I have been mulling over the idea of trying to start an indoor farmers' market type of thing where the homesteader/farmer rents a booth/room area on a monthly basis (or pays a percentage of sales) and everyday or every other day drops off produce to be sold. The point of it is that they wouldn't have to stay there to sell their produce. I would run it with volunteers or paid help depending on how it was set up. Or there could even be an agreement that each farmer has to donate four hours a month to helping in the store. My thought behind this is finding a way for farmers to sell directly to the public without having to put in a lot of hours themselves to sell. They could then get retail prices in their own pockets instead of the middle men making all of the money. I would envision some booths as having refrigerators so that farmers could sell meat and cheese, etc. They could sell fresh produce in season and canned produce other times. They could sell honey, jams, etc., etc., etc. Each booth area would have the farmer's name on it and they would set them up however they want to display their wares. I got this idea because my parents have been involved in antique co-ops for years and it is roughly based on the same concept. Some of the hurdles to overcome would be to keep enough goods in the store on the off season to keep customers coming back, hence I would definitely like to sell meat, milk and cheese, etc. I know there would be licensing issues for some products and each farmer would have to be responsible for their own license and post it in their booth. I would emphasize the organic farms particularly as a draw for customers. And we could include booths of farm crafts as well which would help the off season sales. The other issue is keeping track of who's produce is being sold so that they get the money for it. With antique co-ops, all of the items have the booth number and price on them and the sales receipt is made up with that info on it. Then they take a copy of the sales receipt and post the sales to each renters account. At the end of the month, they receive their sales minus the next month's rent. I realize this would be a little different and was thinking that each booth could have bags with their names/booth number on them for putting the produce in. Then when it comes up to the cashier the produce can be weighed and priced and written on the sales receipt which booth it came from. Payment to the farmer could be maybe weekly instead of monthly to help them get their money back more quickly. Have any of you ever heard of this kind of direct sales market for farmers, other than the usual summer farmers' market? If so, I would love to hear how it was managed and what the rules were, etc. If you haven't heard of this but have some ideas, I would love to hear of them as well. The idea would be that I would keep the cost to the farmer low, just so that the building rent could be paid and electricity and advertising, etc. If there were enough farmers I think it could work. I know as a consumer I would love to have a place like this in my area where I could buy locally grown organic products.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), February 03, 2001

Answers

Colleen: What area of the country are you in? Sounds like a great idea, if you could work all the bugs out. Who would place the refrigerators in the spaces? What if there were a power failure and all the cold stuff was ruined? Would you have some type of disclaimer in the contract with each farmer? I've seen these as antique or craft markets, but to combine one with produce would be great. You would have to check all the licensing, insurance and other issues, in case some one claimed to get sick from one of the products, so you would not be held liable, etc. After you got all those things figured out and a place found to hold it, you could probably judge whether there would be enough interest from local growers by putting an advertisement in the paper/free publications, etc and tell them you are getting a list together. If you didn't get any response, you wouldn't be out the cost of setting up. Sounds neat! Let us know if you do it and how it works out! Jan

-- Jan in CO (Janice12@aol.com), February 03, 2001.

Jan, I am thinking too that it could probably be started under a grant from some kind of organization that does things for farmers. It would take a certain amount of capital to get off the ground but if there was a good business plan I bet I could get a grant. This is one of the reasons I'm trying to see if anyone has seen something similar so I could get some pointers on the pitfalls to avoid. Your comment about the insurance is certainly true. It would have to have some of the same protections a grocery store has. I am just forming it in my mind now so there are a lot of details to be thought about. My thought on the refrigerators was that I would provide them and rental on those booths would be a higher amount than the regular booths or their percentage of sales cost would be higher. I think the hardest part would be to have enough product through the winter months to keep people coming back. Keeping them in the habit of coming once a week would be very important to the success of the venture, particularly for the farmer. It would be good for them to have income in the winter. I could see limiting the renters so there are not too many with the same things. Variety would be key. For example only a few selling lamb and a few selling pork, etc. That way everyone is not competing with everyone else, only a few others. That would keep the variety greater and the interest to the customer. I could see it set up with atmosphere sort of like coming to an old time country store or some other farm type feeling which makes just visiting the place entertaining. I could see having a petting zoo of farm animals outside in the summer to help attract visitors. Kind of helping the kids of today understand where their food comes from. There could be other farm related things as well. Okay, my mind is just racing. Just bouncing thoughts out there. I'll wait to see what others can come up with.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), February 03, 2001.

Colleen, I know just about zilch on this subject. However, reading it over, it sounds like you would be starting your own grocery store, except YOU aren't buying the merchandise and reselling it. So then it sounds like a co-operative. There must be information out there on setting up a co-operative, but I can't help you with where to look. I just thought that if you looked at it as a co-operative, it might point you where you're trying to go. Man, I hope that makes sense! :-)

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), February 03, 2001.

