"Aides to President Bush say that at an event Monday, he will announce creation of a White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives to coordinate religion-friendly policies at all government agencies. Later in the week, the president is expected to send Congress a plan for tax credits, tax deductions and grants to assist charitable organizations. An administration official said the price tag for the plan would be roughly $24 billion over 10 years."

Where should be the position of the AME Church on this issue? It seems to me that this is an opportunity for us to develop many ministries that directly affect our ministries and communities. Pastor Paris

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2001

Answers

Pastor Paris I too heard about President Bush's faith based economic plan today on the news. It sounds absolutely wonderful. Since economic development has been a major plank of the AME church. My hope is that the AME denomination will be at the forefront of this initiative. My suggestion would be that Bishop Deveaux contact the church liason at the white house and he and our other Bishops would me with President Bush. I also noticed that President Bush attended a predominatly black united methodist church in D.C. Apparently he is looking at churches in D.C to fellowship with. I hope our AME churches in D.C extend an invitation to him. I definitely feel that this is a unique opportunity for our denomination to help shape the faith based policies of the president, if he can get the money for the initiative.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2001

Pastor,

 

Will this effort be part of the President's education package that dares to reward schools that excel and hold those who do not accountable?  The media seems to fear the word 'voucher' and seems to direct its rhetoric against this strategy.  The A.M.E. Church and other denominations should aggresively support it, provided it doesn't cost the Body undue and unreasonable intrusion into its own biblical soverignty.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2001

Pastor,

(Please forgive my being anal, but I had to correct my misspells.)

Will this effort be part of the President's education package that dares to reward schools that excel and hold those who do not accountable?  The media seems to fear the word 'voucher' and seems to direct its rhetoric against this strategy.  The A.M.E. Church and other denominations should aggressively support it, provided it doesn't cost the Body undue and unreasonable intrusion into its own biblical sovereignty.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2001

As I understand it this is not associated with the schools. This is an attempt to get some of the onerous rules and regulations laid on faith-based institutions in order to get federal help. For example, currently the government requires that you not evangelize drug- abusers in a faith-based counseling program. As a Texan, let me caution that this is not a give-away program. These organizations must be doing a job. Pastor Paris

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2001

The AME Leadership should be supportive of the President's faith- based initiative. Any program which seeks to empower indigwenous church leaders with a greater role in ameliorating our internal problems is a step in the right direction. However, given the sad state of politics in this country I'm not too optimistic for genuine bi-partisan support. I hope I'm wrong but my political insitincts suggests differently. The black church leadership in this country is politically welded to the Democratic Party and Bush has been targeted as the political enenmy. Many of our "leaders" ergo, spin doctors, will opine thsat such faith-based programs are political spoils for the Christian Right with negligible benefits for the black church. Such myopic reasoning should be categorically rejected. The needs of our communities stand to benefit and this should be clearly articulated by our ecclesiastical leaders. While the Constitutionality of faith-based programs is a legitimate issue and should be throughly examined, I believe we would be derelict in our faith duty to not at least commend the President for making a bold start. QED

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2001

From what I gathered on CNN over the weekend, President Bush wants to make available to churches and charitable organizations federal funds and grants. Some of our churches are already doing this by working with Housing and Urban development. Up until now because of seperation of church and state federal monies were not available to churches. One of the concerns that was pointed out was the fear that the "Nation of Islam" would be able to get the funding, and there was fear that cults could also get the grants. The AME church has such a rich history and a good success rate for providing programs in the community. President Bush also wants churches to have the right to talk about God when working on economic programs. Whether we like the President or not, the bottom line, is that a large portion of tax money that is used by the government comes from taxes paid by black people. Why shouldn't that money come back to the churches. By the way I am democrat, but I am interested in this faith based initiative and it has nothing to do with vouchers which is a seperate matter. What do you think?

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2001

I just saw Rev. Dr. Flake from Allen AME church in NY, on the "Newshour" on PBS and he and two other ministers were discussing President Bushs faith based initiative. Dr. Flake discussed the faith based programs at his church and feels that we should support President Bush on this endeavor.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2001

Certainly we ought to embrace such programs. The spin-doctors are trying to defeat the program for other reasons. This program will remove some of the restrictions place on Faith-Based Organizations that accept federal funds. Unless those restrictions are removed, most organizations will not accept these funds. blessings Pastor Paris

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2001

I never thought I would see a conservative Republican start another government give away program. Sounds like political payback. There is a reason that faith base organization must go thru so much to receive government funds. Without so many checks and balances, David Duke and his buddies would be lining up for my hard earn taxes. The church does not need another crutch to lean on. Many government programs sound good but once they take charge what was good turns bad. The church has enough problems now with government interference.(IRS, taxes, zoning etc) Churches need to be what they are called Faith Based. I guess Mr. Bush wants them to be called Government Faith Based organization. I'm a yellow dog Democrat so I guess I need to keep a clear mind on this issue and see what the end will be. I wonder what Mr. Bush's Supreme Court judges will have to say about this issue. The AME Church position should be very cautious.

