My wife and I are trying to resolve whether or not it is possible to be a true homesteader in the suburbs. We have just seven tenths of an acre. We have ducks, a garden,dwarf fruit trees, and a wood shop. Does anyone believe that we can scale down a homestead, keep it aesthetically acceptable to the snobs, and most importantly bring the cost of doing business here to the absolute minimum.... Or is she right, that such a way of life is only enjoyed on a larger parcel. Am looking forward to all replies that put forth good ideas(and side with me). By the way, I would gladly move to another property, I have lived on two farms and worked for three others, but am almost looking forward to the challenge. Thanks Ed

-- Edward G. Weaver (edzreal@postmaster.co.uk), September 30, 2000

Answers

Hmmmm, there are so many definitions of homesteading' in use today that the question "Can one homestead in the suburbs" is almost meaningless without knowing _your_ definition. However, to come closer to leading you to an answer, here are some random thoughts.

First, _you_ and your family need to decide what you are looking for in life. If your answer is total self-sufficiency, then I highly doubt you can do it on 0.7 acres or sneak past zoning laws either one. If you want to raise all of your own food, it depends on what you want to eat and how you define raising food.' You could probably nearly survive on sprouts and windowsill-raised greens, but some would consider sprouts a way of preparing seeds, rather than raising a crop--and the US government says that's the case, if that matters to anybody.

You could put quite a few dwarf or pole fruit trees and bush fruits on 0.7 acres and raise vegetables between and under them. Add a few rabbits in the garage and maybe some hens (roosters would bother the neighbors for sure) and you are a long way past just sprouts and greens. You would, however, have to buy the bulk of feed for any livestock, thus you would not be self-sufficient, but at least would have a better idea of what you are eating.

There are people who specialize is designing decorative landscaping that is also edible and possibly even organic.' I'm sure there are web sites and books on the subject, but I don't know of any off the top of my head.

Is that homesteading' to you? It shouldn't matter to you much if it is to anybody else.

It's unlikely that you would be energy independent and although you can stick solar cells in the city as well as in the country, it wouldn't make financial sense to do so at this time. Having a wood lot for heating is also out of the question, but if you have or can readily add a woodstove, you can heat with scrap wood that is easy to find most places, such as pallets. Unless you have a truck or van though you might spend as much gas money hauling them home a few at a time as you save in fuel.

Perhaps you would be better off rethinking your question to ask specific things like "Can we grow all of our food on a 0.7 acre suburban lot?" Or "How can we raise meat with our zoning laws?" and other such topics.

I also have to ask: Why? If homesteading,' by most popular definitions, is what you want, then perhaps you should be looking for a way out of the suburbs. If your goal is to cut your budget enough to build up a grubstake then that again is a different question.

==>paul

-- paul (p@ledgewood-consulting.com), September 30, 2000.

There are people who live on 100 acres of land and drive $40K vehicles into the city every day so that they can make alot of money and perhaps, someday, pay what they owe everyone. There are people who live in the city or suburbs with teeny slivers of "land' who deeply appreciate every speck of dirt that they own, and are blissfully happy to "make do" because it is a lifestyle chosen rather than one to put up with. We "homesteaded in the suburbs" for nearly 30 years and yet, we wanted real land to call our own...our half acre was not sufficient for us..not because it is impossible to work such a small piece of land, but because we NEEDED to be able to sit on our porch at the end of the day and hear and see nothing but our own land. So now we have it, and are totally content. Sure, you can homestead anywhere..you are only limited by your ingenuity and zoning laws! The only advantage to land is that it affords one the enormous gratification of vitually unlimited homesteading. So, I agree with both of you. You CAN homestead in the burbs, yet not totally so.....God bless.

-- Lesley (martchas@gateway.net), September 30, 2000.

As has been stated on the forum and by JD many times there are many definations for homesteading. Can you homestead on .7 acres in a suburban setting? Depends on your defination. But in many ways I think the answer could be yes. Some books I know of which may be of use 1. "the Have More Plan" many of the things in this classic would work on .7 acres. 2. "The Self-Sufficient Suburban Garden" is a good one and also includes some on fish and animals as well. 3. "Two Acre Eden". I really think in terms of food depending on your neighbors and zoneing .7 acres when working with a good plan and a lot of luck that amount of land could really produce a lot. This would also depend a lot on where you are and the weather you have. gail

-- gail missouri ozarks (gef123@hotmail.com), September 30, 2000.

