While reading through the Gospel accounts of Jesus's trial before Pilate, it occurred to me that there were no "Christ followers" in attendance. The disciples were scrambling for cover or busy denying their association with Jesus. So who was recording the dialog between Pilate and Jesus? I came across a reference to letters that Pilate had written to his friend Lucius Annaeus Seneca. Pilate had described the trial and the questions he had posed to Jesus through Alexander. I had to surmise that Alexander was a Jewish scribe / interpreter, since Pilate did not indicate that he was posing the questions directly. That would also seem to indicate that the trial was conducted in Latin with interpretation into Aramaic(?) or Hebrew(?).

But since the apostles were not at the trial as eye witnesses, it then follows that Christian accounts come from pagan sources? Was it Pilate, himself? Alexander? Someone else?

(My reference to Pilate's letters is the work of W.P. Crozier at Trinty College, Oxford, England in 1928.)

Kindest Regards,

Craig Miller

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2001

Answers

Maybe the Holy Spirit was taking it all in....

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2001

Mr. Miller:

You have said the following:

“While reading through the Gospel accounts of Jesus's trial before Pilate, it occurred to me that there were no "Christ followers" in attendance. The disciples were scrambling for cover or busy denying their association with Jesus. So who was recording the dialog between Pilate and Jesus? I came across a reference to letters that Pilate had written to his friend Lucius Annaeus Seneca. Pilate had described the trial and the questions he had posed to Jesus through Alexander. I had to surmise that Alexander was a Jewish scribe / interpreter, since Pilate did not indicate that he was posing the questions directly. That would also seem to indicate that the trial was conducted in Latin with interpretation into Aramaic(?) or Hebrew(?). But since the apostles were not at the trial as eye witnesses, it then follows that Christian accounts come from pagan sources? Was it Pilate, himself? Alexander? Someone else?”

Let me suggest a simple thought to you my friend. You seem to have forgotten that Jesus Christ was there throughout the entire trial. And, though I doubt that he was taking any written “notes” of the events, there can be little doubt that he took NOTE of what occurred. Also, after his resurrection from the dead, we are told that he met with his disciples who had been scattered on that night for forty days. “The former treatise have I made O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach. Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Spirit had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: To whom he showed himself alive after his passion by many INFALLIBLE PROOFS, being seen of them forty days. And SPEAKING OF THE THINGS PERTAINING TO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.” (Acts 1:2-3). And that he talked with them for forty days which was ample time for him to have given a very detailed and accurate account of what had happened to Him on that occasion, should he have deemed it important for them to know and record that we should know. And who can doubt that this account may have “pertained to the kingdom of God”? Now, if you doubt the resurrection of Christ from the dead we are more than able to defend with many witnesses, both from the friends and foes of Christianity, that he did in fact raise from the dead. But if you believe in our resurrected Lord, then the central figure in this trial is still alive. And He appeared to the apostles and there is little doubt therefore that Christ himself, the central figure in this trial, was the “source” of the information that we have concerning account of that event.

Let me also suggest to you that Christ sent the Holy Spirit to inspire and guide into all the truth those who wrote these accounts. (John 14:26;16:13). And that Christ was filled with the Holy Spirit at his baptism (Matt. 3:16,17) therefore the Holy Spirit was present in Christ during the entire proceeding before Pilate and would know all of the details of this event. Inasmuch as he inspired those who wrote the accounts that you question and they were writing what he told them to write. Thus we thereby have nothing short of an actual eye witness account of these events in both Jesus Christ himself and the Holy Spirit who inspired the writers of the New Testament. And unless you are persuaded that the Jesus Christ was a Pagan and that God and the Holy Spirit were also pagans then it is without question that these accounts did not “come from pagan sources”! In fact, one would have to almost be a PAGAN to reach such a conclusion!

