My Brothers and Sisters of the Clergy: I have a question which I have placed on ALL of the Christian message boards and chatrooms. The Lord has been dealing with me on this issue and I would like to present this topic to you guys. Since we are living in the last and final days, the Rapture of the Church can happen at anytime (as soon a the Church gets her act together) Why in our places of worship and in the midst of services, nothing is preached or stressed out of the Book of Revelation? Have we compromised with the majority and caved in to preach a wated down miltose perverted form of the Gospel rather than be responsible in the call which the Lord Jesus charged us with and tell the world the harsh but blessed reality of the events which are about to take place?

-- Anonymous, December 27, 2000

Answers

Good Morning My Studious Sister:

I don't want to be presumptuous but exactly how would you like to be addressed? Should I refer to you as Lori, sister Crawford, Minister Crawford, Gospeldove? I am not a member of the clergy but the question you pose raise important theological implications. The Book of Revelations is a book about Eschatology [Last Days]. The numerous metaphorical references require a disciplined mind when reading the passages and cross-references, like the Book of Daniel. But to understand the eschatological framework it necessitates an understanding about the historical forces and political situation during the time it was written. It has been my experience that few teachers are disciplined to unveil the metaphysical truths of this great book. Earlier this year one of the participants of this BB [Vernon Byrd, Jr.] created a thoughtful thread which asked somewhat rhetorically which of the 7 Churches in Revelations resembled our AME Zion? I would recommend that you check out his question and the attendent responses.

Now your question makes two critical assertions: [1] Most churches do not preach from the Book of Revelations and [2] We are living in the last days. Now I don't want to be picky but if you have not conducted a representative sample or personally attended all of the 500,000+ churches in the US what statistical basis can you make for assertion 1? I know what people generally mean when they say "most" but it has no statistical legitimacy if the conclusion is not based on proper sampling procedures. Second, assertion 2 has in fact been posited for a long, long time. The author of Revelations, much like the early Christian Church were explicitly apocalyptic [end of the world] in their teaching and preaching. The next to last verse in Revelations [22:20]is actually a plea by the author for Jesus to expedite His Second Coming. Religious prognosticators [e.g. Nostradamus, Father Divine, Jehovah's Witnesses] over the last 500 hundred years have attempted to make bold predictions concerning when the last days would begin. You may recall that some even believed that the year 2000 would usher in the "Last Days". The point is simply every generation believes we are in the last days. Our responsibility as Christians is to be less concerned about when the Parousia [2nd Coming] occurs but instead focusing on doing the things our Saviour commands. QED

-- Anonymous, December 28, 2000

Good morning baby brother Bill and Rev. Crawford, the book of Revalations is indeed an important book to preach and have in Bible study. Because of the metaphors that are used, that Bill so rightly pointed out, it is a powerful book and should be looked at also as a historical document of oppression against the christians. Christians could not speak out against the king without the fear of death, but through metaphors the king and his injustices could be discussed and the power of God would overcome the evil that was at hand. I preach from Revelation and teach from the book also. As do most of the colleagues that I know. It very easy to generalize but such generalizations are hurtful to christians and the church as a whole. I must admit Rev. Crawford I have been concerned about sweeping indictments against the AME church that you have been sharing on the board. This is a very loving, passionate and intelligent group of people who read and write on this board. God is in charge of every church on this earth, and those who do not obey God, God will deal with in his own way. I think our challenge individually is to focus on our love relationship with God, and sharing that love with others. Christ calls us to be his hands, arms feet in this world and to go forth with love. St. Paul admonished the church of Corinth, because they had gifts to preach, speak in tongue and had built a church, but they had no love for God's people. If we quote scripture condemn the church and show no love or forgiveness, then we are but a clanging gong, as Paul say in I corinthians 13. In conclusion when we read Revelation in it's entirety we see that we as christians are victorious!

-- Anonymous, December 28, 2000

Minister Crawford, firstly, our Protestant Bible consists of 66 books altogether. EACH ONE IS RELEVANT!