What about using other land that may not be yours, but available? Community gardens can get some of the seasonal stuff off your land and leave room for permanent plantings. Of course the other options could be joining a CSA (many appreciate members who help out). As said above homesteading has many definitions each of them personal. "Do what you can with what you have" is my motto.

-- Terri (terri@tallships.ca), October 01, 2000.

You appear to be in the United Kingdom from your e-mail address, so much of what is done in the U.S. may not be applicable.

I doubt anyone can be 100% self-sufficient, even a hermit up in a cabin in the woods. Henry Thoreau survived by being a frequent dinner guest at friends. The American Amish shop at stores for some clothing, staples and repair parts.

Can you build or have access to a building of maybe 20'x20'? That would allow you to raise at least batches of rabbits and broiler chickens (let the broilers free-range under the rabbit cages), perhaps even pigeons for squab. You already have ducks. You said you garden so you know even a modest garden can supply a sizeable amount of fresh vegetables and those for canning, plus some feed for critters. As mentioned, you don't need a rooster to get eggs. You also have dwarf fruit tree so you seem to already be on your way.

It is not only zoning, but the attitude of neighbors. Your zoning office may go by the complaint system to where they don't go out looking for violations unless they are brought to their attention. Giving them the occasion dozen eggs or a freshly processed rabbit or chicken might go a long ways towards their overlooking slight problems, such as an occasion odor. If they garden, sharing the rabbit manure and chicken litter may also help.

If you largely restrict yourself to rabbits, chickens and ducks you can supply much of your meat supply. While trying to raise beef or pork wouldn't be practical, these can be bought at livestock auctions and custom processed, at least in the U.S.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), October 01, 2000.

I have a couple of resources for you that would directly apply to your question. One is a book, The Self-Sufficient Gardener by John Seymour. It is directed at getting the most you can out of a small plot and includes chickens, ducks, geese, pigeons, rabbits and bees. It covers herbs, and has recipies and information on dehydrating, including building a dehydrator. It talks about building and using a greenhouse, deep beds, and cold frames, putting in and growing various tree, vine, and bush fruits, and storing and using produce over the winter.

One of the features I most appreciate is the chapter called Gardening Through the Year. This shows an attractive and practical garden layout, including animals, with a view for each season. In the text, the author talks about what needs to be done each season to use what was produced and prepare for the next season. It also covers placement of rotated beds as well as perennials. I can't recommend the book highly enough.

This book is out of print, but that's not so bad. I used bibliofind.com to find a beautiful, ex-library copy for $12.95. Another highly-recommended booksearch engine is bookfinder.com. Both of these provide instant results, which is good because I am not the patient type.

OK, so enough already about the book. The other resource is less detailed, but quite inspiring. It is a web site called Experiments in Sustainable Urban Living, and the url is http://www.rdrop.com/users/krishna/

It is very cool. Check it out, but you still should really get the book.

Anyway, have fun with this! Laura

-- Laura Jensen (lrjensen@nwlink.com), October 01, 2000.

I think homesteading is all in the attitude. A while back, there was an aritcle in Countryside that listed what a homesteader was. I sat back and said, "I'm a homesteader." However, I know I am not self- sufficient to the point of many on this site. Wish I remembered which issue that article was in. Anyone know?

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), October 01, 2000.

I'm a homesteader, from our private letters and the tone and wording of you letters, so are you. It took me years to decide what I was--citizen, soldier, christian,criminal,patriot, farmer, council, mechanic, inventor, or my true love of being a gardner. "Homesteader" covered all the above and more ! It is none of the above, yet is all of the above--it is a mindset more than a title !

You ask can I do it on .7 acres ? My friend, you can be a homesteader in a rented apartment in New York City, using 5 gallon buckets and a grow light.

I think there are ways of identifying a homesteader--Did he believe in something ? Did he activively seek to better the world in some way ? Mostly it is a strong sense of manners and fairness to be in this world and try to leave it undamaged by our presence. I hope it said of me that I took as little as possible and gave as much as possible !

Are you a homesteader ? I'd bet you were the first time you considered it !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), October 01, 2000.

