Is there any comparison? Is every republican blind??? How many people are seeing with tunnel vision which will blind them when the impeachment of Bush starts.

How many people know that a book written about GW Bush was pulled from the presses and BURNED???

How is it that anyone can write a book about anyone and it goes to press with no problem, but one written about GW upset Daddy Bush and was literally burned? In AMERICA!!

Okay, so people turned a blind eye when Bush continued to propagate the myth that Al Gore claimed he invented the internet, even after it was proven that the rumor was started and propagated by the press, when the Repubs kept insisting that the Gore campaign was using negative campaigning, when it was they, themselves who were constantly constantly using innuendo's and slurs against the Gore camp and Democrats.

The Republicans have gotten away with almost everything underhanded trick they have tried. Until now. They are showing, publicly, and in full view of the nation and the world, how they function.

Bush and co publicly announced their intention to use these tactics in the event they lost the electoral vote and won the popular vote.

They are using the exact methods they spelled to the media that they would use, days before the election.

They are making statements about people and organizations that should keep the courts busy for years settling slander suits.

They just spout out anything they feel like saying, repeating it over and over in the belief that if it is said enough times everyone will believe it is true!

Sound familiar? Like in Y2K FUD.

And this blatant effort to interrupt the ballot checking by shipping in people from all over the country to "demonstrate" and disrupt and give the false perception that people are rioting in the streets over the legal counting of those questionable "chads"????

Can anyone doubt the charges that have been filed over intimidation and harassment of minority voters?

There has just been too many instances of questionable behavior by the republican and Bush camps to be ignored. They are now showing us publicly that they believe only their choice of laws and rules should be followed. For example, the overseas ballots. The rules are that they have to be postmarked and signed. There is a very good reason for this. If they are not, anyone could have filled out the ballot. The postmark is to prove where it was mailed from. Otherwise, anyone could just "drop off" bunches of them here and there without notice.

Florida has been plagued with voter fraud in the recent past and laws are in place to prevent it. The bush camp and republicans are screaming that Gore is demanding recounts until he wins, This is spin intending to influence public opinion. The Gore campaign is following legal procedures that were in place before the election. But for some reason, the Bush camp publicly decries the rights and freedom of the Gore camp to do exactly what they are doing. When they stated PUBLICLY before the election that they would do the same thing if the rolls were reversed!

The Republicans are attempting to influence public opinion and deny every single person in this country the right to decide who we want for president!

The way the Bush Camp ruthlessly smashed the McCain campaign in their effort to get Bush elected as the republican nominee. The illegal and immoral behavior of the Bush campaign is beyond belief. The American public has been lulled into letting the media do their thinking for them and the media passed along everything they were spoon-fed by the republicans.

The sick point of this whole thing is how the public and media have turned a blind eye to what has been and is going on.

How is it possible that there is so much money and power being expended in the effort to have this one person elected as leader of the most powerful country in the world? GW Bush has been a failure in almost every thing his father set him up in. There is little doubt about his lack of mental ability. He is incapable of handling an interview. He has not given an interview that was not "staged" in almost a year. He is the epitome of "The Ugly American". If this man gets into office, in no time at all he will be offending world leaders and making statements and decisions which could conceivably cause unrest and even war. We need a president, not a puppet controlled and manipulated by his "advisors". Is this Bush Sr's attempt to get back in the white house? It sure smells like it.

There have been so many irregularities in Bush's campaign and background that he should never have been allowed to run in the first place.

He did not disclose his DUI. People say "so what, lots of people have had them". I will tell you so what; he had no legal right to hide and/or evade the facts about his past criminal or legal offenses. ANY person who fails to disclose or lie when asked such questions while applying for a job or the military, are subject to legal actions. It is the law. The law applies to everyone equally. This include GW Bush.

After all of the Bull Sh*t we had to go through because Clinton lied about a sexual act, after having it shoved down our throats for over a year, how dare the republicans attempt to put a man into office who cannot account for the time he was supposed to have served in the military? Who will not deny drug use? Who excuses drunkenness at 40 as adolescent behavior?

The media has to get off of their lazy butts and start doing some real investigative reporting. They look like fools. The republicans who are playing along with this charade are setting themselves and their political futures up for a big downfall. People are tired of what has happened after the election, but what they are tired of is not Al Gore doing what he legally and rightfully should do, but the manipulation and coercion of the Bush campaign and republican party.

The fact is, the majority of people in this country do not want GW Bush as president. The fact is, he will be president in name only, we, the people will fight anything he does to destroy all the advances we have made in this country in the last 30 years and in two years the results of this campaign will be felt in the polling booths. In four years the republicans will have lost the house and senate and the entire party will be in decline. There will be a number of other organizations ready and willing to step in and become the second party.

