Goat can't breath well

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I'm having a problem with my goat that no one can solve. I have called all the local goat breeders and even had the vet out and they are all clueless. I'll try to give as much detail as possible. I notice a few weeks ago that her respitory rate seemed to high. Discussed it with the locals and they said it was because of the kids pressing on her lungs and it would clear up after kidding. She is due March 25th. She was eating normally but is having trouble getting around. Everyone attributed this to her pregnancy, which is reasonable. I am sure of her breeding date because I don't own a buck and I also had her ultrasounded.

Today I went out to the barn and found her panting with her mouth hanging open and looking foamy. Her respitory rate was 30. She had no fever. I immediately started making calls. The vet came right out and could not figure it out. She was not bloated, but he gave her some med anyway. Her heart rate was greatly accelerated.Her lungs were clear. He said she is not all that large and the kids should not cause this. He was stumped. Has anyone out there seen anything like this. The vet said if she doesn't improve soon. I will need to consider inducing her or I could let her go and see what happens. What do you goat folks think???

-- Tiffani Cappello (cappello@alltel.net), February 23, 2001

Answers

Sorry to here about your goat. We raise Angora goats and love them very much. I have been looking thru my veterinary book and the only thing I have come up with so far is "Pulmonary edema". It is listed as an allergy, "a complication of hives in which the lungs fill with fluid, causing respiratory distress and hypersalivation." I will try talk to the people at my feed store tomorrow, one of them was big into goats. I will also keep looking thru my books. If, I find anything, I will write you. Please let me know how things go.

-- David in NH (grayfoxfarm@mcttelecom.com), February 23, 2001.

I have no idea about how this might translate, but my book of (human) medical conditions states that coughing accompanied by frothy sputum is almost always a sign of heart disease. Perhaps she has an undiagnosed heart problem that is exacerbated by the pregnancy.

It also mentions the obvious things like allergie and asthma (do they get asthma?)

It also says that strees can cause this sort of thig. Again, I have no idea whether or not this is the same from goats or not.

As far as the heart disease goes, suspect maybe either tachycardia (too fast) - brachycardia (to slow) causes shortness of breath, as well) - or maybe congestive heart problems.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), February 23, 2001.


I had another idea. This does not closely match the symptons, but all animals are different. The big thing is the fact that she is the the late stages of pregnancy. I'm wondering if she has KETOSIS also called Pregnancy Toxemia. It occurs in the last few weeks of pregnancy I did not think of this at first, because I would have expected your Vet to know it. But it's a try. If it is that she will need a Niacin Supplement. Also Vitamins A, D3, B complex, amino acids and glucose. I think this one is worth calling the Vet. Let me know.

-- David in NH (grayfoxfarm@mcttelecom.com), February 23, 2001.

Tiffani, how old is this doe? First off normal respiratory rate in an adult goat resting is 10 to 30 breaths per minute, kids 20 to 40. Here is something from Goat Medicine "In addition, many normal goats will pant; a respiratory rate of 270 per minute has been reported from goats held at 104 degrees F. A goat with a long winter coat, continually sniffing the examiner, will make just the counting of the respiratory rate frustrating or even meaningless."

The real problem here is the acidosis she is having with the foaming. You may want to check your hay and grain for mold, decrease the amount of molassas in your grain, and add a good culture to your grain, I use diamond V yeast, also put out baking soda to decrease the ph in her rumen. Probios also works well, but unless in the dispersable form is hard to use day after day. In a goat you do not really have to go counting breathing rates, it is when you can hear them breathing across the barn, or you see them having to exhale hard and long. Go out to the barn and kneel down, first your knees after 2 or 3 minutes should be dry, and you should never smell amonia.

Have you had any abscess in your herd or anywhere else on this doe? Honestly if this vet heard a problem with this goats heart, would he know it? My does not only pant this time of year when very heavy bred, but moan with each breath. Actually I worry more when they don't breath :) Oh that was bad! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), February 23, 2001.