Edward: Joel stated it perfectly. It isn't the size of the land you live on, but what you do on it, and your attitude that matter. In the book "The Have More Plan" there are instructions for raising broiler chickens in your garage, so you can do it anywhere. Just work on it gradually, add to the edible landscape, put in few more dwarf fruit trees, some berry plants or bushes, and go from there. Good luck, and welcome to the forum! Jan

-- Jan in Colorado (Janice12@aol.com), October 01, 2000.

Homesteading in the suburbs (or in the heart of the city, for that matter) is, IMHO, probably the best and the worst of both worlds.

As for the best, you get all the cultural access and community spirit that country living tends to isolate your from, while growing your own foods, and enjoying the fruits of living lightly on the earth while having easy access to employment and well supported social services and infra-structure.

On the other hand, there's smog, light pollution, traffic, unappreciative neighbors and authorities, and the inconvenience of trying to make it work on a small plot, plus the hell of trying to prioritize just what will and what will not be sacrificed to make it work, although this last can apply to both situations.

I wish you the best and would only advise that whatever you decide that it doesn't alienate the wishes and needs of your respective mates. After all, no matter where you are, homesteading by yourself is nowhere near as much fun as spending a good life with a great partner.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), October 01, 2000.

This may seem silly, but to me it was important to be able to hang my laundry out. When we lived in the 'burbs, well, it just wasn't done. I guess the neighbors didn't want to see it from the decks of their mansions. In some places, it was against the law! We had 3/4 of an acre, bordered with trees, but it still bothered them. They didn't like our nice large shed at the back(once a chicken coop), some didn't like the vegetable garden or our wood burning furnace.... We left there 4 years ago and it has been the best move we've ever made. Ah, freedom! I'll never go back! But really, in answer to your question, it sounds like you are "homesteading" where you are and if you are content, continue with it. But essentially I side with Mrs. Weaver!

-- Jean (schiszik@tbcnet.com), October 01, 2000.

First of all Thank you one and all! To clarify one point, I live in Niagara County, NY 10 minutes from "Da Falls". Postmaster is an English e-mail service that is a decent alternative to hotmail as it is also free. Our point of contention was whether or not the feeling of homesteading with our heads held high, could be attained or was it all pretend here in the burbs. Mrs. W concedes that if your heart is in it, then it's so. Whether or not we stay is up in the air but we have decided we'll go forward until the Lord presents oppurtunities elsewhere. Again thanks to all, I printed this page for reference to the links and books, and snipets of wisdom.....Joel always a pleasure.

-- Ed Weaver (edzreal@postmaster.co.uk), October 01, 2000.

Great answer Joel,Edward there is a good book were they tried to grow most of there food in berkley, calif [ I will have to drive over there and see if its still there]Gerbil told me about the book [ thanks gerbil]It Is called the Integral urban house by the Farallones Institute Its out of print but I got my copy on e bay for 5 dollars. You would be amazed what you can do in town.Goats love mulberry leafs.And raised beds can grow a lot of veggies.And the portable chicken coop in countryside works great for chickens, and the book chicken tractor gives good yeilds for fresh chickens in small areas.

-- kathy h (saddlebronc@msn.com), October 01, 2000.

Joel, you ARE a treasure!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), October 01, 2000.

Edward, Look on page 26 of Countryside 84/5 Sept/Oct 2000. Also we live kinda in the burbs of a small city on 1.2 acre with septic system (further reducing useable ground). This season, we covered about 70% of our food bill with the garden. I have experimented with aquaponics in a 7 ft portable pool, converted part of my sunroom into a small greenhouse, using mirrors to achieve full coverage sunlight, am considering a small rabbitry sometime and have a 3 tree plum "orchard" for country wine (hope to get 3 apple trees going too). As I was posting this, my wife came in with a book she bought at a yard sale, "Square Foot Gardening" showing how to utilize what you have. There is also a website sponsored by Vancouver in Canada , I believe its www.cityfarmer.com about rooftop and urban gardens. So the answer to your question is Yes, you can homestead in the ' burbs. I forgot to add, another experiment I am working on , aero/thermal electric generator. HAVE FUN AND GO FOR IT. You'll have your employer mad that he can't intimidate you in just a season or two. Remember, think outside the box, just like a child. The worst hobble we as adults experience is "logical, socially correct " thinking.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), October 07, 2000.

The book square foot gardening also has a site at www.squarefootgardening.com

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), October 07, 2000.