My husband and I are preparing to take the plunge, sell some of our land,and figure we can become debt free in 18 mos.I love to read the stories in my old countryside(s) that tell how people did it.After you're out of debt is it hard to stay out?Would you share your journey to being debt free?

-- teri murphy (mrs_smurf2000@yahoo.ca), January 06, 2001

Answers

Debt is like a drug addiction. Easy to fall into, extremely hard to stay out of in this commercial based society. Get rid of your TV and it's incessant ads to buy things, establish a budget and stick to it - no exceptions - do without if necessary. I learned from my parents - who died in debt - and my grandparents - never had a single debt - what debt can do to you and your family. I have had only two loans in my life: a car early on in my marriage and a house that was paid off in 12 years. If I couldn't pay cash after the car, I did not purchase. Period!! Now I can buy whatever I want, but don't as most items are of a transitory nature. A simple life without a lot of object is better.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), January 06, 2001.

I have experienced debt free and put myself back into debt, hated it and struggled to get our again and hope to stay that way. At the risk of turning this into another one of those "religious war" threads, I will share our beliefs here in regard to debt. We have found debt to be a tool of the evil one who would have us in bondage. We have no liberty when we are in debt, no freedom of movement to speak off or the ability to answer God's call to serve. Debt puts our focus on money rather than the Creator. Debt calls to us all the time and we try very hard to ignore it. Get a better truck, finance a barn, etc. etc. etc. Just recently we have found that if we resist, even when we can see no other way, something comes along. Call it a "faith walk" or whatever. We both worked as many hours as we could and put every dime that was not needed to survive onto our land payment until it was paid for, as with our home. When something breaks, we do without until we have the money to fix it.(that's a really hard one!!) I am concerned about so many very spiritual people that are struggling so hard with this. We feel very blessed that we can live like this, always knowing that as with anything, it could change really fast. Oh, and if you have any kind of credit card, cut it up today!!! I always kept one around for "emergency" reasons and guess what, "emergency" always happened. We cut ours up 8 years ago and we are still here to tell about it and I have gotten through my "emergency" many times.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 06, 2001.

I have business debt still, but my homestead is paid for and that is an excellent feeling. How it happened is really very simple. First God provided, second, I took advantage of His provisions. I worked non stop for two years after moving out of LA and lived in the shop under the flourescent lights which drove me nuts, but it was a sacrifice. I worked an average of 15 hours a day every day for two full years and then cut back to about 12 hours six days a week. Working a lot can do two things, first it can exhaust you and cause you to burn out, second, it keeps you from going out and spending the money you are 'making'.

I think that perhaps the word 'sacrifice' isn't something that is understood by most of our society anymore. There were three of us that started out on this venture and the goals varied, but were similar in that we all wanted to get out of debt and buy land. I was the only one who wanted to homestead. The other two people are in less teneable positions than myself now with the same exact conditions. My business partner STILL lives in the shop and is paying on land (she does have an awesome toy collection!) and our friend decided to move into town and drink a lot and she is now renting an apartment and sold the land she had begun to purchase to pay off credit card debts acquired from partying. Every single day you make a choice as to what direction you will be heading.

Diane, thanks to your advice I will be ripping up my credit card today. It is the only personal debt I have and you are completely right!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), January 06, 2001.

Work Hard. If you work at things you love to do,work doesn't feel like a four letter word.Well, maybe somedays it does,but that will pass.

Live lightly on this earth,respecting it's bounty.

There are two ways to have "wealth".Make lots of money to buy lots of things, or have fewer needs.Learn to differentiate btwn your wants & your needs.You get to choose.

Have Faith. And some luck thrown in, for good measure.So eat your saurkraut or blackeye peas every Jan. 1st. You don't even want to here about what happens when you don't!

Debt free for 10 years.Once you are, it's like pulling teeth to get back in,for me anyway.

Enjoy the journey!Live your dream.This ain't no dress rehersal.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), January 06, 2001.

