Someone in a prior post, might have been Sonya, mentioned she at one time sold items through a number of antique malls, but one by one they were closing. Two in town have closed - one twice when someone tried to revive it. Short item in today's paper it is due to on-line auctions, eBay in particular. I had a booth in one antique mall and shut it down after the rental agreement expired since I wasn't selling enough to make the booth rental (and I had two for the price of one). Have pretty well taken all of my items out of a neighbor's consignment shop. And, yes, I sell over eBay, and have done quite well on some items. I found this item interesting in light of the recent posting on Wal-Mart's impact on the local community's small businesses. Apparently now it's now only the local Wal-Mart, but U.S.-wide, and in some cases, world-wide competition through e-business. I buy my office and shipping supplies from www.officesupplies.com (outside Wal-Mart, no local sourse of supply). Very competitive prices and free, next-day shipping. How would a local office supplies outlet compete with that with more and more people acquiring PCs? Your thoughts please.

-- Ken S. (scharabo@aol.com), August 08, 2000

Answers

I rarely go to any stores any more. Why spend the time, gas and aggravation dealing with incompetent store personell when I can get on line, get a better price, better selection, free gifts, etc...... I have, however, avoided ebay, what with the spotlight on them for dishonest sellers. But i don't doubt that the retail store, auction, and even the malls as we know them are going the way of the horse and buggy. I work for a newspaper company, and the chit chat around the office is how long will it be before people can only get their news online..... I personally think that will be a few years, but it's all heading that way......

-- Sue (sulandherb@aol.com), August 08, 2000.

A town that I live by has undergone a transition over the last 20+ years....all the little shops (apparel, stationery, repair, etc) moved away. Instead, over the last oh, 15 years, the town has become a destination antiques area. I wonder about eBay sometimes, as I hope the town (300 antiques shops, bed and breakfasts, etc) continues it's focus. Lots better than industry, and quite charming. I just can't find a parking place anymore...no probem with that on eBay, but then I can't combine it with the Easter Parade, hot air ballooning, local carnival, Farmer's Market, and other things that the town has going for it. Maybe it can survive as an historical curiosity...

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), August 08, 2000.

As a LARGE user of both shopping methods I think they both have something to offer and that "real" shopping is in no immediate danger. As a collector, ebay offers oppurtunities that no mall can---ultra rare items appear from the attics of estate sales that you could search 1000 antique malls and never find, of course the ebay downside as a consumer is that other collectors are bidding you up on those same items. Malls fulfill the natural desire to hunt(as well as touch and inspect). We don't all want to sit in front of our computers all day every day. I specialize in toy collecting and know which items I can pick up at a mall and sell on ebay for more and vice versa.(for example, the wonderful actions of old tin wind up toys are much better appreciated in person---and higher sales prices can be realized) Then there are items like antique furniture which really don't work out well in the world of e-comerce and shipping(not that it can't be done, but most people don't want to deal with the expense and hassel) I recently returned from a cross country trip on which I found more new Antique Malls than ever---whether this means smaller stores have closed and condensed in malls near the Interstate, I don't know. E-commerce just provides more options, which in my opinion can never be bad.

-- The Consumate Consumer Marcy (livinginskin@yahoo.com), August 08, 2000.

Ken, this is a great topic. I support our little local shops, because I want to have a gas station within ten miles, and a hardware store within 20, but I relish on-line shopping, and I Ebay. The thing that really gets me pysched about Ebay is that I can get anything, anything from anywhere, delivered to my door on my gravel road.

-- Rachel (rldk@hotmail.com), August 08, 2000.

Sue:

Please don't paint all of us eBay sellers with the same brush. In any group there are going to be rotten apples. There are ways to try to prevent being taken - and yes, I am an experienced eBay buyer/seller and have been taken recently.

Perhaps I should have titled this item "Future of Local Businesses vs e-Business" as that is what my post was originally intended to be. I'm learning as I go.

-- Ken S. (scharabo@aol.com), August 08, 2000.

I'm sorry, but we live from hand to mouth and money's tight. My wife and I decided long ago that there's too much risk putting our credit card numbers on the Internet.

We go to the stores. You can't combine a shopping trip on ebay with dinner and a movie when you go to the mall.

-- Robert Addison (FarmerbobMO@netscape.net), August 08, 2000.

Ken, I would never lump all of anyone into anything! However, as far as rick percentages go, buying on ebay or similar auctions is much higher risk that at a secured site where, when you can use your credit card, you have a dispute option to fall back on if your product does not appear, or a "real" store, where you walk out with your item. I would bet that less than .1% of ebay sellers are dishonest....but I wouldn't want to be the one who got taken. I guess it depends on your comfort with that risk level and how badly you want a particular item!

-- Sue (sulandherb@aol.com), August 08, 2000.

Ken,, I would never lump all of anyone into anything! However, as far as rick percentages go, buying on ebay or similar auctions is much higher risk that at a secured site where, when you can use your credit card, you have a dispute option to fall back on if your product does not appear, or a "real" store, where you walk out with your item. I would bet that less than .1% of ebay sellers are dishonest....but I wouldn't want to be the one who got taken. I guess it depends on your comfort with that risk level and how badly you want a particular item!