Secondly, because of the unique situation of the audience in Revelation and the way in which the author related his message about Christ to them, the message differs from other documents in the New Testament also dealing with the end times(written to other groups with different problems). A comparison between 1 Thessalonians and Revelation will reveal how differently Paul and the author of Revelation wrote about the end of the world.

I hope that you do not hold a simplistic view regarding the last days. Maranatha! God Bless.

-- Anonymous, December 28, 2000

Hummmmm......I didn't realize a question such as this ruffled SO MANY FEATHERS !?!?! (HaHa) I must give you all a pat on your backs for your theological efforts.....I am sad to say....you all didn't address the point. I see NO ONE has touched my question about the importance of the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tonuges either....hummm.....anyway. Sis Denise, I would like to say, not one time I have made any negative statements towards the AME Church. When I talk about "church" I am discussing the body of beleivers who make up the organism. Also you dont need to call me "reverend" for we are NOT to call anyone this tittle because the Lord God is the only one holds this lofty tittle. And calling anyone or yourself this tittle, is a form of blasheming. (I dont have my bible in front of me I have scriptures to support this statement) Bro Bill, your points and study good, however, you are looking at this from historical standpoint. Cedric, brother, all 66 books are revelant, I agree with you on that, is the Church in line with the 66 books of the Word? The Book of Revelation is a well detailed book in which brings forth many discussions in the field of end-time prophecy. As a student of bibical and historical thought, it sometimes get a bit messy to teach with all it's symbols locked into symbols locked into sybmols. This book was written (with the other 65 books of the Bible) was written on a the Revelative-Spritual realm. This is what it is commonaly called as revelative knowledge. This goes beyond rhema word, but the Lord himself reveals or shall I say, gives you the key to unlock the mystery which He is saying. The key is the Holy Ghost. Most saints read the Bible from a physical stance meaning they read what they see and beleive at face value. True, but this not how the Word of God is to read. The Bible was constructed to unlock the mysteries which the Father bestowed upon us. Before the Word was written Prophets were the ones who foretold the coming events of the Lord. If you read also in some of the prophetic books of the Bible, it is also broken down into revealtive knowledge, which man in his own flesh cannot comphehend. We have interpret what we think God is saying to us but how many of us asked the Lord to unlock the explaination of what He has written? Paul, Peter and especially John, walked in revelation knowledge. This came forth through a lifestyle of selling out completely unto the Lord. We read of scriptures of how Paul escorted to the third heaven and Peter's shadow healed people. The only way John could write the book of Revelations is by mortifying his flesh completely and enter the realm of the spirit. The Holy Ghost is the one who teaches us all things and brings us into the knowledge of the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ. Many folks only know, preach and teach from the physical stance, but God is calling us to get into His revelation knowledge. I must go but I will continue this on tommorrow.

-- Anonymous, December 28, 2000

Minister Crawford, I hope that is the correct title. You did not ruffle my feathers at all, I felt I answered your question fairly and with love. God has called me to ordained ministry and my life and heart belong to him as well as this specialized ministry that God has placed before me. It is an honor to serve God. The title of Rev. Is not blesphemus to me, for it refers to who I work for. What is blasphemus is to have a title in front of ones name and not have love for the body of christ or God. So please call me Rev. or Pastor for they are titles God has bestowed on me. By the way when you ruffle my feathers I will let you know. (smile) but for now it is good to exchange points of view. Loving the lord as Rev. Denise Rogers

-- Anonymous, December 28, 2000

We can't use "Reverend"? That's a new one on me, but I'm open to teaching. What are your scriptures?

On to Revelation! In my circles we preach, sing, talk about, and read Revelation a great deal. However, we don't plan on being here when most of it occurs. I'm going to be On That Golden Shore.