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2001

Donald,

 

Amazing that a Democrat would criticize a "Tax & Spend" program :-).  I think the merits of this program is good for the country as a whole.  It appears to be, as far as I've been able to ascertain, a good use of our tax dollars.  I applaud the President's efforts thus far to follow through on this and other promises w/o delay (a lesson learned from his father who moved much more deliberately).  Let's give him some latitude in attempting to bridge the gap to a degree in Washington, perhaps we will witness some of his "Compassionate Conservatism."  I believe we should be Christians who happen to be Democrat, Republican or whatever party, and not just align ourselves to any party.  Do we know what Democrats and Republicans stand for?  Have we seen their platforms?  Do we listen to and read Sen. Kennedy, Biden, Lott or Dashchle's comments on social issues, which may not necessarily be "Black" issues?  For example, they (Democrats) may court the Black vote, but they also support Partial Birth Abortion and legislation forcing acceptance, not just tolerance of homosexuality.  Personally, I could not ignore those things because they may support some things that would benefit people of my race...I am a Christian first!   I encourage you to indeed "Keep a clear mind on this issue and see what the end will be"...and by the way, Mr. Bush has no justices, unless you mean the ones he will get to appoint during his tenure.  Perhaps the ACLU will challenge its constitutionality and we'll get to see how the current bench will judge.

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2001

I read information that stated President Bush invited religious leaders to white house for consultation. Jewish, Muslim and Christians. No Eastern or Afrikan religious leaders were present. I don’t understand how “faith-based” initiatives for the NATION include only three perspectives. Which in my opinion is the beginning of the end. This demonstrates (again) his narrow scope of understanding and lack of tolerance.

Do religious organizations understand the price of government funding? It is tremendous. For example, there will no praying or saving souls. The government can not endorse any religious perspective. There will be no religious symbols displayed in the building. Which would you use? A cross? An ankh? A Star of David? The goal of the organization is to provide service to the community without forcing/endorsing religious views. Some people simple want service and not care about religion. If your organization receives government funds, it can not deny ANY person service. For the people who post on this board and work in a government...you KNOW the guidelines for receiving government funds. It is very strict!

The faith-based initiatives sound good on paper, but in reality, it is just noise. Something to keep the masses occupied. Republican and Democratic parties are not “white and black” issues. They are political, doing business as usual. I notice that the media (and whoever else) made Bush a supreme savior of US morals while the democrats are moral-less, creatures saturated with special interest groups and black folks. The country is bigger than the racial divide of this election. It has been a long time since I’ve seen this kind of tension. Embry, speaking of courting the vote..the republican party put on an all out minstrel show during it’s convention. It was sprinkled with Afrikan performers and did not FOOL me. Both parties play the same game. Court the vote till after the election.

For right now, I am keeping an open mind...I think for myself. I see the world through my Afrikan eyes. Truth means “that which is”. Not according to Bushes or the Republican Party or the Democratics… but according to G-d.

In Love and Light, Brenda

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2001

Sister Brenda, may I respectfully try to point out some inconsisties in your last post: 1. "No Eastern or Afrikan religious leaders were present." This app;ies to the U.S. and included the major religion in the U.S. (African-Americans, blacks were present). 2. "Do religious organizations understand the price of government funding?" The major thrust of President Bush's plan is the eliminate the very drawbacks you cite. He wants to make it possible for churches to use their religion in healing drug abusers for example. With his plan, you will be able to say to the drug abuser, "You can kick this habit through Christ, our healer and redeemer."

3. "The faith-based initiatives sound good on paper, but in reality, it is just noise." Religious leaders have in the past rejected Faith-Based Programs because the government is too much involved. Pres. Bush will allow us to demonstrate our faith in the healing process. Give the program a chance first, FAITH. 4. President Clinton, the leader of the democrats for the past 8 years demonstrated his moral short-comings to the entire nation. His siritual adviser, rev. Jesse Jackson was engaging in the same activity while trying to minister to Clinton. Republicians do not have a patent on morals but the conservative viewpoint is more moral.