When we were in Maryland the last time our daughter took us to the Dutch Market. It is kinda like what your thinking about, booths selling fresh chicken, eggs, meat, lamb, beef and pork. Also produce and baked goods and woodworking. The market was operated by Amish folks I think and everything was supposta be organic. My daughter bought a shofly pie and I bought some excellent breads. The breads were baked right on site (the aroma hit you when you walked in)and a person could not resist. The place was packed . . . nothing fancy, cement floors and those big glass front meat lockers where you pick out your cuts and they wrap it in white paper. Sorry I can't help with the particulars but it was a neat experience. One thing to remember, we were very close to Baltimore, people drive quite a ways because of the "organic" and Amish involvement. The place was open three days a week I think, Saturday we were there and no Sunday business. You would have to be very careful about health dept. rules I would think, at least around here. It was very warm outside that day, cool in the building (It looked like it had been a grocery store at the end of a little mall)and VERY clean. Another place had bulk food, like I get from the coop here (that's an idea, you could invite your local food coop to participate). There was a nursery outside with lots of decorative plants and bushes too. I keep remembering things. Of course in that area of Maryland lots of seafood, crab, shrimp, and fillet of fish. Hope that helps to keep the creative juices flowing. Sounds like a lot of work for one person, bookkeeping would be a nightmare unless you could figure out a way to computerize it. Good luck!

-- Betsy K (betsyk@pathwaynet.com), February 03, 2001.

It sounds like a neat idea but I'm thinking if you could balance the store with the right mix of say produce, flowers, herbs, crafts, and even a stall of two for antiques. That way, in the winter when produce production would be slow the others would help to pick up the slack. Perhaps even allow the produce people to sublet their space for the winter months when they're not producing, to crafters who are usually doing shows in the summer time.

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), February 03, 2001.

I guess this is my MBA kicking in, but I have difficulty in seeing how this concept could be successful. Main problems I see are supply and demand. How can you maintain a year-round supply with seasonal vegetables? Supermarkets do it by buying on the world market. The strawberries you bought last week probably came from Mexico or another Latin America country. Then how do you maintain year-round demand with seasonal produce? If craft items are included, you need a high level of out-of-towners as you can only sell so much craft goods within a given community. Then how do you keep out those who are going to want to slip in garage sale type stuff? Allowing the sale of fresh meat at farmers' markets varies greatly from state-to- state. Some are extremely strict, and others more lenient.

How would you entice people to start market gardening, rather than just being interested in selling the surplus from their home garden? How do you stop someone from buying produce at wholesale for resale? If you want to imply organic, how would it be enforced?

While you would have seasonal supply and demand, you have annual rent, utilities, insurance, building maintenance and other expenses.

Your post seemed to indicate you were interested in this on a break- even basis, which makes it essentially volunteer work. Yet, you would be the one putting yourself at risk for liability and expenses.

Someone above mentioned one done by a Amish community. The operative word is community. It is something which matches their lifestyle very, very nicely. (And, by the way, I have been told Amish and organic are not necessarily related.)

Just some observations:

The typical booth rental flea market lasts less than two years. There just isn't the volume of traffic to support it. Here in Waverly several have tried and failed. Same for an antique mall. Two opened, two closed (one twice). Simply was sufficient tourist traffic to support them. One flea market still open in town has sublet part of the building to a realty company and I see where they are now going to payday check cashing. If the operators didn't live in part of the building, I doubt it would have survived. Another survives because the operator owns the building and the third simply because I don't charge her rent and her utilities are very low. Small restaurants don't have much of a lifespan either.

Each summer two guys appear at the parking lot of Wally World and apparently sell vegetables they buy wholesale. Seems to be more of a something to do enterprise than anything else. One Old World family does come in on an irregular basis and sell their market garden produce. Ironically, they set up in the parking area of a failed produce/crafts market.

I know of two produce markets in town which have closed. Two other remain. One on Highway 13 (fairly good traffic flow) but I seldom see a customer when I go by and another on Main Street, set up in the yard of a private home. Both open in Spring and shut down after the pumpkin crop.

Consider ordered the book, Dynamic Farmers' Marketing: A Guide to Successfully Selling Your Farmers' Market Products by Jeff Ishee. It is self-published and available from him at Bittersweet Farmstead, P.O. Box 52, Middlebrook, VA 23359 (ish-bittersweet@juno.com or 540- 886-8477). He is basically a neighbor of Joel Salatin. His book includes a section on how to organize a new market, but it is the typical outdoor, one or two days a week, booth rental type. You might bounce your idea off of him.

I am not trying to pop your bubble, but just suggesting you really, really think this one through.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 04, 2001.