We find ourselves in the same place as the ancient Jews when reading about their future Messaiah. They could get a general picture, but no specifics. But those who were watching for His appearance recognized Him when He came. I'm in the same situation. I can't tell you who the anti-christ is, but I'll not hesitate to preach with certainty that there is going to be an anti-Christ. Same goes for the Rapture, Tribulation, Millenium, battle of Armageddon, etc. In other words, general terms. Now as one who is watching, it sure looks like it's getting close. I'm ready!

By the way, I responded to your other entry.

-- Anonymous, December 28, 2000

President Bill Clinton has some of the charactistics of the anti- Christ; very popular, and now he is preaching peace after bombiing Yugoslavia into submission,etc., Hmmmm. Pastor Paris

-- Anonymous, December 29, 2000

With regard to the presenting question, my pastor preached from this actively in her previous charge. We also conducted a Bible Study of several months on the Book of Revelation. So I can't answer at a local level why it's not being done because the premise to the question is not true. Regarding the use of "reverend": Two passages imply that this should not be applied to humans. Psalm 111:9 tells us that "reverend" is God's name. Matthew 23:8-9 teaches us to call no "man" "Rabbi", and to also not call one "father". Both passages should be explored in their full context for deeper understanding. Regarding the Eschaton: Millenial Fever also afflicted the church at the turn of the last millenium, given that it was nearly 1000 years since the death of Christ. There were those who concluded (incorrectly) that the Millenial Kingdom must be coming. The prime drivers to our own beliefs throughout evangelical Christendom that the end times are approaching are several:

The making of a nation of Israel, which had not been a whole, recognized nation, on May 14(?), 1948. This occurred 2350 prophetical years after a key date, and therefore has merit with regard to eschatological prophecy;

The interpretation of the restoration of Israel in the context of the parable of the Fig Tree - some have taught that at the time of restoration, the generation would not pass until messiah was come (I think Matthew 24, but it may be in all synoptic gospels);

The rise of the United Nations - This latest effort at global governance has proceeded far beyond all its predecessors - the Treaty of Vienna in the 1800s, the League ogf Nations in early 1900s. A Global/"one-world" government is a hallmark of the enemy's plan for humankind (Rev. 6, Dan 7-11, Rev. 12-14);

The move away from national sovereignty to "internationalism" - Check the way the newspapers read today versus how they read in 1936.

The increase in knowledge, and the increase in speed of things (Daniel 11-12)

The constancy of belligerence in the Middle East, and the "threat" of a peace treaty (which we anticipate will be 7 years) (Daniel 8-11);

The rise of lawlessness in certain societies, and the devaluation of life through abortion, euthenasia, and eugenics (Rev. 6-12)

The increased disparities in global wealth through the concentration of wealth (Rev. 6:1-10, the "black" horse).

These are only some of the characteristics that portend the end. I encourage all to study the books of Revelation, Zechariah, Daniel, Ezekiel (34-40), and II Thessalonians for a better understanding.

Regarding Mr. Clinton - He and family have moved to New York. His wife will have her own career. Have you thought about what he will do? I have heard one report that he intends to set up a policy tank in New York City. 1) The UN is headquartered in New York. 2)Bill Clinton is a Rhodes Scholar. 3) Bill Clinton is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. 4) The Seceretrary-General term, the position of leadership and visibility in the UN expires in 2001 (S-G's serve for five year terms). Just some food for thought.

-- Anonymous, December 29, 2000

Goodness, it seems I have to pick up my own feathers, cause I got blown away with all the comments LOL!! I need to step on back!! Let me take me and my feathers back to the Apostolic and COGIC Chats where I belong...y'all are too deep for me!! How in the world did Bill Clinton get in this discussion anyway hahahahahaha!!! (time to get ready for the Bushes....AGAIN!!) Jerryl...the verses that support the usage of reverand...thanks..I couldn't type and flip through my bible at the same time. LOL God Bless Gospeldove