5. I refer you to Lev. 19:9, 10 where God restricts his people from gathering the "corners" of their fields, to leave this for the poor. Government has a responsibility to include faith-based initiatives to help the disadvantaged. Lastly, our constitution does not say that church and satate cannot work together. Our constitution protects the church from the government; not the government from the church. Blessings Pastor Paris

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2001

Faith Based community development has been around for a number of years. What we must remember is that to do this with government grants you must create a seperate entity, Local Development Corporation, to do the programs you want to put in place. In Brooklyn, NY a number of churches have their development corporations that have programs ranging from computer labs, bookeeping programs, headstart, etc. that are govenrment funded. We must be mindful that the minute we preach Jesus that can be shut dowmn from government funds if 1 person finds it a violation of their constitutional rights. The enemy is always waiting to rear his head. In faith based ministry we can still do ministry because the focus of what Jesus did was meet the needs of the people spiritually, physically, and mentally through action. If you build it they will come, if you establish it they will follow, if you maintian it they will commit to it. God's people are cying out for help what can we do to meet their needs. As a community of faith to meet social needs we must not focus so much on building membership to a church, but on the church without walls. The AME church can play a large role in this on the connectional level by creating programs in the areas were many of the smaller churches have community needs and want to take initiative by establishing job training programs in low income areas, establishing more schools from pre-k on up.

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2001

Again, Minister, you cite the OLD rules. President wants to change those rules to make it more attractive for churches to minister to the needy. Pastor Paris

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2001

Pastor Paris, You seem to harp on the shortcomings of the democratics...nothing compares to the foolishiness of the republican party. Have you forgotten Iran situation or Pres. Nixon or the Jim Crow era? They, the republicans, are not examples of good moral character. They are MEN. Plain and simple. Some of us, enjoyed a good 8 years of Clinton. Let's see what President Bush brings to the table. Faith based...it is his agenda.

Peace.

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2001

Wow! My telephone cable gets cut for three days, and look at all I missed. Good convo all around. Count me as cautiously enthusiastic. The reason faith based programs are superior is they treat what's often the root and not just the symptom. The idealistic principle is, convert a drug user and they're delivered. Teach kids virginity until marriage and illegitimate pregnancy disappears. Run a marriage and family per the Bible and life is good. Solve the moral dilemmas through making disciples and most of what remains are economic and educational issues. These are much more treatable once people begin living per the Bible. They'll be better students and employees.

Can the govt rules allow the ministries to operate in an unrestricted manner? If so, let's do it. But lay on a bunch of rules and I wouldn't participate. I've heard in those areas vouchers have been approved some private schools still won't participate. They remember the Citadel and VMI. Regardless of whether you agreed with their stance on females, they were forced to yield because of their dependence on govt funds. Churches should take a lesson.

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2001

Brother Price, you've got it. President Bush's plan is to get the rules changed so that we will participate. We still have a choice and it is not a giveaway as some seem to think. Blessings Pastor Paris

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2001

The US government has already given churches much more than they can contend with new tax regulations. Perhaps most of you have forgotten that our churches are not in compliance with IRS regulations and donot file the necessary tax forms annually. When churches begin accepting more grants, the IRS will get deeper into our fiscal affairs. Many churches will probably lose their tax exepmt status for non-compliance.

Ask yourself if you really want the US government dictating your fiscal affairs. I think not.

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2001

Some of us just don't get it. President Bush wants to get rid of the most onerous regulations that are now preventinf churches from engaging in Faith-Based Ministries. This is not a handout. It is a program to HELP the drug abusers and other folk who need help. It is NOT to help the church. It WILL cost the church more to participate. It is to do what the government has admitted it cannot do. Blessings Pastor Paris

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2001

Religion will not play a part in the services provided to individuals. It(the church) will be a conduit at best. For those who think that this is an opportunity to evangelize the unsaved---wrong. It is an opportunity to serve the unserved; not to set up the revival tents. Brother junkie wants to stop using drugs, the church can not make any demands on him proir to providing services. If the government discovers the money is being used for other activities (like spreading the gospel), then the church is federal trouble. Have any of you gone through a federal audit? I appreciate his effort and see his logic. Let the non-profits non-religious organizations do their jobs. Give them more grants.

Also, will there be a duplication of services by churches and other non profits?

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2001

Teen Challenge, my favorite drug treatment program accomplishes their goal through evangelism. Part of that is retaining the right to evaluate each student and turn away those not serious about change. Could President Bush succeed in allowing them to retain that right?

-- Anonymous, February 03, 2001

Pastor Price: Under the Bush plan that is entirely possible. It is not a reach to see that Jewish drug users would be ministered to by Jews, not by complusion but by choice. I plan to hire college students to develop and administer a Summer Reading Program using grant funds. Now, since most of my children are black and hispanic, who do you suppose I am going to hire? Since this program will be administered in an AME Church, what faith do you think the teachers will be? AME of course. This will make those funds multiply since the recipients will also be a part of the community and church. Part of President Bush's plan is to relax the rules so that this very thing is possible. I note that many on this forum object to this program because of the federal rules governing such programs. We have the opportunity for such programs now, but I won't do them because the rules are prohibitive. Look at your Pastor's Report Sheet, Book of Discipline, page 265, question 26: "What is the number of community projects within the church receiving funds from outside the church? (Child care, Senior citizens homes, etc.)" I suggest that had Clinton been the author of this program, we would be singing his praises to high heaven. Blessings Pastor Paris

-- Anonymous, February 03, 2001