This entire farce makes me sick.

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2000

Answers

I think the main reason I feel so strongly about this is because I have always had such a strong belief that government should not interfere or hinder the workings of business and industry. My respect for big business and industry started to crumble when those reorganizations started stripping them of the high moral standards which were the foundations on which they were based, those things which made them suceed.

Today government has to protect the workers and consumers from them, the republicans want to remove those protections. It's all about money. Strip the protective laws and today industries (not all) will cause irreprible harm to workers the enviroment, and consumers. They should not be forced to do what is morally correct. Worker loyalty has dissapeared with good reason. So has consumer loyalty. Business has done it to themselves, in the quest of higher profits. It is all falling apart, job security is fading, people cannot depend on a source of income when they get retire. Add to that the the increasing cost of staying alive after retirement. The healthcare industry is doing the same thing to people. Now with the possibility of Bush becoming president, social security is threatened. We are fast becoming stripped of all the security we once had after working for the majority of our lives. With little or no retirement benifits, loss of social security, etc we are going to be overwhelmed with a society of senior citizens with no means of support. Instead of stripping away the "potential" future income from social security, we should be working on strengthening and adding to it. How will people live when they get old? Who will take care of them? How will they feed themselves? How will they recieve medical care? Will they recieve it or will it only go to the rich, those who benifitted from stripping social security in the first place? Or will there come a time when people are "put to sleep" like animals when they reach a certain age or physical state? Sound like nazi germany? The Bush family hadbeen big followers of Hitler and his ideas. No matter, people will not be "put out", no, they will just be denied medical treatment so "nature can takes it's course". After all, these people will have lived a full life, why spend money and effort on keeping them alive when they no longer have anything to contribute to society? There is no "profit" in keeping them alive, and after all... isn't the bottom line "profit"?

I haven't changed my views, business and industry has changed, and republican party has changed. Newt rammed his lessons down the throat of the freshmen polititions and they are following his teaching better than even he had forseen. Now even he attempting to stop the behavior he encouraged. I have watched them change and I don't like what I see. I'm not going to blindly support them when they are in the wrong. Until the republicans clean up their act and business turn around and start behaving a socially responsible manner, I will fight them with everything I've got.

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2000

Can't argue with anything you've written. Makes me sick just to think about him taking the "oath" of office. Pffft.

One thing I will hopefully clarify is this:

"The media has to get off of their lazy butts and start doing some real investigative reporting."

They have done "some real investigative reporting"; but think back to your second paragraph about the book that was burned. If Daddy Bush can make that happen, why is it so far-fetched to believe that the press can be "under the influence"?

Paul had posted a link to an article (on Poole's Inside the Web board) that indicated there had been a sort of "mandate" stating that no negative Bush reporting was going to be published. Wish I had the link, but it's gone. It's not even difficult to believe this could happen, especially when one takes the "book burning" into account.

I've been asking for weeks now why McCain wasn't on the ticket. More "influence"?

I just can't in good conscience support that guy if/when he takes office. No way. It amazes me that anyone can, knowing who and what he is. What are these people thinking?!?! He can't even run a business ..... except into the ground. And people actually think he can run the most powerful nation on earth? His entire life to date has been helped along by Daddy and/or Daddy's friends. He has apparently never had to make a decision on his own. This is explained away by his "supporters" as "I'm glad he has good people around him; I'm glad he looks to his advisors". Pffft again.

Gore may not be the best man for the job (putting it mildly), but Bush borders on criminal (nevermind incompetent). (And remember that the Republicans had eight years to find "stuff" on Gore; what'd they come up with? "I invented the Internet"; a statement that was taken out of context by the media and twisted.). Bush's campaign manager stated that their entire strategy (despite Bush's claim of "no negative ads" -- pffft yet again) was that they had catalogued something like 27 years of Gore statements and every time he'd say something, they'd match it against something he had previously stated. If it differed at all ..... it was fed to the media (by Bush's campaign people) as A Lie. They were quite proud of this strategy. And why not? It worked. It had the desired effect; and if you doubt that, just take a look at the Bush supporters here and on TB2K II. Read their words about Gore. Sound familiar? It should. It all came out of Bush's campaign people.

Now, anyone want to tell me again which way the "media" is biased?

Republicans have been lambasting Clinton for his lies; Gore for his "embellishments"; yet they overlook Bush's "omissions". What hypocrisy.

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2000

How many people know that a book written about GW Bush was pulled from the presses and BURNED???

News to me. What was that all about?