No credit card, EVER. Debt free for almost 25 years. It's awesome and I highly recommend it to everyone. It CAN be done. There is absolutely nothing out there that is even tempting to go into debt for. Nothing. Live simply so that others may simply live.

-- Sandy Davis (smd2@netzero.net), January 06, 2001.

Can almost taste it so close but yet not quit there. The credit cards gone{the biggest mistake yet}. Our biggest problem was buying this house,haveing our first,starting a company and needing buisness tools all in the same month.We should have planned better but.... The company truck has 4 payments left, the house has way to many,but as one is paid off all that money goes to the next closes to pay off so we never keep the "extra cash". I hope to have the house paid off in 10 yrs. maybe sooner if all goes well,we are still playing w/ the idea of moveing but HS still cant get comfortable with the idea.{i keep working on him though}

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), January 06, 2001.

This is our 2nd time to be debt free, 1st time in 1986 when the oilfield went bust, we we're kinda forced into it, and couldn't afford to accumulate any more, then dh got a real good job 5 yrs later, so we bought a house and a new van! Got an oppurtunity to transfer to w. tex where they have company housing (oil feild camps) you only pay $30.00 per month and your electric, gas, and water is free, we moved out there for 3 years, rented our house out, made improvements on the house, made double and triple payments on the mortage, also saved any overtime money he was paid, bonuses etc. We moved back to E. Tex and it took us one more year to pay off the house and van (which we did with hail damage money on the van) of course one of our incentives was he was going to be laid off once again when the plant sold, we paid off the house 6 months prior to him being laid off. In addition to all this I have to say we've been blessed by God in so many ways, we've recieved oil/gas lease money from my dh's family land, and they sold 22 acres to another sis who was landlocked which he used to buy a new tractor with. All in all we are just pretty frugal people, most people our age are upscaleing and building new/better homes, driving the SUV's and such, but I'll just stick with my 1800 sq ft frame house and older van, dh wants to buy us a more dependable little car, and we may have the money to pay cash for one after he works a paticular job for 3 months where he plans on getting lots of overtime. If we had to finance it, I'd rather go without. Debt free once again and loving it, hope to never go back. Oh we have 1 credit card also for convenience or emergencies, and I'm really thinking hard on what Diane sd, but we don't have many emergencies anyway so we'll see.

-- Carol in Tx (cwaldrop@peoplescom.net), January 06, 2001.

We are just about there. We have a small amount of mortgage debt left, but this has been the culmination of a 20-year plan. We actually have some additional assets, which should hold us through our retirement years, if we are prudent.

The best thing to do is to make a plan. Write down what your goals are, and be as specific as possible. Then tie the goals to a timeframe. I guess my husband and I are a little anal, but we made our plan for 20 years, and subdivided it into 5-year goal periods. Each 5-year goal was a milestone contributing to our overall goal. As an example, the first 5 years was (as I recall) to be consumer debt free, to make $xx,000 a year, to find property and move onto it, to learn to raise chickens, etc. The second 5-year plan was to rent the first property and buy a second so we could have an income, learn how to build outbuildings, etc. (I should get our old paperwork out! We are operating on auto-pilot at this point!) We both worked full-time at whatever jobs we could get the most $$ for without totally selling our souls, in support of these goals. Because we were commuting and working at stressful jobs, in retrospect, having made 5-year goals gave us a lot of flexibility, which we really needed (having to be adaptable at our paid jobs!!) We are at about year 17 and we are close to having what we want: our homestead debt-free, plus a cushion of sorts so we can also travel a bit (a passion), plus money for good will (church, charities.)

The same plan would work on an 18-month basis. Just make your milestones monthly! We had business meetings (yes, the two of us) at the kitchen table every couple of weeks, or even every couple of days when we were just getting started, to work on our plans. It was fun! We felt at the time, that carrying a certain portion of debt was "acceptable" to us, in that long-term, it would be more of an investment. We have a pretty low threshold for debt, however, and when we have leveraged something and the time has stretched out longer than we wanted, we have had many sleepless nights and arguements!. We've learned a lot by trial and error. I am thankful that we have worked on a strong marriage too. I hope we can maintain our health, as that's always the wildcard.