-- Anonymous, December 29, 2000

Although I can not speak for most churches, here at St. Paul Revelation has been used twice in this month. Once by a visiting minister and once by my pastor. I'm not a minister but my training tells me that a pastor must be proficient in the Bible to be able to preach from Revelation. I have listen as good preachers are bless with a word and are able to cross reference to Revelation. They start out in Genesis but end up in Revelation. What a wonder it is to listen to God's word being preached whether it is being preached from Nahum, Habakkuk, Luke,or Revelation. We love Revelation because it speaks so clearly of Jesus. Some do fear the message in Revelation but we look at it as hope that if we do our work in the heat of the day maybe we can be "One in the Number". DR

-- Anonymous, December 30, 2000

HELLO I FIND THAT THE BOOK OF REVALATIONS IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF CHRITIANITY. THIS BOOK OF THE BIBLE DESCRIBES THE END OF THE FLESH AND A WORLD FOR THE SPIRIT, THE END OF THE BATTLE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL. SOME TAKE IT AS A METOPHOR, BECAUSE OF THE VISIONARY ASPECTS OF THIS GOSPEL. I SEE IT VERY SIMPLY,AND LITERALY. WE WERE GIVEN FREE WILL TO FOLLOW THE PATH OF GOOD OR OF EVIL.

WE ATE OF THE APPLE.

WE HAVE RECIEVED THE GIFTS THAT CAME WITH IT.

WE LEARNED HOW TO BE SELFISH.

WE LEARNED HOW TO PLACE BLAME.

WE LEARNED HOW TO ENSLAVE OUR BROTHERS.

WE LEARNED TO TAKE POWER OVER THEM.

AND WE LEARNED HOW TO KILL.

WE LEARNED WHAT IT IS TO BE EVIL...

THERE WAS HOPE, THERE WAS A CROSS, AN EXAMPLE.

WE LEARNED HOW TO LOVE.

WE LEARNED HOW TO SACRIFICE OF OURSELVES.

WE LEARNED HOW TO GIVE WITHOUT RECIEVING.

WE LEARNED HOW TO PRAISE GOD.

BUT MOST OF ALL WE LEARNED TO SEPERATE OUR SELVES. FROM GOD AND ONE ANOTHER. THEN REPLACE OUR CREATOR WITH THINGS OF THE WORLD REJECTING THE SPIRIT. AND DENYING HIM.

WHAT HAS THIS TO DO WITH REVALATIONS??

THE BOTTOM LINE,WHAT WILL WE CHOOSE WILL WE CHOOSE,, TO DENY GOD AND ACCEPT DEATH OR TO DENY EVIL AND ACCEPT GOD

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

"President Bill Clinton has some of the charactistics of the anti- Christ; very popular, and now he is preaching peace after bombiing Yugoslavia into submission,etc., Hmmmm."

And so does millions of other people...what is your point? I don't have to look very hard to the horns coming out President Bush's skull. Why are his buddies in Euorpeans protesting against his visit? Barbarism! Ingorance is the anti-Christ (against anionting--- against connecting to THAT which IS)! Come Pastor Paris...

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

I am sure "most" pastors get thier guidance for preaching from the Holy Spirit, the REAL preacher. I know that is my primary source and as He leeds me, I will follow. And by the way, He has led me to The Revelation of Jesus Christ on more than one occasion.

Blessings, Pastor Paris

-- Anonymous, June 18, 2001

I agree. We should be studying the Book of Revelations. We are not all ready to accept the Lord. To Live within Him, to die for Him and our faith. How can we convince those who are not ready to give up this world all its wealth and greed. All their attitudes that say, I can do it all by myself. I am struggling with the thought that doing my best to help those in need, serving the Lord, asking for forgiveness and my repentence; will not be enough to get me to heaven. I Love God above all things these days and when my days get so hectic I struggle to appreciate God's blessings for me. Revelations make me see that I may not be acceptable to receive my place in heaven. Is this a normal reaction to this book or am I in need of more prayer and repentance?

I look forward to any response. God bless you all. Pat Kolb

-- Anonymous, October 19, 2002