And let us not for one moment forget that God took note of this event and that He spoke through his Son (Heb. 1:1), who spoke through the Holy Spirit (John 14:23;16:13), who spoke through the apostles (Matt:19:27,28; Matt. 28:19,20;Matt. 16:17-19;John 20:22-23;2 Cor. 5:16-20;1John 4:6) and the inspired writers of this account. God was working with those who gave witness of these things and confirmed the truthfulness of them by signs wonders and divers miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His will. For we are told, “How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation; which at the first began to be spoken BY THE LORD, and was CONFIRMED UNTO US by THEM THAT HEARD HIM. GOD ALSO BEARING THEM WITNESS both with signs, wonders and divers miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His will.” (Heb. 2: 3,4; see also 1 Cor. 12:28,31;1 Cor.13: 8-10; Mark 16:15-20). Thus, we have the eye- witness of God, who saw it all. And the eyewitness of Christ who suffered it all, and the eyewitness of the Holy Spirit who was in Christ during the trial who inspired the apostles to tell it all. Now, unless you can prove that Christ never raised from the dead and that the Holy Spirit did not inspire the apostles. And unless you can show that God does not exist and could not have seen these things. Or that, though He saw them, he could not have revealed them. And that it is impossible for him through inspiration of the Holy Spirit in the apostles and inspired writers of the New Testament lead them into the complete truth about this event. And that this could not have been the source that allowed them to accurately record it, you have little reason to doubt the genuineness and integrity of the inspired record of this trial of our Lord before Pontius Pilate.

Even the apostle Paul refers the confession of Christ before Pontius Pilate as an important admonition to faithfulness to our confession of Christ before many witnesses. “Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed before many witnesses. I give the charge before God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who BEFORE PONTIUS PILATE witness a good confession; that thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in His times shall show, who is the blessed and only Pontentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: To whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.” (1 Timothy 6:12-16).

Now, if you deny these above matters there is good reason for us to conclude that our discussion is beginning at the wrong place. WE must discuss those questions first before we could settle the one that you have asked. And should we conclude that Christ did not rise from the dead. And that the Holy Spirit did not inspire the apostles. And that there is no God in heaven. Then we have no reason to even discuss your question for the record that you question would be of no consequence whatsoever except for those who enjoy squabbling over things that do not matter. For if Christ “be not risen” there is no hope for the world and the record of any other events related to Christ would all be meaningless even if true. And if He is risen then He is an credible eye -witness to the events concerning Him. And if he sent the Holy Spirit to tell the writers of the New Testament what to write we have thereby nothing short of an eye witness account of those events.

Now, if you are a Christian on the grounds that you have been persuaded with ample evidence that Christ rose from the dead. And that the Holy Spirit inspired the writers of the New Testament then enough of this unbelieving nonsense concerning the accounts written in the word of God that we are all persuaded came from Him. If you are not a Christian and need to be persuaded that Christ rose from the dead and that the Holy Spirit inspired the writers of these accounts then let us begin our discussion at the appropriate place which would be to discuss the evidence for the resurrection of Christ. Then we can decide whether your question is worthy of serious debate.

Your Christian friend,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2001

Craig,

It is very possible that the Apostle John was an eyewitness to the accounts you speak of. John 18:15-16 speaks of "another disciple" who entered into the court of Caiaphas - John usually spoke of himself in the 3rd person and appears to be speaking of himself here. It would not take much of a stretch of the imagination to figure that he followed Jesus not only before Caiaphas, but also as He was led to Pilate.

In fact, Jesus appearance before Pilate was a public affair, as the crowd clammered for the release of Barrabas, so any number of the Apostles might have witnessed that appearance before Pilate.

Often times, recorded data from Jewish, Roman, & other Gentile historians and authorities verify that accounts in the Scriptures are correct historically. But their verification only adds to the truth already made known by the Scriptures themselves, their existence is not necessary to prove Scripture - as the Word of God needs no such evidence to make it true.

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2001

Interesting question.

But as has been pointed out, Jesus was there. We know He taught His disciples after the resurrection. Also, Nicodemas might have filled in the disciples. If he were still alive, maybe he could have told Luke about what happened.

These things did not take place in a corner, of course.

I find it interesting that Matthew says that they found two false witnesses who said that Jesus said that He would destroy the temple. John quotes Jesus as saying about the temple (His body) would be destroyed and raised up in three days. Maybe the false witnesses took those words and twisted them against Him.

