I was remembering the other day, how when I first started homesteading, I wanted to grow everything myself, so that I could be 'self sufficient'. I wrote down a detailed list of all the things we used, needed, or ate, and how I planned to raise or produce them. Rice was a problem for our climate, as was butter, since I didn't want to have a dairy cow, just goats. I planned to make my own leather out of our own goat or deer hides, home tanned. To make a long story short, it didn't take too long for reality to set in, and although we do produce much of what we need, there's a lot we could produce, but don't, such as wheat, oats, and chicken eggs, to name just a few. But I've noticed that a lot of other homesteaders and countrysiders seem to feel the same way that I used to, as if it's a failing not to produce everything you eat or use. My question is, why? If you used to feel that way, and don't now, what changed?

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), September 06, 2000

Answers

Rebekah -- No, I don't feel that way. A lot of what I produce rather than buy is because of my son's allergies -- I've found that a lot of things we thought he was allergic to, he's not -- it's just the chemicals, additives and preservatives used in the manufacture of the commercial version of the product that he's allergic to. I make alot of things homemade because otherwise he wouldn't be able to eat/use them.

I want to be as independent as possible, because I think that anyone who CAN'T produce for themselves is doomed to reliance on the system, and I don't want that for my family. I want to be able to do these things -- once I learn how to do them, and get comfortable with the doing, I often file it away and don't go any further. It's not necessary to have a cow to get milk -- but if it were, I'd sure know how to milk it!!!

-- Tracy (trimmer@westzone.com), September 06, 2000.

I don't think it is a failing not to produce everything myself. I do think however that when I set a goal, that I continue to take steps toward the achieving of that goal. That doesn't mean I ever expect to be the perfect homesteader. Far from it, but I will continue to add more and more things to the list of what I am already doing. Homesteading, like life, is a process. You take three steps forward and two steps back until you die. This is a good thing, because if I ever completely reached the dream I would get bored with it fast. As I do reach goals I will always be setting new ones.

For me it is important for my family to become as self-sufficient as possible. In order for that to happen there will probably be some things I decide I really don't need to grow. Maybe rice will be one of them, so maybe I'll berter for it. Maybe my cabinets at home will be so full I just won't care if I have rice or not. Some things I can never grow, sugar for one. The point is not to kill myself producing every last possible thing I might use. The goal is to give my family a healthy diet of home grown food, produce an income from our farm for the few things we can't provide or don't want to provide for ourselves and, live in peace without intrusion by the powers that be.

I want the kind of life my ancestors had. One where we work hard all day, love one another all the time and fall in bed to sleep a restful night until the Lord takes me home. This to me is the meaning of self- sufficiency. This doesn't mean I want to transport myself back to the past. What I want is to take the good things from the past and bring them into the future, where I can share them with others and live what I believe to make a better world. I spend a lot of time on this forum talking about what I'd like to see change in America, but what is sometimes hard to portray here is my genuine belief that the first place you start to make America better is in your own community. Part of healing this ill nation is the way we as individuals behave toward our fellow man. What i'd really like tosee in America is a grassroots movement of community, and love for your fellow man. If each and every American were to live a wholesome life and treat everyone with respect the necessity for laws would become unnecessary. I believe that this won't happen until heaven, but I like to live like it could today.

Little bit farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), September 06, 2000.

Beautifully said, Little Bit.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), September 06, 2000.

Rebekah, I would venture to say that a lot of us came down this country path out of fear about Y2k that didn't happen. Along the way, some may have remembered days of youth gone by, some realized they could do more than they expected, but all of us realize it is a comfortable way of life. I no longer consider it "self suficiency", I just think of it as living by my own two hands, standing on my own two feet , with my family by my side and good friends just a web link away. In other words, country living in the 21st century. By the way, if you really want to try out your "Y2K skills" you may get the chance if fuel prices reach $2.50 a gal as some are predicting. I guess really what "self sufficiency " is using resorces that are available to your maximum advantage. When I lived in an apartment I had a generator and kerosene heater. When the ice storms hit I had the only apt with light, heat and hot water. My lifestyle now is just an extension of that mind set. The best part of it, is that there is always something new to learn.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), September 06, 2000.

Rebekah-I think it is nearly impossible to be TOTALLY self-sufficient in this day and age and perhaps not even practical. For example: If you own property you will pay taxes and the money has to come from somewhere. Even if you sell something you produce to raise the money, you are still depending upon someone to buy it.

