone preach about fasting. You know, I am convinced that if the emphasis in our protestant churches was on encouraging us christians to submit our free wills daily to the Holy Spirit so that God's will for our lives would be accomplished; every christian would lead a successful life.

JazzMan

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2001

1)"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment". -- Mark 12:29&30/Deuteronomy 6:4&5. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2)"And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:" --John 20:22. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is, therefore, inconceivable to me that we could not know and teach the Holy Ghost, as we now have known, believed, and taught Him for two thousand years. For He is one with the Father and the Son. In short I believe all Christians know and teach Him, we simply differ in our methods of doing so.

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2001