I have been following the thread about the break-in. I am interested in folks' ideas for security, but without the use of firearms. Lots of us don't have them for a variety of reasons. Since there was so much interest in security in general, I felt we might share those non-firearm plans here.

We have a metal 'rope' escape ladder. We have two big dogs (one out, one in). We have outside lights that can be turned on/off by our bed as well as by the doors. We participate in an informal neighborhood watch. We all note strangers and know we can (and do) call in the wee hours to have assistance in checking out a situation.

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), February 26, 2001

Answers

We have a shotgun for hunting and for when there is an animal problem but we also have 2 lg. dogs that could handle most problems. I do not keep a loaded gun because of the children they are way to younge to understand them.We keep geese out by the backyard who let us know if anything is wronge back there,we also keep a pair by the driveway. And flood lights .

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), February 26, 2001.

I'd be interested to know, too! I do believe in using deadly force, but only when I feel it will be used against me or my family if I don't, but I would much rather take steps so that I won't be put in that position. I liked the idea someone suggested on the break-in thread of a "safe room" ~ one with a strong metal or solid-wood door, strong walls, an emergency cell-phone on a charger in case the "bad guys" cut the phone lines, and a window to get out of with a rope ladder inside if needed.

We will be building a bigger house in about 5 years, so I think I'll incorporate one of those inside the house. I think I'll add some metal bars inside covering the window opening, bars that can only be opened from inside the room (without a key if possible) so it will truly be an impenetrable room in case we have to hole up there 'til the cops come.

-- Wingnut (wingnut@moment.net), February 26, 2001.

I live 12 miles from the nearest small town on private roads we share with about 20 other families. We are a pretty tight neighborhood. We each have a phone list of all the other neighbors and know who is home when, and what kids may be home alone. If a strange car parks in our neighborhood, none of us has a problem with walking up to it, taking the license number then asking the occupant their name and their business. Every family with children has a mountain dog, australian shepard or other smart protector dog. We have one problem child in the neighborhood, his nickname is Pin~ata Boy and every girl in the neighborhood is instructed in swinging a bat.

As far as home security, I am amazed at the amount of people who think security lights are the answer. I've alway depended on darkness. With no lights on, my house cannot be seen from the road. Over the years, I've been passed by many prowlers who hit a neighbor's house that had "security" lights. The cover of darkness also gives me quite an eary warning system. If I hear a prowler outside, I will throw my power main to OFF while I dial 911 and my closest neighbor. A prowler does not know where the junk is, he is not aware of where the kid left the tricycle, Tonka toys and pile of scrap lumber. A prowler would have to use a flashlight, then I can see him. He will not see or hear me. The same with in the house. How will he get around without breaking his neck if there is no light? If he can get through the door, the first thing he will do is trip over the pile of shoes and boots, from there it will only get worse for an intruder. Remember, the entire time he is on my property, he is being seriously harrassed by a cow dog or two.

My first line of personal protection is a cow dog. I do not depend on them for complete protection. For me, anything that is in my hands is a deadly weapon, a handgun, varmint rifle, (gosh, Officer, I thought he was a raccoon trying to get into the chicken feed) baseball bat, splitting maul, filet knife, or a rock. (for the guys joking about flame throwers, hairspray and a ZIPPO is very effective) If you are unable to outsmart and subdue an intuder, then you better have a plan to run to safety, if you can.

A good security plan is one developed from critical thinking, not one from fear. The plan outlined above has worked as far as its needed to. I heard someone in the yard running into stuff, the dog barking and snarling. I threw the power switch off, called 911 then a neighbor. The neighbor pulled into my yard with high beams, off road lights 5 houndogs and a shotgun. I watched the whole thing from my darkened window. By time the sheriff got there, the guy was holed up like a skunk and ready for the cop to protect him.

One of the security issues that should be addressed is that burglars want to steal guns. They will target your home specifically if they know there may be guns to steal. We can't always take all our guns with us when we leave. Do you leave it on your nightstand? DON'T! When you leave home, make sure your guns are secured and out of the reach of thieves and kids. Don't be shooting your mouth off about owning guns and how many you got. It is a personal matter, keep it that way. I strongly support gun ownership, but own them responsibly. I feel just as strongly about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. The media likes to blow out of proportion a criminal buying a gun, but face it 99.9 % of the guns used by criminals were stolen from a legal owner.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), February 26, 2001.

