Before reading this post, read the one on The End of Factory Farming.

I have seen several references on the forum to where sheep should not be given feed which contains copper. However, in the two reference books I have on sheep (The Sheep Raiser's Manual and Raising Sheep the Modern Way), neither even mentions copper.

I understand scrapies is basically the sheep form of BSE. Is perhaps scrapies caused by a deficiency of copper?

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), December 08, 2000

Answers

P.S. Does anyone know the status of USDA against the Vermont Milk Sheep herds?

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), December 08, 2000.

Ken, my reading of the post from England indicates sheep and other feedlot farm animals SHOULD be given copper. The question I would think is how much. If, as Earthmamma says, cooking in copper pans is detrimental to human health, it would seam very little copper is needed. Here mostly sheep are grown on the open range and penned at night. None of my people give supplemental feed, that I know of,

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), December 08, 2000.

Ken, Here in Maine the vets we have say to avoid copper for goats and sheep as it does not dissapear in their system. It keeps building up and will eventually kill them. I only bought locally grown and mixed feed to make sure there wasn't any copper. I have been told it is good for cows and horses though. But I don't know for sure. Michelle

-- michelle (tsjheath@ainop.com), December 09, 2000.

We raise sheep in Iowa and have been advised by our vet and by everything that we have read that sheep do not require supplemental copper and indeed it can be toxic. Very trace mineral blocks for copper at the most should be used if you're putting out a mineral block. We heard of a small sheep flock that was nearly eliminated because the producer had a load of feed delivered that had been run thru the auger after a load of hog feed went thru -- the culprit, copper residue from the hog feed. Isn't BSE the same as Mad Cow Disease? I believe that is related to animal bone meal products being fed back to the cows. There is a real mess going on over in Europe right now with BSE, it's been found in cows in Spain, France, Germany as well as England.

-- richard marlar (gladmorning@farmtel.net), December 09, 2000.

All livestock needs copper in their diet, and if you live where there is enough copper and low molybelium in the soil, than your stock is gleaning the copper they need from the graze and hay (if grown and cut locally) so no supplemental copper would be needed. Very few of us know where the grain in our feed mixes come from. Sheep metabolise everything including copper very slowly and goats metabolise everything including copper very quickly. So the sheep need much less copper than the goats.

Michelle, I would be concerened about your goats if you are not supplementing in the very least way, in your grain mix, unless you live in a place with soil analysis or perhaps it is locally known that your soils contain excess amounts of copper. Copper diffiency in goats is pretty easy to spot with excess growth of long hair that is usually tinged in red at the ends in darker hair growth, or in white goats, is a total lack of pigment. Older stock will have bald tail tips. The ends of the hair will look as if they have gotten a bad perm. You also see trouble with heats, coming in heat very late in the year, retained placentas, excessive worm burdens and lowered immunity, just to name a few! We find that most goats react favorably to supplementation of even minimal amounts of copper. You can easily check to see the copper levels of your stock by taking a fresh liver in to your vet for a piece to be sent off to a lab, when you butcher a buck. In fact with the correct amounts of copper supplementation in my herd this last several years, we have not had to use selenium supplementation in as many years. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 09, 2000.

My understanding about copper and sheep is that yes, they need some,as do all mammals, but not in the amounts that most other ruminants do. THats why regular salt blocks/supplements are too high in copper for sheep. Most breeds of sheep need only a tiny percentage of c0pper in their diet,and higher amounts are toxic. However, there are certain breeds of sheep that need more; think it has a lot to do with their genetic place of origin.

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), December 10, 2000.

No, no, not copper supplements....IRON supplements. You could make a fortune in steel wool! ;-)

-- Chelsea (rmbehr@istar.ca), December 14, 2000.

Sheep accumulate copper in the liver more readily than other farm animals and are highly susceptible to copper toxicity. Sheep should not be supplemented with copper, or allowed access to supplements containing high levels of copper.

Altho goats need copper, it is possible to induce copper toxicity in goats. Copper accumulates in the liver. Red/brown urine may be a sign of copper poisoning. Using calf milk replacers has caused copper poisoning in kid goats.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), December 15, 2000.