From the practical standpoint: One could cut their firewood with a cross cut saw and haul it to the shed with horses or in a cart but it is much more practical to cut it with a chainsaw and haul it in the truck. One could do all their cooking and canning on a wood stove but it is much more practical (and comfortable)to do it on the propane range in the middle of the summer.

I guess what I am trying to say is that each must find their own level that they can live with. I am sure most of us wish we could be more self-sufficient but the most important thing is what is satisfactory to you. We each keep plugging along, doing the best we can, and hoping for the best. Homesteading is a state of mind as well as way of life.

Besides that-I flat refuse to give up coffee! Coffee beans wouldn't grow here and ground up chickory roots just don't get it!

-- Marci (ajourend@libby.org), September 06, 2000.

If you read my post about "what to call this lifestyle?" you know I'm aiming for as direct and deliberate of way of living as I can find. It's an experiment that won't last forever, but rather than start with what modern society says we need and paring away, I'll start are rock-bottom survival and add to it.

Anyhow, self-sufficiency can't be taken to a point where one person, or especially a family, is totally independent of anything not contained within their property line. I see no reason to try for that level of independence. It's never been done before. All primitive peoples the world over had tribes to share duties with and in almost every case traded with other tribes.

What I would encourage people to learn is the difference between what is truly needed and what is when it comes down to it, a luxury. Once you determine that, figure out the most direct, simplest, way to obtain what is truly needed and the luxuries you do not want to be without. Buying a large sack of rice is simple and economical and most likely more direct than having your own rice patty put in. (I wish we could get seed for upland rice though.)

-- paul (p@ledgewood-consulting.com), September 06, 2000.

I think you are all overlooking a very important point:

Yes, not creating everything you need makes you dependent upon the system for those things, but this system is called the community; I can't do everything for myself, but I can do some things you can't do and vice versa. In almost all "homesteading" lifestyles, whether it be an African village, a stone age tribe, or Little House on the Prairie, the emphasis was NEVER to do it all yourself, but to do the best with what Whomever gave you and help others with your excess, as they will you. In all villages there is only one Shaman, one chief, one person or small group to fullfill any important need such as pottery making or basket weaving or hunting. All shared in the prosperity of the group, and contributed to it in their own way.

Only hermits, wandering prophets or mountainmen, and the occasional extreme-frontier family, made due on their own without any outside help whatsoever, and few relished the idea. Remember, exile used to be a punishment worse than death; in many climates and countries,it was/is essentially the equivilent of death, as the individual was/is unable to fend entirely for his/herself and everybody knew it.

Relish your interdependence and use it to grow, spiritually and emotionally. Use your excess squash to trade for someone's excess wool. Work part time to pay your taxes and you won't have to face only the choices of expensive private schools and homeschooling, when you may have the resources for neither. Pay your (moderate, if you consider other countries) income tax and rest assured that our country will be protected against foreign and domestic attacks to the best of our troops abilities and that you will not have to bust up your new alignment on nothing but unpaved roads as far as you can travel. And pay your phone bill and revel in the cozy firelight of the Countryside forum and everything else that the internet can bring.

Remember, even the tree of life is connected top and bottom, and (if you're Christian) even the Father has the Son and the Holy Ghost for company (and to due their fair share of what needs doing, each to their own capacity).

As for myself, I will do what I can and welcome the community spirit that comes from needing help and giving help, freely and with love. Besides, I can't yell loud enough for all y'all to hear me without this here computer, and I still can't for the life of me figger out how to put together a goll darn silicon chip from scratch, mineral mining being the pain in the butt that it is, and all.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), September 06, 2000.

While I find it admirable and even exciting to live totally off the land, I also find it impossible for wife and I in these days. We just "aint" no spring chickens anymore and need medical attention every so often. Medical problems that calls for modern day drugs are a necessity. Herbal treatments/cures sounds good and probably are to a certain extent but with life threatning ailments it's commercial drug time! I also find it difficult if not impossible to produce everything else that we need. Even if we were younger and in top physical shape it'd still be impossible to be totally self sufficient. I wouldn't want to go back to those "good ole days" when life was simpler. In those "simple" lifestyles people were sick more often without medical services and drugs that the "civilized" world had. It still holds true today! I love the idea of not being dependent on anybody else but I've faced facts and realized I cant' live that way. Not knockin anybody else for wantin to live like that, at all. I applaud your drive and hope all that tries succeedes with that endeavor. Matt. 24:44

-- hoot (hoot@pcinetwork.com), September 06, 2000.

Rebekah, I know what you're saying! I think what we start out with are ideals. Those ideals become tempered by reality and the fact that we DO have a choice certainly makes it easier to let up on ourselves a bit.