We used credit cards for some things, but because we also had a monthly budget, we knew that we could only spend so much and then we would pay it all of at the end of the month. This discipline allowed us to keep pretty good records too.

I think reading "Living the Good Life" by Helen and Scott Nearing was the best incentive for us to develop long-term goals and the desire to only work 4-hour days for "bread money." (We didn't do the 4-hour thing, but the concept reminded us that we don't have to work forever for other people to make our lives work.) We adapted our goals in ways that suited us, but we still appreciate the concept.

Good luck to you and to all of you for wanting to, or getting out of debt. You can do it and have fun at it, too!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), January 06, 2001.

About 10 years ago my husband and I both had good jobs. I was in retail with my parents and decided to "retire" when my Mom did and stay home and raise our two girls (best decision I ever made!). At that point, God really put it on our hearts that we needed to pay off the mortgage on our house. We had paid down half when we bought it so the payments were low. Even with me not working, we began to apy an extra $500 a month on principal. It took us 3 years and we put no money in savings during that time, and all extra money and bonuses, etc. went to paying off this debt, but we did it. Then we found out why we had to do that: my husband was laid off from his job after 18 years with NO notice and NO severance, etc.. Just "Good-by and thank you".. The company had been bought out and they systematically got rid of everyone with a decent salary and replaced them with low- salaried people. His current job pays much less but he has a business on the side so we get by. We pay cash and buy used cars so we have remained debt-free. We only use credit cards for shopping out of town, travel, etc. and only when we know we can pay them off when we get the bill. I still continue to stay home. Our oldest will head off to college next year. We have some saving for this and she will get some scholarships, but I am sure there will be loans, too, because she wants to go to a Christian college and it is more expensive than a state school. I plan to stay home until the youngest graduates (another 4 years) then if my health permits it I will go back to work to pay off college debts for both of them. I have just started tutoring part-time at our local junior college because I can set my own hours and the pay it decent and I enjoy it. I could teach part-time there perhaps. Our life is much simpler and we love it. Whether or not this will be passed down to our children remains to be seen. They are at the age where they want to work, make alot of $ and buy things. But I do see hopeful signs -- they do much better when spending their money as opposed to "my" money. We love being debt-free. Our dilemma recently has been whether to sell our "paid-for " house and get something smaller, even perhaps move to the country. Hard decision.

-- connie in NM (karrelandconnie@juno.com), January 06, 2001.

Buy only what we can pay for in cash (lots of flea market and yard sale purchases). Make all we can (use that creativity gene) and never mortgage yourself more than what rent would cost you (restricts your plans some, but you can usually afford what you have). Last step, always strive to reduce your yearly expenses by 5 to 10 percent.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 06, 2001.

I highly recommend reading "Your Money or Your Life" by Vicki Robin and the late Joe Dominquez ,"The Tightwad Gazettes" by Amy Dacycyzen, and "Choosing Simplicity" by Linda Breen Pierce.

-- Sandy Davis (smd2@netzero.net), January 07, 2001.

Have been generally debt-free for most of my life, but as much as I hate it we have put ourselves in debt a few thousand just to get a credit rating (I could only qualify for 1G in loans at the bank) for the possibility of needing loans when we sprung for our homestead. Having had little debt in the past and a defauted student loan (since disallowed as the school obtained it fraudulently, with a nice note saying so in our credit record), we would be up a dirty creek without a propulsion system if we ever needed a mortgage or a home improvement loan. It seems to be the way things are, so I finally quit bitching about it and gave in. Will clear out said debt as soon as is feasible, as I am well aware how tempting "just put it on the card and we'll figure it out later" can be.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), January 07, 2001.