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2000

Yes, it most certainly was. Fortunate Son. A little publishing house picked it up after the big one pulled it at Bush's request. (A rather strong request, with flavor of lawsuit.)

http://www.tylwythteg.com/enemies/Bush/bush219.html

Oh, you asked about the plans to lobby the electoral college the other day, too. Here ya go!

http://www.nydailynews.com/2000-11- 01/News_and_Views/Beyond_the_City/a-86769.asp

Interviews with Bush aides about plans to try to get electoral college members to change their votes, week before all this mess started.

How have you been doing, CD? Anything new going on?

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2000

Curses. This board separated that last URL at the dashes, then put it back together with a space between them.

www.nydailynews.com/2000-11-01/News_and_Views/Beyond_the_City/a- 86769.asp

www.nydailynews.com/2000-11-01/News_and_Views/Beyond_the_City/a- 86769.asp

Well, with that much hint, I'm sure you can figure it out if you are interested.

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2000

Thanks for the Bush book link, Paul.

How have you been doing, CD? Anything new going on?

Doin' good. Thanks for asking. Still playing beach bum down here in Pensacola. (Ya know, it's only about a 7 hour drive from Memphis should you ever feel the need to get outta Dodge for a while. Consider it a standing invitation.)

Best,

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2000

Might just do that CD, been a while since I've been to Pensacola. Haven't seen those white sand beaches since the 70's, when I visited a physicist that worked for NASA, before the big cutback.

Guess we will find out if either Gore or Bush has the sense Hayes showed when he ran, won't we?

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2000

How many people are seeing with tunnel vision which will blind them when the impeachment of Bush starts.

LOL, getting a little ahead of ourselves aren't we? He is not even in office yet and you are ready to impeach him. Gawd, that's nutsy.

The law applies to everyone equally. This include GW Bush.

Yawn....equally to everyone except Bill Clinton, who you brought up in your title. Bill Clinton committed PURJURY because he lied about sex, it was not just a little white lie he told to his wife. Frankly I never cared that he got hummers from Monica, more power to him if his wife doesn't mind it, he could screw Jennifer Flowers hanging from a chandelier for all I cared about that. BUT, if I were accused of sexual harassment my past sexual behavior would be called into question in court and I would be bound BY LAW to tell the TRUTH about it. Bill Clinton chose to LIE about his past escapades.

The fact is, the majority of people in this country do not want GW Bush as president.

Same for Al Gore, since half chose not to vote, and half of those who did voted for Bush.

Cherri, you seem to be stuck in a "Bush is evil, Gore is a saint" meme.

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2000

"And this blatant effort to interrupt the ballot checking by shipping in people from all over the country to "demonstrate" and disrupt and give the false perception that people are rioting in the streets over the legal counting of those questionable "chads"????"

It seems Cherri that you are the one that is blind, no false perception there. BTW, Gore was the first on the scene in Florida, with 50 lawyers supporting seven suits. Jesse held the first "demonstrations" in Florida. The demonstration to which you refer was "initiated" mostly by the press. Why? Because your guys (the purist dems) wanted to go behind closed doors to count the "votes". I wonder how many votes they can contrive with that "fair and accurate" count.

And they are "questionable" chads. The machine has rules and counts votes based on those rules. Your democratic buddys continue to change the rules. It seems there weren't enough votes for Gore using the rules, so they included these chads. Burton himself said that "we don't know what that number is" when referring to the number of dimpled chads on a ballot that would constitute the voter's intent. Karnac the magnificent, holding the ballot to his forehead and "feeling" the intent of the voter! LOL

Cherri, please get your facts straight.

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2000

Found a rather interesting editorial that sums it up nicely.

What makes people think Bush has won?

By Robert Kuttner, Globe Correspondent, 11/26/2000

''Politics ain't beanbag''
- Finley Peter Dunne

ONE OF THE MANY oddities of this cliffhanger election is what might be called the entitlement gap. Right from election night, the Republicans have behaved as if the election was theirs, while Vice President Gore has temporized. This sense of Republican entitlement in turn translates into a partisan rage that if Gore should win, the election will have been stolen.

But consider: It's pretty clear that more Florida voters intended to vote for Gore. At least 19,000 votes in Palm Beach County were voided because they were punched twice, reflecting voter confusion over which hole meant Gore and which one meant Buchanan. These were nearly all Gore votes. Another 3,000 or so Palm Beach voters who voted for Buchanan meant to vote for Gore.

There is also the plain illegality that some 15,000 absentee ballot applications in Seminole County that should have been disqualified as incomplete were cleaned up by Republican election officials.