As Soni mentioned, there IS community and the old exile principle certainly didn't provide conditions under which a person could flourish, even if you have read the Jean Auel series, you remember the heroine pining for communication!

I have always thought that self sufficiency wasn't truly achievable. Self-Reliance seems much more doable. It takes the onus off of you having to create your own silica chips and all.

But to be honest, I think the reason it isn't as strong of a drive after a while is the fact that you just plain get tired. And since we don't HAVE to do it all ourselves, we can cut ourselves a little slack and sleep every now and again.

-- Doreen (liberty546@hotmail.com), September 06, 2000.

Amen Little Bit! Re: your "What i'd really like tosee in America is a grassroots movement of community, and love for your fellow man. If each and every American were to live a wholesome life and treat everyone with respect the necessity for laws would become unnecessary."

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), September 07, 2000.

Take what Rebekah and Little Bit said and put them together. The only way they used to be self-sufficient was by helping and giving to each other. I have what you need and you have what I need. No money needed. I believe with all my heart we should help others, expecting nothing in return, and what goes around comes around. I don't want anyone who visits to leave without some sausage or tomoatoes or something. And nobody just trades anymore, in order to trade you have to have extra from what you need. We trade as much as we can but allot of people just WANT money and we really can't get around that. Like I said before, we are the only ones in our whole area with these IDEAS in our heads!

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), September 07, 2000.

God didn't make people to be solitary, we are social and are to have fellowship with others and especially with Him. He also knows what's best. To everything there is a season. A time to dream, plan, do, reflect, always learning from our mistakes. As Doreen said we get tired, we also are affected by life and family. I could really take the self-sufficiency thing quite far but, my husband doesn't see it that way. If I insist on my own way, God won't honor my requests.

Something to think about is; what is your motivation for being self- reliant? Is it so you don't have to spend as much money, are angry or hurt and don't want to be around others-turning your back on society, or do you really know inside that it's the best way? If you know it's the best way, are you strong enough to bend and not let your pride get in the way. Are you able to ask for help? Can you use plan B or even C?

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), September 07, 2000.

Our motivation is simple. The more we can do for ourselves with our own hands, the less we have to work outside the farm making money for other people. I would rather go help the neighbor for free than have to go to work. I belive it's either in you or it's not, living like this, not caring about new cars or new clothes. We know those things are just things. Choices, a new SUV costs more than our whole farm, and the SUV will rust eventually and be gone. I don't want to work 8 to 5 untill I am 65 or even 75 just to eat and take a hot shower. People call me nuts that I can stay up here all day and not get bored out of my mind. Bored? Never! I love doing everything I do. I am happy as can be sitting and digging in the dirt and eating my PBJ's. We don't take what we have for granted, we are thankful for all we have, and don't make ourselves sick over what we don't. Everyone I know here makes more money than we do by far, but they don't have near as much as we do. If we did not have to work outside the farm at all we could volunteer allot more of our time in helping others, as we are supposed to do. That's what we want.

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), September 08, 2000.

The closest I came to being "self sufficient & self efficient" was over 30 years ago. that is when I started homesteading but we did not call it that, we just lived cheap in a cabin I built from recycled materials, slabs from a saw mill. I made hinges from leatheer straps, collected rain water in an old whiskey barrel. We grew some of our basic food, potatoes, carotts, onions cabbage, we did not have car or truck, we walked. I ran a trap line in the winter, trot line in the summer and hunted all year. Still we had to have cash for shot shells, kerosene for lamps, gas for the chainsaw, salt, sugar, coffee & tea, tobacco new boots or jeans now and then. The coon & fox pelts took care of our cash needs, we kept to ourselves and life was simple. We lived in the woods on free land and paid no taxes, property or income.

-- Hendo (redgate@echoweb.net), September 08, 2000.

My motivation is similar to Cindy in KY. I don't see any reason why we should spend all the best hours of each day working outside the home for someone else, just so we can pay all the bills associated with living in a mortgaged house. It leaves us with almonst no time for the things we would like to do -- which, if we had time to do them, could cut our cost of living and help break this Catch-22 cycle we are in. Because we are working for someone else, we don't have time to raise and put up most of our food, which means we end up buying less-healthy food from the store -- and on it goes. (I did finally figure out how to make really GOOD yogurt -- with half and half! We just had some with wild blueberries -- picked on an island from our canoe -- yum!)

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 08, 2000.

Kathaleen, where did you get the half & half?

-- Hendo (redgate@echoweb.net), September 08, 2000.

Hendo, the half and half comes from the store -- we don't have any milking animals right now. Why?

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 09, 2000.