It has been a while since I have posted here. But I felt like telling of our experience this last year. Last jan.2000 the DW and I found ourselves in pretty bad shape as far as our debt. We had a 2nd mortgage of 16,000 and C.C. debt of 23,000. Debt consoladation loans can kill you! So here we were 39,000 in debt, a mortgage, six kids, 3 cars with 600,000 miles between them and a bleak out look ahead. WE sat down together as a family and decided that something had to change or we were going to fall apart at the seams. So here is what we did. Cut up all the credit cards and called the companies and cancelled them so we couldn't charge on them any more. Also we asked for a reduced interest rate on them and was rewarded by some of the companies others were a pain. Started saving 50 amonth for emergencies. With cars as old as ours that happens every month. This week it is the CV joint on the pontiac. But at least there is money there to do it. My wife went back to work to help out. Her check buys gas and food while mine goes to the bills and keeping the house going. Last spring we planted our normal large garden about 8,000 sqft. This has helped, not only helped the food budget but it helps relieve the stress. I love to tinker out there in the mornings before work. We live on one acre in a small farming community and it is so peaceful and relaxing. The sunrise and sunsets are beautiful. That has been the hardest part this past year is the stress of the debt. Hopefully the older kids understand what we are going through and won't make the same mistakes we have. So as I look at our wall chart of where we are with our debt It is nice to see the red line heading down instead of up. right now it is about 7,000 lower than last year so we are making progress. When we get discouraged that it is not coming down fast enough we have to remind our selves that it took 18 years of marriage to reach that level of debt and it will take time to get out. Sorry this is so long but sometimes it is nice to vent to someone.

Thanks for listening sm4farm

-- small for a farm (dshans@hotmail.com), January 08, 2001.

small for a farm: that is so exciting, you are doing it step by step and it has got to be an inspiration for others in your position. (there are so many)These are the wonderful stories we need to hear to help each other along. Keep plunking away and you will be so very happy with the results.I really like you chart idea so you can see the results. diane in michigan

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 08, 2001.

We were out of debt for several years after my husband got out of the Air Force, thanks to my brother letting us live in his old cabin rent- free. It was wonderful!! Then we moved from Alaska back here to NH, purchasing a house on fourteen acres that I told my husband at the time was more than we could afford to spend. Now he's finally agreed with me. We have our credit cards paid off, and only keep one for emergencies (and hardly ever use it). We paid them off with a Christmas club account that my husband had had for a couple of years at one of his jobs -- the only way he can save money is to have it taken out of a paycheck, but I think he's getting a little better. We still have two car payments and the mortgage on the property, but are working on getting ahead on both, and if we are able to sell the house, will pay the cars off before doing anything else with the money. Then we will buy a piece of land for cash, and go from there on a pay-as-we-go basis. It feels so much better to be free of debt, to have your home paid for, and know that no matter what happens to the economy, you can survive just fine on almost no income. It might be a little tougher, but you aren't going to end up homeless and starving!! Right now, while we are both working, we are not only working on reducing the debts, but also on buying things we will need that we might not be able to get later -- especially if we can use them right now. Things like chainsaws, hand-tools, seedstock for the livestock we want to have, stoves, and so on. It depends on you whether it is hard to stay out of debt once you are out. We have to work hard on being tough and saying NO when someone (I won't name names here) tries to tell us that we need something, and really we can afford the payments easily, it's only for a couple of years, and it's a good investment! HA!! If it is really such a good investment, it will still be a good investment after you've saved up the money to buy it cash, and if not, you will have the money for something that really IS a good investment!!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), January 08, 2001.