Colleen, there is a large year-round farmers' market in Allentown, PA., held inside the fairgrounds. They are open Thurs., Fri., and Sat. It's been several years since I've been there, but the place did a whopping business. The farmers each rented an area and worked it themselves, though. There were folks selling produce, candies and fudge, soaps, baked goods, meats, seafood, eggs, crafts, and prepared foods, herbs, bulk foods, etc. This place probably started small, and grew over time. I'm sure the produce is bought from a distributor in the winter months and resold. I love your idea. I have a book called "The Food Co-op Handbook", don't know if it would contain much info that you'd find helpful, but I'll mail it to you as a gift if you'd like it. I'd love to participate in a venture like this someday. Keep us posted along the way, and e-mail me if you want this book!

-- Cathy in NY (hrnofplnty@yahoo.com), February 04, 2001.

Something to consider. run a market during the season, shut down for a couple months rest, then in a different area before planting season, sell seedlings started by your market members. Never let your produce and plant customers know about the other market. This way you have city folks that dont want the hassle buying and you are helping city gardners get going too and getting some rest to boot.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), February 04, 2001.

For the winter months, you could shift the focus to "holiday" items, like seasonal cakes and cookies, hams, turkeys, gift and craft sales, maybe even gift wrapping booths and other seasonal services for those whose main focus is produce. This way, a constant flow on income could be produced. Perhaps the farmers could consider preserving (through drying, canning, etc) some of their unsold summer produce for sale in winter.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), February 04, 2001.

Colleen ho ray for you i hope you try it. myself i would rather try and fail as not to try at all. you cant do it if you dont try. heres wishing you the best. Bob se. ks.

-- Bobco (bobco@hit.net), February 04, 2001.

Hi Colleen- We in Virginia Beach have had a year-round Farmer's Market (6 days a week) for as long as I can remember- since 1978? It is on Dam Neck and Princess Anne Roads. There are actual storefronts, including local, a health food store, a Mennonite Dairy and flea market -type booths on the weekends.They are struggling a bit, but I think its because of poor accessfrom the main roads. it is sponsored by the city, who'd probably like the now highly valuable land for something else. However, when most of the place burned down 5 years ago, citizens rallied around the market, and convinced council to rebuild. There are at least 15 stores open year round there.One lady Michelle runs Virginia Garden, and would be able to refer you to the market manager, who could probably answer some of your questions, and hook you up with more resources. Call 757-427-0378. Good luck, and do drop in if you're ever in Virginia Beach!

-- Michelle M (mmaggior@mindspring.com), February 08, 2001.

Michelle:

As you noted places like this need a high volume of traffic to survive - not just driving by, but actually stopping in. I know of one in Milwaukee which is very successful. Wednesdays and Saturdays. Booth rental to basically the same people year-after- year. I believe they have a waiting list. It is on a main drag and, if you are familiar with Milwaukee, you just know there is a tavern next to it. The one in Nashville, sponsored (and subsidized) by the city, is only moderately successful.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 08, 2001.

Many of us have become relatively accustomed to eating seasonally. What if you just make a rule about only locally grown and made goods? If someone brings in tomatoes in January and you know they don't have a greenhouse, bump them. Maybe canned, dried and otherwise preserved goods in the fall and winter. I know there are health regulations about this type of thing, but I wonder whether volume has something to do with that. Our farmers markets have canned goods, eggs, butter, etc.

During the off season, sell winter-type crafts, such as homemade soap, homespun yarn, dried herbal and flower arrangements, quilts, etc. You get the idea.

Early spring, sell seedlings to anyone who wants them. If people are going to grow their lettuce, that's what they'll do regardless of where they get their starts. If they're going to buy it, selling starts won't discourage them. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't think secrecy would be much of an advantage.

The only caveat I can think of is to make sure you don't get too much of any one thing. Our summer farmers market used to be very cool, but now there are so many crafts and cut flowers, there's hardly any room for food! Go figure that out!

I'd go with a percentage cut instead as well as a booth rental. I guess that would make you a kind of middle man, but on a much more accessible level. And anyway, a vendor selling $1,200 worth of stuff is going to keep you a lot busier making change than one selling $200 worth, so they may as well give you something more for your efforts. And someone who has to foot the booth rental whether or not they sell anything is going to be more careful about what they put out for sale. Also, a brochure of some kind introducing your vendors and telling a bit about their farms might be a cool thing, since they won't be there to do it in person.

Anyway, it sounds like a cool idea. Good luck!

-- Laura Jensen (lrjensen@seedlaw.com), February 08, 2001.

Sounds like a great idea if you can keep all the local regulatory agencies out of it. You would probably be exercising more freedom that they think is safe.

-- Skip Walton (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), February 09, 2001.