Oh, and I think Bill Cosby used Jello on the floor. Handy stuff, Jello...

-- Action Dude (theactiondude@yahoo.com), February 26, 2001.

Laura, I agree with you re: those dusk to dawn lights. Thats why I can switch them on/off as I decide. In the past that has been when my neighbor arrived and then drove to the end of the drive while I walked in the dark (unbeknownst to the 4 kids riding their dad's %$#@ tractor at 3 AM) and kept a watch on my neighbor's safety while he blocked their path. His truck was more practical than my little Honda at the time!

Guess the new Australian shepherd/husky pup will grow to be a help.

Unfortunately the 'problem child' of the neighborhood is 30 now and has his own trailer on his family's land. So we are all very alert to his comings and goings. Oh, and I don't use cordless phones since the day this fellow showed up with a come-along after overhearing (!) conversation over a cordless. He was trying to be helpful to another neighbor who had gotten stuck in our drive...but we figured out the only way he knew was from the scanner. There went the handy cordless. And I liked having it in my pocket when I was out mowing or walking/working in the dark. Now I trust my dog to alert me to what I miss.

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), February 26, 2001.

Hello Anne, When I lived in the city, (Orlando Fl) I had a security system installed in the house. I was attached to all the doors and impregnanted in all the screens. The sheriff would be there in less than five minutes after the alarm went off. Now, I live in the country, (remote). We have two Shepards that will detect what we can not hear or see. Shotgun and handgun does the rest. Power can be disabled, dogs can be poisoned but, shotgun and handgun will alway work. God help anyone that gets past the dogs. Sincerely, Ernest www.communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks

-- Ernest in the Ozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), February 26, 2001.

Dogs are wonderful. I had a border/aussie cross who made me feel that there was no way ANYONE would ever get through him. He was the best watch dog I have ever encountered. I completely trusted that dog....he hated people who did cocaine and wouldn't allow them near me! Another thing you might consider since you have no desire to have a weapon as a back up, is the driveway alarms they have now. I have no experience with them, but they struck me as being potentially quite useful. It depends on your set up as to whether they would be effective, but it might be a help to you. Good luck!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), February 27, 2001.

I once read of a beekeeper who kept his hives right under the house windows. The thinking was that a burgler would use the hive as a step to break into the window, the bees would become aroused by someone tromping around on their house, they would swarm out and sting the perpetrator. I don't keep bees and have no idea if this would work, but it is an amusing thought, anyway. Sandy

-- Sandy in MN (jpevans_56353@yahoo.com), February 27, 2001.

I hear you Ernest, but this really is about NOT using firearms.

Don't know how I'd like my bees that close, but I have planted some prickly plants in my day.

I realize I also do other things like keep an unpredictable schedule (the nature of my business) and am sometimes at home with no vehicle in the drive. These are great days to hang laundry out....then when I might really be gone and hang laundry, well, it just looks like normal.

I walk in the dark with no flashlight, but with my dogs. I lock the doors when I am home alone. I leave nothing of value in my old cars...and occassionally lock them too. We have never been victims of gas theft, though other neighbors have. I believe this is because of our locking gas tanks on the cars.

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), February 27, 2001.

If a bad guy shows up with a gun, please give up...

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), March 01, 2001.

What is being discussed here is constructive.I have very strong opinions that are pro firearms ownership and have taken heat for it. (so what)Some people choose not to be armed with a gun and that is their right.I am surprised at how few posters have responded with totaly non firearms related defense ideas.I have always contended that the most dangerous weapon that man can possess lies between his ears.Mocking this personal choice teaches us nothing.Ripping folks a new ass for not being as smart as you think you are because you pack heat is devisive and serves only to devide us further.As much as I resent being called a "gunlover" by liberal bigots.I am not going to heckle people for their choices.Please join me in not doing it. greg

-- greg (gsmith@tricountyi.net), March 01, 2001.

