A lady I know and I were talking tonite about goats. She has two, brother and sister, pygmy goats, about 4 1/2mo old. She just got her buck back from the vet after surgery etc. The buck had kidney stones. She suspects some kind of dietary deficiency as the cause and has just switched their feed to Purina Goat Chow which they seem to really like. Any thots?

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), September 23, 2000

Answers

Bucks & wethers especially, need very little, if any grain, unless it's breeding season. I usually give more then to keep their weight up. Just a small amount each day for either. It's more of a treat than a necessity. I have read that too much grain causes the stones.

-- Wendy (weiskids@yahoo.com), September 23, 2000.

Purina Goat Chow does contain ammonium chloride to deacidify the contents of the bladder making stone formation impossible. However, there has been some question lately if Purina is really putting this in or putting in enough, or perhaps not mixing the contents enough to disperse this. There is a talk of bags being tested that showed little to no ammonium chloride and folks losing wethers because of this. I would to be on the safe side, add my own ammonium chloride to the feed of the buck (it won't hurt does) at 1 teaspoon per head per day. You also can't feed to much AC, if Purina does have the correct dosage in, 1 more teaspoon will hurt nothing. You can order your own AC from pipevet.com a 5 pound bag which will last a life time with just one pygmy, is less than 5$. Did the vet just cut the process off or did he have the peeing like a doe surgery. The later of course makes him incapable of breeding his sister, if he hasn't already, the former still makes him capable, make sure she understands this and perhaps has him castrated. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), September 25, 2000.

Hey from NM. I've heard that a diet high in calcium can cause this (and urinary calculi) and too much alfalfa can be one of the culprits. If he's getting alfalfa, you might give him a more bland diet of grass or oat hay. As for grain, I agree that they don't really need that much grain. I give all mine just a small handful of cobb mixed with a 'toss' of whole oats. I do it just for the morning feeding just to give them something different, but mostly they get a lot of oat hay with a little alfalfa thrown in (probably one flake divided between 3 goats). I have Angoras, and am aware that good nutrition makes good hair. However, good nutrition can be pretty simple. I'm not into feeding the pre-processed feeds because you never know what's in those little pellets. I do like whole oats for goats and for horses; at least you know what's in it: just oats!

Another thing, I've also heard that castrating goats too early can cause urinary calculi, so I'm wondering if the kidney stone development would be related? I've heard people who are keeping wethers would rather wait to castrate between 6 mos to almost 1 year old. Would anyone else have any thoughts on that?

Good luck! debra in nm

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), September 25, 2000.

Debra, I have heard that about alfalfa also, I Have heard that arabian geldings dont do well on alfalfa because of stones to.

-- kathy h (saddlebronc@msn.com), September 26, 2000.

Good to know that about horses, too, Kathy h. I never had the problem with my arab geldings while living in Texas, we were too terrified of blister beetles to feed alfalfa! They all did fine on coastal bermuda hay. I did feed alfalfa to horses here in NM, but again, I mixed it with grass or oat hay; it was also a much better quality hay from NM or Colorado, never had blister bugs in it like the hay from Oklahoma or Arkansas. Alfalfa is way overrated, I think, it's like feeding candy bars to your animals!

In regards to feeding any animal (goats, horses, chickens, etc), in my personal opinion, I look at it like feeding a growing child: would you rather feed meusli or cocoa puffs?? If you drop a whole oat on the ground, it will sprout; it's still alive. Pellets don't sprout. Crimped oats don't sprout. If you take a handfull of pelleted feed and get it wet, it turns to glue in your hands, like it will in an animal's stomach (or stomachs). While it's a good, highly condensed feed, it's meant to supplement... and never should be fed without roughage available. Oh well, I digress... just one of my soapboxes. The subject was kidney stones! debra in nm

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), September 26, 2000.

I have been told that putting vinegar in the water will help prevent stones any thoughts about this. gail

-- gail missouri ozarks (gef123@hotmail.com), September 28, 2000.

A horseman I knew used vinegar in his trough. He said it helped eliminate acid in their systems and he felt it prevented a lot of potential ailments.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), September 29, 2000.