I was a foolish teenager at 19. I got credit card offers in the mail and I took them, and I spent spent spent, figuring "Hey...I'll get a summer job and pay it off". But it dawns on you that it doesnt necessarily work like that. I was in for about $18,000. 14,500 to Credit Cards, but I also owed $3500 to my mother at one point. How did I get out of it? I was lucky. I made the mistake when I was 19. I have a lot of financial backing in my family, and I had, and still have, very few expenses in my life. So I joined a debt consolidation service whom offered me a low monthly payment (Less than $300 a month), paid my mom with an extremely low interest student loan, and I now am 21, go to school, have 0....may I repeat 0 credit cards (Well...I have a debit card, but you cant go into debt with one of those) and my total monthly expenses only constitute about half of my total monthly income. So I am young and home free. Arent you jealous? Well, not really home free...I still owe 12,000...but its under complete control now. But I would like to sound off about something. I dont feel that blaming creditors for your situation is solely denial. I think a lot of the problem is that creditors extend much to much credit, especially to college students who are sick of eating Ramen Noodles and Pop Tarts. Its a big trap. "Come on in" they say, with smiles "Come on in and spend 2 thousand dollars...you only have to pay it back $50/month...Come on in and spend it..." And you do, and then when you cant pay them they call you, harass you....often causing stress, medical distress, divorce, alcoholism, and sometimes suicide. I would love to have a heart to heart talk with a collection agent about his job and what he is contributing to the world. But I doubt that a collection agent would want to have that talk with me.

-- Jordan (goneapplepicking@yahoo.com), May 04, 2001.

Another option re: credit cards that some may not be aware of is you can always arrange to settle your card accounts for less than you owe. Say you have a $15,000 debt on one credit card. You can call the company and ask to pay it off in full by paying $10,000, having the account closed, and no bad mark on your credit. The company may agree to this because they want the money--if you think of it, it takes years to pay off a $15,000 credit card with all the interest if you make a minimum payment monthly, which many people do. Some companies want their money now. This is worth asking and the worse they can say is no. Chances are they may agree if you have a significant balance on the account and have paid your bills regularly.

Another option is to agree to settle your credit card accounts for less than you owe, like above, but this will affect your credit negatively. I was told by a lawyer that just about all companies will agree to this readily . The downside is the negative mark on your credit report.

We have no credit cards and are still paying one off that we closed out. We don't have much to go. I agree with the person that said don't keep cards around for "emergencies." There is rarely the emergency that warrants going into more debt. My motto is if we can't afford to pay cash for it,w e don't buy it.

-- amy (acook@in4web.com), May 04, 2001.

Would anyone here go into debt for their college education? A student loan? Has anyone here done that and how did it pay off? I want to finish my degree but can't pay the full tuition. My employer may not pay tuition reimbursement and grants will not cover the cost. I am like most people here and don't have a large stash in savings or I would use that. I am almost debt free now, just four years left on my farm, and have very low cc debt, less than a thousand dollars. Would any of you who have gotten a student loan do so again? Did the degree increase your salary enough to justify the debt. I am the only one working in our household outside the farm, my sweetie runs the farm (he's working, just not getting a paycheck if you know what I mean), so extra money would be nice. Of course if I don't go back to school, I wouldn't have the debt and after the house is paid for wouldn't need as much money...it is the old catch 22 here. What are your experiences?

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), May 05, 2001.

Depends what you call 'being in debt.' If you can afford to buy a new house and make the payments, or buy a new vehicle every 3-4 years and afford the payments, without sacrificing, I don't call that being in debt. I use my charge card all the time, but I pay the bill in full when it comes in.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), May 06, 2001.

Cindy, if I was in your position, I would be looking at what the college degree is going to add to my life long-term. What are my goals? What about goals for the farm, and possible income from it? How cheaply could you finish your education? Would it hurt anything to wait until you have everything else paid off and then could perhaps pay cash to finish your degree one or two classes at a time? And if your employer or whoever reimbursed the tuition, that would be gravy. I had wanted for years to go back to school, as I quit college after only two years to get married -- felt like I needed to finish what I'd started, if nothing else. But with a handicapped daughter who needs me full-time, going back to school would be difficult, and I've finally decided to drop it. It wouldn't really contribute that much to our well-being over the long run, and I hate working outside the home for someone else, anyway, so I'm seriously focusing on getting a home-based business going. That way I can have an income, and take care of my daughter without having to rely on others. And still be home where I prefer to be, anyway. Hope this helps.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 09, 2001.