One of my does is just too skinny and it has been bothering me for some time. I have dewormed her but she has not put on any weight. It seems to me she may have lost just a little - but I am not sure. I considered Johnes Disease, but she was born on my farmette, and has only left the property two times to be bred and has never had contact with cows. It is that way with all my goats. They are all from my big doe Lila - who is definately NOT thin or sick - in fact, she is a little too chunky. All this is to say that, in my limited knowledge, I deduced that Johnes was unlikely. The local vet says he's only seen a couple cases in goats around here - although the disease is quite prevalent in cows.

Could my deworming have been unaffective? The vet said she had threadworms (based upon my stool sample) and gave me the most effective wormer for this parasite. I used it as prescibed, but I am wondering if I am missing something.

My other goat's tend to pick on her a little. And won't let her eat until they have had their share (the little meanies). She is defidently at the bottom of the pecking order. But I put alot of hay in there so she can always get her share.

Is there something I am not considering that I should be? Is Johnes a risk for me even though my goat has had limited exposure off my little homestead?

Thanks folks! I'd go bonkers without all the wonderful advice you folks give in this forum.

-- Tiffani Cappello (cappello@alltel.net), January 13, 2001

Answers

If you even suspect Johne's Disease, that animal should be isolated well away from the rest of your goats as it is infectious. Your vet can run a test for Johne's, but it is not 100% reliable. (From The Stockman's Handbook by Ensminger.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 13, 2001.

Tiffani, there is a lot information needed to really make an appraisal here. How big is your herd? Do you actually have enough feeder space?? Is she in milk, big milk producers sure need a lot better feed. I try to take all things into consideration when looking at the makeup of my herd. How long has it been since you wormed? Have you run another fecal since you wormed to be sure it was affective? See what I mean-lots to consider. I would not go the Johnes test route until I had considered all the obvious management problems that you can have in a herd. imho

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 13, 2001.

Tiffani, I know that the goat people have not had a chance to answer this question. Maybe you smply need to feed her separately for awhile and use a different wormer. There are more causes for wasting than John's disease. Perhaps she is just a thin goat, I have had a few from big mamas that just never grew out like their siblings or parents. It could be genetics, there might be a thin, slab sided goat back in the bloodline. Internal abcesses can cause wasting too. There are a lot of things but it really sounds like the rest of the goats are not letting her eat enough. Try feeding her by herslf for a couple of months. Good luck.

-- karen (kansasgoats@iwon.com), January 13, 2001.

Johnes is not nearly as widespread in goats as it is in BOOKS.Since this goat is on the bottom of the pecking order,isolate her for feeding.Be sure she gets plenty,maybe double the usual ration,of 16% GOAT feed.Watch the poop.if it goes from berries to "dog poop" back off just a bit.If she were mine,I would feed her twice a day,by herself until she gains to normal weight.Roughage 24-7 goes without saying. Some folks feed grain-not enough calcium or protein.Some folks feed horse sweet feed-wrong mineral balance for goats and not enough protien.Funny thing is,I can buy goat feed for the same price as good quality horse feed. Alfalfa hay would help if you can get it for a reasonable price.That's not a choice here.

-- JT (gone2seed@hotmail.com), January 13, 2001.

Tiffani, have you had her (and the whole herd) tested for CAE? I had a doe that ate well, but always looked thin. I had the same kind of uneasy feeling about her that you are describing. When I tested them, she was the only positive, I'd bought her from a place where they bottle fed all kids, but did NOT quarantine the positives. If she is negative, you could also try distributing the hay in several feeders or spots. If you have 7 goats, put small amounts of hay in 8 places, and you could give her a little grain by herself to help put some weight on her. I'd get her tested first though- no sense in putting lots of feed into a doe who is going to waste away no matter what you do.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 13, 2001.

Tiffani, lots of great questions for you to answer, from the other folks. What are you worming with, and what are you feeding? What loose minerals do you have out? Molassas is very hard on the girls rumens, and most goat feed is just glorified hog pellets. Most does, unless they are growing or milking for top 10, don't need near the protein most folks feed. We certainly don't gain weight on high protein food, when you think about getting fat you think, carbohydrates, potatoes, pastry, bread, not eggs, milk, cheese, meat and soy products like tofu ICK! So when you think about adding weight to an animal think of grain, oats, corn and barley, fats like Black Oil Sunflower Seeds. The CAE tests idea is right on, and we have never had a doe test positive for Johnes in 15 years, even on broker does, not that I don't for a minute think that Johnes isn't around, but the blood tests for Johnes simply doesn't work, if it did the cattle industry would use it and not the much more expensive fecal test.

Make all changes that folks give you ideas for very slowly. And (I say this alot) unless your vet has continued their education and have some goat information, you are probably giving sheep wormer at sheep dosages, and that is like giving water! Is their any goat folks in your area that you can pattern your feed after?

Please get back to all of us! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 13, 2001.

Hi Tiffani,

I have had good luck putting weight on my milking does by adding some beet pulp to their feed. I just put the dry pellets in with their regular grain at milking time. They seem to like them.

-- Laura Jensen (lrjensen@nwlink.com), January 15, 2001.

Please, be very careful with the beet pulp! To see why, try pouring a quart or two of hot water into 1/2 cup of beet pellets. Thanks to Vicki, I'm using the beet pellets to put weight on one of my does, but I always soak it in as much hot water as it will absorb. It really is amazing how much those pellets expand!

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 15, 2001.

If you want to have her tested I see no reason not to if the cost is in your reach. We had one tested and it was reasonable. He was negative and it was such a relief to know. On the other hand I agree with others that the problem is likely to be that the others are just bullying her and she needs to be fed alone for awhile. Retesting for parasites and checking for bad feet also come to mind. Check her teeth Can she eat ok? Has she had haemonchus? Is there a chance her rumen is messed up and she needs a little probios? Hope this helps

-- Norman and Susie Stretton (nightsong@beci.net), January 16, 2001.

Tiffani; have you thought about cocci?? is she shedding a abnormal amount in her fecces?? Bovatec in the salt works well but you can't drink the milk it's safe for babies though. I mix mine with kelp and soda, you will need to ge the kind that is made for cattle, contains some soybean meal and needs to be diluted by half , thats what the kelp and soda are for 1/2 part bovatec salt to 1 part kelp and 1/2 part soda good luck

-- Diane from Idaho (oleoranch3@aol.com), January 19, 2001.