I have 14 goats of mixed heritage. I wormed them with boluses in April. Since then I have lost 2 billy babies. They obviously have a severe case of worms. One baby has bottle jaw. Today, I used Ivomec Pour On for cattle but cut the dose to the weight of the goats. The person at the feed store said I should double the dose for goats.( The billy really did a number on me!!! 1/2 Boer, raised around people.GOD, it hurts. I have a HUGE bruise and cut on my leg.) I only dosed as the package stated for cattle. Should I have doubled the dose or should I worm them again in a couple of weeks? Any info is apreciated. The only other livestock in the pasture is a donkey, which I also wormed, with paste wormer. They have 12 acres of lush pasture to themselves. Should I rotate? What should I do?

-- Terri Perry (tperry@stargate.net), August 30, 2000

Answers

I ended up worming 11 times in 5 or 6 weeks(sheep) they had bottle jaw, I wormed before that every month. My sheep built up an immunity to 2 classes or wormers I was using, I double and triple and wormed three days in a roll. Finally got into a third class of wormer and it worked. The bottle jaw took 2 months to get rid of for me. Call Pipestone Vet. Clinic in Minn. for help507-825-4211, talk only to a vet. They tend to give a question to tech., and the vet is who helped me out alot. They have a toll free no., I can't find off hand. I do buy my wormers and other stuff for sheep from them. They also deal with goats. Good Luck, I know what you are going through. Debbie

-- Debbie Wolcott (bwolcott@cwis.net), August 31, 2000.

Take a fresh fecal sample from a variety of your herd. For example,a few berries from the youngest kids, older kids, adults, wormy looking goats, and ones that look fine. They need to be fresh- dropped while you were there to catch them! After a fecal sample has been done (by your vet), he or she will be able to tell you what wormer will be best for the worms that they have. There is no sense in using a wormer over and over if it is for flatworms and your goats have roundworms! Also, if that buck is mean, get rid of him. He might REALLY hurt you the next time, there is no sense in keeping an animal you can't trust.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@transport.com), August 31, 2000.

Tramisol sheep oblets are not given to goats. All cattle wormers are dosed at 2 times the amount for cattle, and are given ORALLY! So say you are using Valbazen, on the bottle it says 4cc per 100 pounds, you would give your goat 8cc per 100 pounds. If she ways 87 pounds, I still give the whole 8cc, and don't try to strain my mind with 10ths of cc etc. :) Besides Valbazen we also use on does not in milk Ivermectin Cattle 1% Injectable at 2cc per 100 pounds given orally. Another new class of wormer is Cydectin which is an pouron but is given orally at 1cc per 25 pounds. Levamisole and Leviosle both come in an injectable which you can give orally at double the dosage for cattle. I stick with Valbazen for all stock, giving does their dose before being bred, and then not worming with anything the first 45 days of pregnancy. I like Valbabzen because it is broad spectrum and works. Ivermectin is less effective here but that is because of years of use and under use and giving injectably rather than orally. Goats have much faster metabolisims than sheep or goats, so giving it orally will dramatically slow down the rate of absorption, leaving the drug in their system longer to do a better job. We will be using Cydectin this Winter as the does start to kid. You shouldn't do much switching around of wormers, use one and use it until you don't see it working for you, then switch to another class of wormer. I start with Valbazen on my kids, then switch to Ivermectin as dry does. Cydectin will be taking the place of the Ivermectin here for me. saanendoah.com has some great articles on goats and parasites, it also teaches you how to do your own fecals, and with 14 goats it could really save you some money. Don't go buying some expensive microscope a cheapo from Toys R Us will be fine as long as it has it's own light source, no reflector types! Good luck with your does, by the time they exhibit signs of worms, anemic pale gums and eyelids, diarrhea, bottle jaw, they will need lots of tender loving care to make it back to the road of good health, good feed, no stress, and perhaps a blood builder like Red Cell. Make sure your minerals and feed contain adequate amounts of copper for your area, copper diffiency is also covered on saanendoah.com, and can lead to animals with weakend immune systems, that have more than normal trouble with worms and cocci. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), August 31, 2000.

I agree with Vicky, get your samples done. Although I did quite a few samples with the vet and they were keeping me in the same classes of wormers. It is interesting what Vicky said about the injectable ivomectin, I always wonder which to do (done both ways). Search Maryland Small Ruminant page, they have alot on parasites, doing your own fecals and many other health issues. I have spent days on their site and have learned alot. I am trying to do my own now just mixing up what is air and feed in the samples and not eggs. A professor at OK. St. University is giving me a name of the book they use to teach parasitetology(sp). I heard great things about Red Cell but can not use with sheep because of the cooper. Good Luck

-- Debbie Wolcott (bwolcott@cwis.net), August 31, 2000.

Could you post the Maryland Small Ruminate page for us? Thanks, like to have as much information to give out as I can, especially from different parts of the country! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), August 31, 2000.

Terri, listen to Vicki, she really, really helped me with my goats and the wormers. My vet had my goats on all the WRONG ones and not enough of it at that, and giving it to them wrong. I was so frustrated, I though I was going to kill my goats with all the wormers. Now they are doing great, even though here in Ky worms are bad. Vicki, you don't worm till 45 days after bred? I better hit mine again before we breed them then. Sorry you lost the little babies, Terri

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), September 01, 2000.

Yes Cindy. My does are bred in July/August, the end of June all does receive worming, one of the maintenence times I don't fecal. They also receive their CD&T booster. With the heat of August and September our worm burdens are extremely low, in fact in our older does, we rarely even need to worm them at all until they kid, in which we worm that day also, no matter what, not waiting for a fecal, since we know that their worm burden will increase dramatically from overwintered arrested larve in their system, being stimulated by the hormones of labor and delivery. I do randomly fecal sample at 50 and 100 days pregnant, and would worm if the need arose. A great trick for you with freezes is to worm the first really good freeze, so the worm eggs and larve that does come out alive, is killed onto frozen ground, course don't let them just poop in the barn that 12 hours after worming or you will just overwinter the worms in your barns. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), September 01, 2000.

The advice to have fecals done by your vet is certainly good advice BUT while you are waiting for that,get those goats wormed now.I would suggest Ivomec Double Impact.No 1 it works.No 2 you inject it under the skin so you know each goat got the correct amount.No 3 it is usually available locally from your feed store. We were worming with chemical wormers 6 times a year!No freezing weather to speak of.Now we use Ivomec or Valbazen twice a year and use the herbal wormer from Hoegger Supply every week.I Tbsp in each goats feed pan every Saturday.So far it seems to be working and is oh so easy.

-- JT Sessions (gone2seed@email.com), September 01, 2000.

I am trying to figure out the www. site for Maryland Small Rumninant site, all I did was type their site name. They have alot of information on goats and sheep, parasites for both the worming problems, health problems. I learned alot on that site, plus they have links to different vet schools for more info. Debbie Anyone with goats or sheep should be on the net their is alot of good information on parasite out there. I am going to do my own this week (sample that is).

-- Debbie Wolcott (bwolcott@cwis.net), September 04, 2000.

The Maryland small rum. web address is http://www.intercom.net/user/sschoen/sheep.html

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 04, 2000.

The web you are looking for is http://www.intercom.net/user/sschoen/sheep.html

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 04, 2000.