Ok, I think 17 years worth of warnings is enough, myself.

Feds Seize Baptist Temple That Owes $6 Million Tax Debt Tuesday, February 13, 2001

INDIANAPOLIS — Federal marshals seized the Indianapolis Baptist Temple on Tuesday to satisfy a $6 million tax debt, and wheeled its former pastor out on a gurney as he protested the move.

The U.S. Supreme Court had cleared the way for the seizure last month.

The Baptist Temple stopped withholding federal income and Social Security taxes from its employees' paychecks in 1984, saying the church's duty to obey God allowed no room for manmade laws and that withholding taxes would make it an agent of the government.

U.S. marshals rushed through a side door into the church, where six or seven people — some of whom had been holding a vigil there for nearly three months — were gathered in prayer.

"The purge has started," said the Rev. Greg J. Dixon, the church's pastor emeritus, as the marshals wheeled him out.

"We had a promise from the Bush administration. We had every reason to believe there was a moratorium. ... They were going to dismiss the case. We had a deal, and they welshed on the deal," Dixon said.

No one was arrested and there were no injuries, authorities said.

The current pastor, Dixon's son, the Rev. Greg A. Dixon, was not at the church when officers arrived but rushed to the scene and sat down in front of the building.

"The fight is still not over," the younger Dixon said. "We are going to continue this fight for religious liberty.

"They have trampled the First Amendment; they have desecrated a house of God," he said. "They have brought God's judgment down upon them, their souls, their wives, their children, their political careers. I feel sorry for them."

Federal marshals seized a parsonage a few miles from the church on Nov. 14.

The judge's order had authorized marshals to seize the property by force if necessary.

The federal government until now had never seized a church for failing to pay taxes, said Richard Hammar, an attorney for the Springfield, Mo.-based Assemblies of God church and an expert on churches and tax law.

"To have the IRS come in and seize the church's property, that is an extraordinary event unparalleled in American history," Hammar has said.

-- Anonymous, February 13, 2001

Answers

17 years is more than adequate.

I find it very sad when Christians forget that we are mere ambassadors to this country, not citizens. They start claiming rights that DO NOT belong to us as believers.

Jesus was asked about the temple tax, and his response was (paraphrased) "pay the tax. go find the money, even in the mouths of fish; God will provide it."

They make this even worse by claiming that God will bring judgement on these people and their wives and children!?!?!?

They have NO IDEA what they are talking about.

Just like y2k and the religious zealots, these Christians do nothing to bring the sweet fragrance of Christianity to the world; they just make us all look like freaks.

Very sad.

-- Anonymous, February 13, 2001

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=004Yns

Same story.

Couple of years ago, some of the y2k doom zombies were going to ride to the rescue of this Church. The story is SO OLLLLDDDD. It seems like everytime the Feds are "going to do something", another bunch of lawyers ride in to stall off under the First. At least they have enough sense not to shoot at anyone or even into the air on New Years Eves. It must have been one of the "causes" they tried to use for assorted Fringer efforts.......sort of like a Waco No Guns group. The Feds have been very patient about this whole thing.

-- Anonymous, February 13, 2001

Bible thumper, about that 'mouths of fishes' quote.

I've thought for some time that might have been the inspiration for Hans Christian Anderson's story of The Steadfast Tin Soldier, where the tin soldier is swallowed by a fish, and then is found, by a cook working for the toy's owners parents.

Sort of a combination of the story of Jonah and the 'mouths of fishes'.

What do you think? Many of Anderson's stories had biblical or religous backgrounds.

-- Anonymous, February 13, 2001

Paul,

That might make a good internet search sometime. Many of the classic English authors were influenced by the Bible, by Shakespeare and Chaucer, etc., etc. So you're more than likely correct in this case.

On the story of the Baptist Temple: I never quite know how to handle people like this. Like the ultra-Christian ultra-doomers in Y2K, I love 'em and am horribly embarassed by them at the same time.

This never should've happened. The story of Jesus and "render unto Caesar" pretty much covers it. They obviously didn't read that part.

By the way, I have been following this story for a while. The church claims that all taxes have been paid in full; they simply refused to do the withholding themselves on employees. But does that mean they didn't MATCH their employee's Social Security? If so, then maybe that's where the 6 million figure comes from ...

-- Anonymous, February 13, 2001

Another thing they evidently never read:

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God....Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour." -- Romans 13:1,7.

There is Biblical precedent for defying man's laws when they try to supercede God's laws: "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men." -- Acts 5:29.

But this thing doesn't seem to be one of those cases.

-- Anonymous, February 14, 2001

Mr. Davis,

I don't really know. You could be right. I have never researched it, and don't really care to. I dislike when true biblical acounts are turned into 'fables' and 'fairytales' by even the well-meaning. It lowers scripture and de-sensitizes another generation to God's truth.

I dunno, maybe I'm just to much of a hardliner on that one.

BTW, CL finished my thought (that I was to rushed to do myself)

In fact, I gotta run now.

-- Anonymous, February 14, 2001

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=004cYV

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2001