If you come down our road as a neighbor or friend great. If you just need directions or infromation fine. We are very friendly to nice people even some not so nice. But if you come to do bad things be very very afraid. We live 45 minutes from the sheriff, 3/4 mile to the nearest neighbors. First you have to convence the dogs you are up to nothing, they are chows and german shepards and chows always have attitude problems. There are six 500 watt hologen lights on poles surrounding the buildings. All remote controled. The vehicles are parked inside the shop. No vehicles in sight don't mean we are not home, we may just not come to the door. The driveway devices that turn on lights or warn you when someone drives up really work. We have no small children, just me and the wife,so we would not have a problem with leaving loaded guns but we don't. As I am typeing this message I have my 45 in its sholder rig, a 22 mag in my pocket and my eight shot 12 guage hanging over the door. The wife is simularly armmed, no 22 mag in her pocket. Lived this way for so long that every one would think someting is wrong if we are not wearing weapons. Yes even to church. You don't mess with people that are known by all to be ready for you. Some people have a problem with the being armmed, but guess who takes the churchs money to the bank to make the deposit. Seems most people have moments when they like weapons around. BUT IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LEARN TO USE WEAPONS AND USE THEM RIGHT STICK TO A BASEBALL BAT. People that don't know how are a real danger to themselves and their loved ones when the poo poo gets into the air circulation equipment.

-- David (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), March 02, 2001.

Me? I don't like guns in the home. If I am at all uneasy I will have an escape route. If the bad guys want my gear, thats fine, they will probably still be loading their pick-up when I get back with the police. If they are after me then they will have to find me.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), March 02, 2001.

German Shepards are great, ours loves to sneak up behind people and eventually scare the bejabbers out of them, they really know when NOT to bark!!! German Shepards that weigh at least a hundred pounds are even better, the true German bloodlines are best for personal protection, this is a no nonsense type animal, and easy to train, loyal to the bone.

We have rose bushes under all otherwise easily accessable windows, those thorns make anyone think twice.

In my pickup, I keep a 9 volt stun gun in the glove box, and on my person I always, always keep a razor sharp (not kidding here, it's honed weekly and sharp enough to perform emergency surgery) knife that I have the skill and strength to use effectively.

I have the attitude that if someone comes at me with a gun, they better kill me with the first shot or they are in for a world of hurt. Guns don't impress me much, just takes more smarts to outfox the idiot with the gun.

Yes, security is entirely possible without firearms, it is also a state of mind that one has has towards life in general, one that says you do not have to be a victim of gun toting morons.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), March 02, 2001.

Gotta go with the dogs. I have an ancient lab mix that is the most loving dog in the world - most of the time. Had his littermate for 10 years as well and he was definitely a one-owner dog and not nearly as friendly. Both were/are great for protection, even the *friendly* one. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen him get defensive about his family and home but my philosophy is, if my dog doesn't trust you, I don't either. Yes, guns are fine but they aren't going to wake you up when someone is prowling around.

BTW, this is my first time posting here. Been lurking for awhile and really enjoy the conversations. I was a Countryside suscriber a while ago and have decided to try it again. We have finally found our permanent homestead (56 acres in rural Indiana), have 3 kids (homeschooled), and are looking forward to the serenity of country living.

-- Hoosiermom (hdnpines@hotmail.com), March 02, 2001.

If you're gonna use any kind of weapon be sure you know how to effectively use it.
A Baseball bat can be taken away.
A knife can, too.
An escape route is a really smart thing to have and Practice!

-- (perry@ofuzzy1.com), March 03, 2001.

A planned escape route is also just dandy if you get a fire in the home.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), March 03, 2001.

Hoosiermom: Congratulations on your new place, and a warm welcome to the forum!

-- Action Dude (theactiondude@yahoo.com), March 03, 2001.

Dogs are my first and second line of defense. Mine are Catahoulas, natural guard dogs and wonderful help with farm livestock, and I've raised them since discovering the abilities of this breed back in 1971. Yes, I also have guns, outside lights, etc., and a long driveway with padlocked heavy pipe gate, and being a woman alone I try to be cognizant of anyone or anything unusual in my semi-rural area. However, the outside dogs don't miss ANYTHING that moves (day or night) whether it's actually on "their" property, or adjacent to it, and the inside dogs make anyone who drives up to my door stay inside their vehicle until an "all clear" signal is given. Were I not a dog lover I'd certainly invest in a security system, driveway announcer, etc. Break-ins have happened in my area, but not to my place or to my neighbor on either side, and according to the grapevine it's because of my dogs' reputation. It's a shame such measures as these are now necessary in our society, but they are.