SNIP

There's something neither Republican "supporters" nor the so- called "liberal media" have spoken of lately -- the Seminole County debacle. But I'm not surprised, what with that damn "liberal media bias". LOL.

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2000

I intend to do a lot of things. I intend to lose weight but don't. I intend to exercise more but don't. I intend to clean my house more frequently but don't. I intend to retire but don't. I intend to save more money but don't.

Priceless: Gore lost the election because people who intended to vote for him didn't.

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2000

Sunday November 26 7:05 PM ET

Tampering Alleged in Seminole County

By MIKE BRANOM, Associated Press Writer

SANFORD, Fla. (AP) - Accusing Republicans of illegally tampering with thousands of absentee ballot applications, Democrats are asking a Seminole County court to throw out the disputed ballots, a move that would shift 4,700 votes away from George W. Bush (news - web sites).

Bush received 10,006 absentee votes in Seminole, compared to 5,209 for Al Gore (news - web sites).

The lawsuit was filed Nov. 17 by Democratic attorney Harry Jacobs, who said all absentee ballots in the county should be thrown out if the disputed absentee votes can't be identified and dismissed.

The suit was headed to court Monday, when Republicans will ask to have the case dismissed.

Florida GOP Vice Chairman Jim Stelling, who has been following the lawsuit, said: ``I'd be lying if I said I wasn't nervous.'' Stelling, also the county Republican chairman, declined to reveal anything about the GOP's grounds for requesting the dismissal.

The suit follows efforts by parties to get absentee ballots into the hands of voters. The GOP mailed tens of thousands of absentee requests to registered Republicans, telling them to sign the form and return it to their local supervisor of elections.

Seminole County elections chief Sandra Goard, a Republican, rejected requests because voters omitted their identification numbers. According to the lawsuit, she then accepted some 4,700 applications after allowing two GOP workers to add the ID numbers.

Goard said the GOP asked whether a staff member could add the IDs and she agreed. Two Republican staffers spent days at the county elections office with a laptop computer, matching ballot requests to names and writing the identification numbers on the requests.

``The Republican Party asked if they could resolve that situation,'' Goard said. ``They had an individual who had a database. We provided a chair - that's all.''

``Where we have misconduct, wrongdoing sufficient to influence the outcome of an election, then the Florida courts have decided that this is even more important than the individual ballot submitted by an absentee voter,'' Jacobs said.

State law allows only voters, members of their immediate family or their legal guardians to request absentee ballots. It does not specifically address the handling of absentee requests.

What happened in Seminole County appears to be illegal, said Joseph Little, professor of law at the Levin College of Law at the University of Florida. However, he said dismissing 15,000 absentee ballots for a ``technical violation'' would be overkill.

``I don't think there is any wrongdoing on the part of the people voting,'' he said.

Link

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2000

Well, doggone. Isn't not pushing the stylus entirely through the card a 'technical' violation?

Oh, well, if consistency was a political strong suit, then DC would be a nudist camp.

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2000

Maria, did you "intend" to address the point that was being made about Seminole County?

Paul, that has to be the best line I've heard in a while.

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2000

Well, I had to say something. Those of you who read my little remarks on my absentee ballot being thrown out some years back, for exactly this kind of tampering by a Republican official, might realize why I feel a bit angry about this incident.

Not one single person has made a substantiated charge of fraud against the counters in those three counties. Not one charge against a person, everything is against nebulous 'entities'. Yet a Republican can ADMIT to breaking the law, and it is just being 'helpful'.

Just like that court clerk was 'helpful' when she 'added' a little something to my ballot, so she could have it thrown out and win another four years.

TANJ, TANJ, TANJ!

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2000

Paul, doesn't this seem at all familiar to you? Same time last year? A board not too far away? Same apparent disconnect, excuses, rationalizations, "party line" (and hasn't THAT taken on a whole new meaning), etc.? Oh sure, some of the names have changed.....

I swear, if I wasn't currently living in LV, I'd think it was still 1999.

The thing that gets me the most is what you've just pointed out -- not one substantiated charge, yet the Repubs would have us believe there is all kinds of voter fraud on the part of the Dems. So, serve up the evidence boys. What's that, you say? No evidence? You mean, you just know these things? I'm stunned. Simply stunned.

Anita posted a link to a Margaret Shemo "rebuttal" of a Peggy Noonan piece (posted it on TB2K II, but I'm sure you've seen it on bartcop). Simply amazing how Noonan's articles make it past alleged editors. Fact-checking? What's that? Research? Huh? What's that about a "liberal media bias"? I still don't see it; perhaps someone would be good enough to point it out to me.....

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2000