I have a yearling doe that is sick. 10 days ago she got into some grain, but did not bloat, though she had ploppy manure for 2 days. 7 days later, I came home to find her lethargic with dull eyes. She got up to drink as I was filling water barrels but seemed unable to suck water up. She ended up reaching up to the hose and drinking or scooping water up with her lower jaw. Her jaw was wet before she began drinking as if she had been drooling. When she put her head down to try to drink she coughed up greenish "gunk." I assumed she had lost her cud and gave her some unflavored yogurt and then bedded her down for the night. The next morning, she looked somewhat better but had a temp of 103. After giving her 7 cc of penicillin, the fever dropped to 102 by that evening. At this point, she looked really good and was moving around though not playing with everyone else. I kept her on the 7 cc of pen for 2 more days as a precaution because her temp stayed at 102, though she looked completely normal and was running and playing and eating and drinking well. I stopped the pen and 2 days later her temp is back to 103. Other than that she is fine, no symptoms of anything. I have started her back on the pen, but am wondering if anyone has any experiences similar to this. I really don't think the grain incident had anything to do with it but maybe it's just a very delayed reaction. Please post any info/experience you may have. Thanks, Monica and Baby.

-- Monica (zpepenovia@excite.com), January 08, 2001

Answers

Monica,

103 isn't too high for a goat. My book says 102 plus or minus 1 degree. Maybe she she just runs on the high side. If she's up and around eating,drinking, pooping and playing I wouldn't worry too much. Sounds like she got over it ok. Just keep an eye on her.

Hope she continues to do well.

Best Wishes, Pauline in NC

-- Pauline (tworoosters_farm@altavista.com), January 08, 2001.

The grain overload could have easily caused this problem. The rumen can get impacted with grain, and it can cause enterotoxemia. Goats actually carry this toxin with them all the time, but it takes problems like this for the toxin to multiply. The Penicillin is exactly what killed the toxin in her system. I would finish the 7 to 10 days of Penicillin, 300,000 unit pen is given at 3cc per 50 pounds and you can give it under the skin. Remember when you go to the doctor and he warns you to finish all of your antibiotic? Same goes for your stock, does little good to just give the meds until they appear better, you should give it for the whole course.

I would also work on getting her rumen back into shape with lots of nice grass hay, and a probiotic product like probios, yogurt will work if you can get her to consume enough of it, and it must contain live cultures. I like to keep Probios, Baking Soda and Diamond V Livestock Yeast, on hand for rumen upset. When a doe eats to much grain, and especially if the grain has heavy molassas in it, it causes her to build up to much acidity in her rumen which kills the bacteria. The yeast and soda keep the rumen acids neutralized and probiotics add benefical bacteria back into the rumen. We keep minerals, Diamond V Yeast, and baking soda out to our milkers free choice. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 08, 2001.

Always check the label.Penicillin is labeled intramuscular use only. That means it goes in the muscle, not under the skin. 5 days on this injectable is usually considered a full course. I agree that if the goat is bouncing, a few days on the drug was probably enough.

-- mary garcia, TX (marylgarcia@aol.com), January 08, 2001.

Mary it would make sense to use drugs as per the label instructions wouldn't it!?? But in our goats nothing works as it should. There are no drugs tested on goats so nearly everything we do is considered extra label. Our goats have very quick metabolisims, much faster than sheep. If you have a severly ill goat, than yes your first shots can go IM, so that it gets quickly into the system. But most antibiotics that we use, Tylan, LA200 and Penicillin work much better, and are eaiser on the tissue of the goat if you give it subq. We use injectable and pouron wormers orally, and at dosages that make cattlemen squirm! About the only things I give IM to my goats are Naxcel, Lutalyse, Dexamethazone...that's all I can even think of off the top of my head. OH! Yes we do vaccinate with CD&T IM since we have dairy goats, and show, we don't want the granuloma that is formed to show as an abscess! Giving antibiotics at to low of a dose, or for not a long enough period of time, is what gives us resistance. The next time you pull the drug for a problem it won't work! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 08, 2001.

O.K. I agree with everything I've been hearing, but still have a couple of questions. If this was caused by too much grain, wouldn't it have shown up sooner ? A full week went by before she got sick !

RE:worming. I have been worming both my goats and my sheep with Panacure, dosed down according to their weight. Because they are fairly tame and the Panacur is apple flavored, it's much easier and much less messy than dealing with pour ons. In your experience, does it work just as well ?

RE:fever. I think maybe she does run high because she's still at 103 this morning and yet she looks and acts absoloutly fine. It rained all day yesterday and last night and everyone was out playing in the rain. They had shelter and usually use it but no one wanted to. If she was still sick her fever should have sky rocketed after being out in the wet and cold all night! (yeah, yeah, I know, we're in CA and it doesn't really get cold here !! Tee Hee Hee)

Thanks everyone for all your help. It is comforting to have all the input. I don't know about you guys, but when one of my animals is sick I'm always second guessing myself. M.

-- Monica (zpepenovia@excite.com), January 09, 2001.

RE:worming. I have been worming both my goats and my sheep with Panacure, dosed down according to their weight. ..................................................

If it is the apple flavored kind than I assume it is the Horse one. And you don't dose anything "down" for a goat. If your goat weighs 100 pounds, than depending upon how much resistance you have to Safeguard/Panacur you would at the very least double the dosage, and in our case to even touch hemoncous worms you would have to 5 times the dosage. So a 100 pound goat would need 200 pounds to 500 pounds of horse wormer. The very best thing to do is to take the goats poop to the vet and have them tell you what worms you are working with, you may not get good advice on worming unless the vet has continued their education in goats, but at least they can tell you what worms you have. All wormers, Ivermectin, Valbazen, Safeguard, Top Line, Panacur etc....are all given orally and except for Cydectin are usually all at least given at double the dose. Remember these dosages are for cattle and horses, not goats, so you have to get your dosages from folks who have tested these products, with fecal samples, or information from Universities who do animal studies. Your goats have much quicker metabolisims than your sheep do. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 09, 2001.

Well, here we go. There are no goat or "stock" vets in my area so I have been relying on my horse vet. She seemed to think that the other oral wormers may be to harsh for goats. Evidently, from your post, they're not. What about the time lapse between getting into the grain and getting sick ? Any thoughts? Thanks, M.

-- Monica Flood (zpepenovia@excite.com), January 09, 2001.