-- Linda M (LindaM@catahoulaleopard.com), March 03, 2001.

The bee idea gave me a grin. I think attitude has a lot to do with it. This is probably not the thread to mention my attitude is backed up by a few firearms, but I like to think I live in a free country and that includes the freedom from spending every day worrying about criminals. With some exception I think the majority of those willing to hurt others without provocation are cowards and tend to gravitate towards the defenseless,unfortunately.

-- jz (oz49us@yahoo.com), March 04, 2001.

On my daughter's front door is a sign to warn "visitors" about her German Shephard.

"In this house my friend does roam, He will take a life or give his own To defend this family and his home"

Better than a "Beware of Dog" sign

-- Cornelius Van Milligen (cavm@aol.com), March 05, 2001.

Hi again. On a related note about posting signs - I read somewhere that someone who posted a "Beware of Dog" sign had been successfully sued for "knowingly harboring a vicious animal". It was suggested that a much better sign would be "Guard Dog on Duty".

Sandy

-- Sandy in MN (jpevans_56353@yahoo.com), March 05, 2001.

Earlier in this thread, Laura mentioned how LIGHTS would be a detriment to security. I suppose a plan like total darkness may work for her, but I’m sure that lighting plans are different from case to case. Personally, I don’t want my children stumbling around in total blackness, trying to find the bathroom door, but ending up touching the searing hot stovepipe, instead! Hence, a glowing nightlight. If there is some new strange noise, 1800 watts of illumination OUTSIDE, with the flick of a switch, completes the ensemble. If an intruder is suddenly backlit from outside, he may immediately sense that he is no longer IN CONTROL, and someone inside can see now see silhouettes (targets) much better, and also knows where the trip hazards are better than he. Neither do I want to club my teenager, if it’s only HIM stumbling around in the night. As I mentioned, it’s a case by case sort of thing. This works for me. Laura, you mentioned neighbors with brightly lit trucks coming to help. That just doesn't work everywhere. (Especially, if there are no neighbors.) If the closest law enforcement is ten minutes away, and hasn’t YET paid for his donut or paper, sometimes the homeowner needs an equalizer. (RIGHT AWAY!) There may not BE time to awaken and gather your entire family, making sure the little ones have their hats and mittens, because “…we’re going out the back entrance Honey, to the barn for an hour or so, while the nice stranger robs the house…”. Just a thought.

-- Action Dude (theactiondude@yahoo.com), March 05, 2001.

P.S. I think those "cow-dogs" are a great idea.

-- Action Dude (theactiondude@yahoo.com), March 05, 2001.

I skimmed this section because of the length, maybe this has all ready ben mentioned: the best alarm is a flock of guinea fowl, nothing moves, not even a leaf in the wind, with out the alarm, and rest assured that they will wake you. Plus they eat ticks like a kid in the candy. They don't attack people (no lawsuits), their cheap to feed, diseases are rare or nonexistant. Their cries can be heard for very long distances. I believe with ample warning you can then handle whatever-however it suites you. You can open up with a .50 caliber machine gun or just give them your meanest look; the important thing is being aware of whats going on with time enough to react correctly.Ladies if you are alone and you hear a break in, the first thing out of your mouth should be "John, get the gun" as loud as your capable of screaming it; then make noise like a gorrila stumbling to the rescue; your thief will become a timid child if he thinks there is a 300 pound redneck (excuse me, I meant to say pink collar worker) opening a fresh can of hineywhoop; leave enough time and/or space for the thief to exit, add the verbilization: "John, I think he's over there", you will hear fast footsteps exiting, stage left. Your brain can become your best weapon, (as one taps the side of their skull and states: kidneys!)

-- mitch hearn (moopups1@aol.com), March 29, 2001.

We keep a rifle handy, but for animals, not people. I'm not crazy about my neighbors, but I've never felt I was in danger here. We have a big gate we lock when we leave. I armed myself only once, when well-meaning friends thought my camping alone was dangerous. I found that I felt less safe with the gun than without it. But each to his own. We all have different thresholds for feeling safe.

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), April 05, 2001.