-- Sue (sulandherb@aol.com), August 08, 2000.

Ken,, I would never lump all of anyone into anything! However, as far as risk percentages go, buying on ebay or similar auctions is much higher risk that at a secured site where, when you can use your credit card, you have a dispute option to fall back on if your product does not appear, or a "real" store, where you walk out with your item. I would bet that less than .1% of ebay sellers are dishonest....but I wouldn't want to be the one who got taken. I guess it depends on your comfort with that risk level and how badly you want a particular item!

-- Sue (sulandherb@aol.com), August 08, 2000.

I love me some eBay!!! There is no Antique Mall or Flea Market that has the potenial to have 1 million people walk by my table or booth in a day, eBay does. Sure eBay is big business and some Fat Cat is laughing all the way to the bank. But the oppertunity for an average person to show his wares to millons of people at a reasonable price is GREAT. I have sold a couple of saddles on eBay for twice as much as I was asking at local Flea Market. Sure their are a few bad apples out there but if you view the feedback wisely and ask questions of previous buyers you should eliminate the bad ones.

As for those who are worried about credit card fraud try doing what I do. All internet trasaction that require a credit card I use one card only, the card I use has a $500 limit and I will not let the card issuer to up my limit. I pay my whole bill every mounth as soon as I get the statement to avoid any high intrest rates. I figure this way the most I could lose is $500 (not that thats not a lot).

-- Mark (deadgoatman@webtv.net), August 08, 2000.

My brother does a lot of business on e-bay and loves it. That also sounds like a good idea of Marks. I have stopped short a couple of times because of card worries. Hey Sue. Do you still have Country Crafts? I lost your site could you post it again? I'm saving for a pretty that I can look at this winter......Kirk.....P.S. Anyway we can charge it to Marks card? Ha Ha joke

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), August 08, 2000.

My sister suppoerts both sides at once - she pays her rent by gleaning what I call Americana Crap (80's toys, old logo t-shirts, etc.) from antique malls and flea markets, as well as garage sales, and sells it over E-Bay. In this case, what goes around really does come around!

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), August 09, 2000.

I do a lot of on-line shopping, but I wonder . . . Few if any of these dot.coms are operating in the black. Could this be, at least partly, from cutting costs in order to drive the little guys, or locals, out of business, eventually leaving the field wide open for future expansions and increases in shipping, handling, mark-up, etc., So we lose our options? What do you think, Ken?

-- Laura Jensen (lauraj@seedlaw.com), August 09, 2000.

Laura:

What you are referring to is often called predatory pricing. Example: A Walmart opens and there are four other pharmacies in town. They keep lowering their prices and advertise they have the best prices in town until they have driven maybe three out of business (they want one to as least say they have competition). Then they raise prices back to standard. Since they are an 800-pound gorilla they can do this - they simply absorbe the decrease in overall profits. Large chain supermarkets did it to drive small independents out of business.

A local situation versus a national e-commerce one is somewhat different, since they don't compete locally as much as nationally, even against other e-commerce sites. In that regard, I don't know the answer to your question. Maybe someone else does.

You are correct in that an increasing number of these e-commerce sites are going out of business. They lived on borrowed money (stock shares sold) without corresponding earnings to keep up the stock price. Amazon seems to be a textbook case. How does one figure a P/E ratio on a company which has negative earnings? Perhaps if the loss had been a gain, the P/E would have been 12. Since it is a loss, the P/E is then -12. It is still called "survival of the fittest."

P.S.: My MBA degree was in 1972 and a lot has changed in the business world since then.

-- Ken S. (scharabo@aol.com), August 09, 2000.

I think the e-businesses are just a matter of leaping into the abyss with only some vague idea that someone will tie off the bungee cord tied to their ankles before it all plays out. Sometimes we consumers catch them and sometimes we don't. Just consider it Xtreme Rat Racing!

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), August 10, 2000.

I try to buy locally from individually owned businesses, because otherwise there will be none. When you choose to save $2 on an item by buying from a big megachain -- or online -- rather than buy from a locally owned place, you are putting your neighbors out of business. AND you are contributing to the reduction of your own consumer choices, because they will only stock items that can be sold in the gazillions (lowest common denominator) and therefore will only use suppliers who can manufacture gazillions of anything, and if you happen to want something which will only sell in the thousands(Widget xb40, as opposed to Widget One Size Fits All), tough luck for you. And tough luck for the smaller manufacturer who is quite able to turn out Widget xb40s efficiently and profitably, however, the smaller stores which used to stock their widgets have been smushed out of business by the big gorilla corporations because people saved $2 on an item, and well, as long as they were there, they spent a bunch more money there too. In an individually-owned business, you are also more likely to find knowledgable staff, who give a damn. A very good book to read about the effect of corporations is "In the Absence of the Sacred" by Jerry Mander. As for e-commerce, tell me, from whom are you going to demand satisfaction when what you laid your money down for didn't come up to snuff?

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), August 10, 2000.