UPDATE ON GOAT - I just got back from checking on Lila in the barn. Her mouth is not hanging open anymore and she is not frothing. I wonder if the frothing was from trying so hard to breath. Her respitory rate is still high and the breathing does seem labored. She has little energy. But seems interested in eating. I am wondering if I should give her some glucose and vitamins in a drench. I thought of the asthma too. I wondered about the heart when the vet said the rate was excellerated but he said that is normal with a high respiratory rate. He said she is having difficulty getting enough oxygen so the heart is pumping faster. This will be Lila's 3rd freshing and 4th pregnancy (She had a cloudburst pregancy last year). She has never had troubles like this before. She is 6 years old. I asked the vet is she could be carrying quads and that would be stressing her, but he said she did not look big enough to be carrying that many. The vets around here stink when it comes to goats, I hear. I called the realy good goat vet who is some distance from her but he is on vacation. I am wondering if she could have an infection and not be registering a fever. I NEVER get fevers no matter how sick I get.

-- Tiffani Cappello (cappello@alltel.net), February 23, 2001.


Vicky, I was hoping you'd respond to this one. Your post makes me wonder if I am overreacting (AGAIN!!!) I am sure the hay is not moldy. I will check the feed. I will check the stall as well but I am pretty sure there will not be alot of ammonia. The bedding seems very dry. I have Probios in the barn - the kind you add to water - I will add this too. I was doing this for awhile and stopped. Maybe this was a mistake. I just picked up another wall mounted free choice feeder to put baking soda in today. The vet seemed to think that Lila's condition was abnormal but maybe he is related to the doctor who diagnosed my girlfriends son with a genetic disease when he had a simple infection. I hope we get a good goat vet out here soon. Novices like me could sure use one!

-- Tiffani Cappello (cappello@alltel.net), February 23, 2001.

This sounds like it could be pregnancy toxemia or rumen acidosis. Both can result in increased respiratory rates.

You're right about your local vets. A good goat vet should be able to diagnose this with no trouble. Go to goat world emergency center. You will find contacts in your area that can help more. http://www.goatworld.com/911/

In the meantime, try giving her 45cc of Propylene Glycol twice daily for up to three days. You can get this at most feeds stores and it is administered orally. Also, give her 4 tablespoons of milk of magnesia with 1/2 teaspoon of ginger orally. This can be repeated several times. Next, give her 6 cc's Vit. B either orally or IM. As you said, give her some probios too.

Also, take her off grain and feed her only roughage such as hay, forage or limited alfalfa. Limit the fermentable carbohydrates like grain, fruit, bread, etc. Be sure she has fresh water easily available and free access to baking soda.

Let us know how she does.

Skip & Leslie, Sunday Creek Nubians, www.sundaycreek.com

-- Skip Walton (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), February 23, 2001.


Do you have rabies in your area?

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), February 23, 2001.

UPDATE ON GOAT. Well I think it was rumen acidosis. I now have my extra mineral feeder up with free choice baking soda. I also put Probios in the water. I noticed Lila taking particular interest in that baking soda! She is much much improved. Her respiratory rate still seems a little high, but nothing like it was. I can tell she is not longer uncomfortable. Thanks again folks!

-- Tiffani Cappello (cappello@alltel.net), February 25, 2001.

Soo glad to hear it.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), February 25, 2001.


Couple questions, possible help...

Have you switched the bedding recently - I've seen this in horses - but only when shavings were used. (Lots of dust)

Could it be heat stress? If the day time temps are in the forties and she's in late pregnancy, AND if she's still got a full winter coat on, it could simply be that she is too hot. Usually this doesn't result in a fever, but could make breathing difficult.

Frothing could just be from the exhaustion of the heavy breathing. If she has no external wounds, I wouldn't worry about that. It will come and go as her stress level rises and falls.

If she starts to spend a good portion of the day in the worst of the two conditions you mentioned, I would consider inducing.... But let her go as long as possible!!! If she's happy, inducing will be more for your benefit than hers.

Also - try not to be too upset around her. It might seem to some to be rather insignificant, but goats can imprint... The more you worry in her presence, the more stressed she will be!!

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), February 28, 2001.


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