I figured I'd post this to a new thread, as it might be of interest to some. This is from another recent thread by me, which went totally tangential:

PMK PRINTS: This weekend, I took an old batch of PMK (about 10 months old), and diluted it about 1:10 (ten), and I developed some prints in it. It gave a wonderful tonality I've never got in a print before, and, for the FRIST PRINT ONLY, it gave that wonderful puke green I love so much. But after that, the stain got much less on the second print, and was gone by the third print (I used Kodalk for an afterbath). However, the tonality (notably in skin tones, which were quite...creamy) remained through the rest of my session, which lasted about three hours. But as per the oxidation (and the one-shot nature) of PMK, the developer was brown and sludge by then...and my times increased.

I think my results warrant trying to find a way to use pyro (maybe not PMK) as a print developer. But not at the price of 1/3 of a bottle of PMK per print!!!

Any ideas on how to make this a little more economical? One-shotting and mixing per print seems so tedious...but maybe necessary...

-- shawn (shawngibson_prophoto@yahoo.com), August 21, 2000

Answers

Perhaps by mixing the chemicals yourself. Your experiment suggests some interesting possibilities -- e.g., how about rodinal or acufine - - perhaps mixed with a paper developer.

-- Christopher Hargens (ldmr@cruzio.com), August 21, 2000.

I've been assuming people would know why I want pyro prints, but maybe I should say: I want an archival green look, like I get with pyro. I get the stain, and still can tone in selenium with no major changes to that tone, unlike Berg's etc.

Otherwise, I think such a venture would be silly...:-)

-- shawn (shawngibson_prophoto@yahoo.com), August 22, 2000.

Get a catalogue from Photographer's Formulary and some bulk chemicals, and experiment. Pyro is notorious for oxidizing quickly, but you should be able to make a developing bath that can last for a couple of hours, I would think.

Incidentally, 10-month-old PMK stock solutions are far from garbage. The stuff lasts for years with reasonable storage.

-- Jim MacKenzie (photojim@yahoo.com), August 22, 2000.

Thanks Jim (and Christopher). I have the PF catalogue. And I've been re-studying The Negative, and The Book of Pyro. I think it's about time to REALLY learn what all this chemistry is doing. I know what I'm looking for, and in theory, a good basic knowledge of the chemicals involved, in both printing and negative developing, should help a lot.

Christopher--I tried Dektol and pyro a while ago. Nothing. I think I'm going to need a fairly strong pyrogallol content, since it seems otherwise the Metol does all the work.

INCIDENTALLY, I think it is important to note the staining and fundamental predictability of pyro formulas is less relavent with a print-formula, since you are not dealing with a one-time, do-or-die development as you are with a negative. THAT could lead to some more- free formulations. For example, a very strong staining formula at the expense of some predictability might be something worth considering and trying to acheive--if the pyro gets funky, so what, just re-print it with another batch (one-shotting is starting to look like the way to go...also knocks out the oxidization principle(?)). I'm thinking long and hard on this one. I want green, archival prints like no one knows. :-)

-- shawn (shawngibson_prophoto@yahoo.com), August 23, 2000.

Shawn, you may want to check with Gordon Hutchings or others regarding the toxicity of PMK used in this way. Its one thing to pour in a liquid solution into a closed tank and then out, with little or no skin contact, but quite something else to let it slosh about in a developing tray, possibly with considerable skin contact, I suspect. Be careful.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), August 23, 2000.

Well, ya gotta die of something!!! just kidding...

Thanks Mani. There is extensive info in G.H.'s book, which I've read a few times. I think the real danger is in drinking it. Touching it is dangerous, but with limited levels one should be OK, that is what it seems to boil down to. I wash my hands while the print is in the fixer, anyways. So I'm only touching pyro for a few moments while moving the print from one bath to the next. I REALLY HOPE that's OK!!!

I used to worry about pyro. But I think it's like any potential toxin, better to state boldly how dangerous it CAN BE, than how often it has been PROVEN SO (I mean, how often it HAS killed)...be smart, and I think you'll be fine.

If it worries anyone, they should definitely wear gloves, and work in a well ventilated area...

-- shawn (shawngibson_prophoto@yahoo.com), August 23, 2000.

Have you tried any amidol formulae? They seem to give very green tones. Amidol is expensive, but nice.

-- Ed Buffaloe (edbuffaloe@unblinkingeye.com), August 23, 2000.

I ordered amidol from PF a while ago (on your recommendation for green prints, I believe). Don't ask what happened to it, before I even got it to the darkroom...ugh. and It was SO expensive I never replaced it. Maybe when I win the lottery Ed. :-)

-- shawn (shawngibson_prophoto@yahoo.com), August 23, 2000.

You say puke green. Is this an olive puke green. If so, perhaps a generous helping of potassium bromide in your developer would do the trick or at least contribute in that direction (also increasing developing time).

-- Christopher Hargens (ldmr@cruzio.com), August 23, 2000.

Shawn, We like you and want to keep you around and healthy for a while, so wear gloves when you develop in Pyro and other toxic chemicals (selenium etc.)! You should be even more careful since you are planning on using fairly strong solutions of pyro to develop prints, which makes it significantly more dangerous than in film developing concentrations. I use the vinyl gloves like food handlers wear. These are looser fitting than surgeons latex gloves and provide a better chemical barrier. You can get them from Calumet or from a medical supply dealer (and, I imagine, restaurant supply stores as well). After five minutes you'll be used to working with them. After an hour you won't even know you have them on. Maybe you won't die right away from using your bare hands, but who needs liver problems or cancer or the myriad other problems you can get from these chemicals? These could seriously affect your quality of life at some point! Play it safe and spring for the gloves. Regards, ;^D)

-- Doremus Scudder (ScudderLandreth@compuserve.com), August 24, 2000.