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2001

Thank you all for your answers. But Lee, I think Mark was closer to what was going through my mind when he stated "Often times, recorded data from Jewish, Roman, & other Gentile historians and authorities verify that accounts in the Scriptures are correct historically. But their verification only adds to the truth already made known by the Scriptures themselves,...".

I was simply exploring the historic possibilities, not denying their occurrance. The fact that there are other sources for the trial dialog DOES enhance the Scriptures, as Mark pointed out.

Thank you again,

Craig Miller

-- Anonymous, February 25, 2001

Mr. Miller:

You have said:

“Thank you all for your answers. But Lee, I think Mark was closer to what was going through my mind when he stated "Often times, recorded data from Jewish, Roman, & other Gentile historians and authorities verify that accounts in the Scriptures are correct historically. But their verification only adds to the truth already made known by the Scriptures themselves,...".

I understand what you mean but having read your original post it seemed at least possible from your words that there was an element of doubt about the source of those writings. For in your original post you said:

“But since the apostles were not at the trial as eye witnesses, it then follows that Christian accounts come from pagan sources? Was it Pilate, himself? Alexander? Someone else?”

With this statement you seem to be saying that since the apostles were not eye-witnesses of this trial that it “follows then” that the “Christian accounts come from pagan sources?” You did not seem to be asking if there were “Jewish. Roman, & other gentile historians and authorities” that might “verify” these accounts. You said that it “follows then that Christian accounts come from pagan sources” as if the only possible source of these accounts was from the testimony of pagans such as “Pilate himself? Alexander? Someone else?” Now if you intended to ask if there were any pagan or other sources outside of Christ and the Holy Spirit who inspired the apostles why did you not just say so? You did not ask for “verification” of these accounts from other sources you implied that since the apostles were not present at the trial that it naturally “follows then that Christian accounts come from pagan sources”. Therefore I was dealing with that false notion. For as I have clearly shown it does not necessarily “follow then” from the fact that the apostles were not attending the trial of Christ before Pilate that the “source of Christian accounts come from pagan sources.

However, I am please that you see the strength of the argument that Christ himself and the Holy Spirit and God the father were the actual “source” of these accounts. And that you are now seeking to leave us with the impression that you never did doubt it in the first place. It is indeed immaterial to me whether you doubted that there was anything other than pagan sources for these Christian accounts in your original statement. So long as you are now convinced that Christ our Lord and the Holy Spirit in the apostles provided nothing short of an actual eye-witness account of these things to the apostles.

I highly recommend that if you wish to ask a question such as this and not leave the impression that you doubt the source of any account in the Bible. That you ask plainly if there are any sources other than Christ and the Holy Spirit who inspired the apostles which verify any biblical account. For it is much better that you simply ask for verification instead of intimating the doubtful possibility that there were no such sources for those accounts other than pagan sources.

Then you said:

“The fact that there are other sources for the trial dialog DOES enhance the Scriptures, as Mark pointed out.”

Now Mark made it clear that such is not needed. For the word of God NEEDS NO ENHANCEMENT from any pagan sources. If one cannot believe the word of God without requiring such “enhancements” he will ultimately not believe in that inspired word of God should you provide a store house filled with such pagan “enhancements”. And just imagine what you would do if you came upon an account for which Jesus Christ and the inspired apostles were the only source and you could not find a single “enhancement” from pagans to persuade you to believe it? No. I do not accept the absurd notion that the testimony of Christ and the apostles is insufficient without some “enhancements” from a bunch of unbelieving pagans. And I warn all of you that seem to need such “enhancements” to beware. For you are heading down the road of unjustifiable doubt that will ultimately lead you far away from the truth as it is in Christ our Lord and the salvation that is found in Him alone.

Now, I do not doubt that Brother Mark may have been closer to what was “going through your mind” for I cannot know anything about what was in your mind when you penned your original question. But there is no doubt that I was very much accurately responding to what came out of your mouth, or from your keyboard and was posted into this forum.

The song you are singing now not only has a completely different tone and tune of your original melody but also it has a completely different text! I like the song you are now singing. It is a much better song and more in harmony with the notes found in the word of God. And I am thankful that Brother Mark was able to read your mind and settle the matter for you.

Your Christian friend,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, February 25, 2001