'Pastor' is a fancy way of translating the Greek word for 'shepherd.'

After Jesus was born, angels appeared to pastors watchin their flocks by night. Jesus told Peter to pastor his lambs. Peter told the elders to pastor the flock of God. Paul told the elders to pastor the flock of God. Paul asked, concerning his ministry, who pastors a flock and does not eat of the milk of the flock. Jesus is the good Pastor. Jeuss is the cheif Pastor. Jesus is the Pastor adn Bishop of our souls.

Ephesians 4:11 speaks of 'pastors and teachers.' What is the work of the people in this ministry?

Should all elders be pastors? Are all the paostrs in the church also elders? Were the apostles mentioned in scripture also pastors?

Biblically speaking what are pastors? What is their work?

-- Anonymous, August 03, 2000

Answers

Link,

I believe that our overseers can be called 'Pastor' in the same way they can be called 'preacher'. An evangelist goes out to preach, as I see it.

In our church, the 'pastor' is chosen by the elders and confirmed by the congregants. He has no more power than anyone else, except to influence with his words and life. He preaches and teaches.

We also have other ministers (as we called them, including the man who gave the sermon every week, in the Baptist Church I attended as a teenager) who visit the sick, work with the teens, work with the college students, and with the International Students, communicate with the small groups, and with the Sunday School leaders.

The deacons manage the physical plant. Of course, they and the elders are men from the congregation who are unpaid.

Dr. Rita Huang and her staff have a counseling ministry.

All of these names are used in Scripture, as is 'presbyter', 'bishop', and 'shepherd'. I should think an individual knows what ministry God has called him to, and can come up with a Scripturally applicable name.

Respectfully,

-- Anonymous, August 06, 2000

We also have had a jail ministry for many years, a clothing ministry, and have participated in a program to house (for a weekend) as many as were homeless (mainly women and children) on a given weekend.

Many different churches signed up and people would volunteer to stay all night at the church (in a 'lock-down' format ~ no one was allowed to have visitors or leave during the period [which they knew ahead of time]) and provided meals for as many as were without a place to stay. It was a way for us to get to know and minister to mostly young black families who were having a bit of a hard time.

It was titled "The Traveling Sanctuary". We played games with them, as well as having Bible studies and prayer times, and just a caring time of fellowship. The children had some sports activities and Christian videos. There are not as many homeless as in the past, so we haven't done that for awhile.

'If you have done it unto the least of these, My brethren, you have done it unto Me'.

-- Anonymous, August 06, 2000

Jesus said to call no man your father on the earth, and to be not called 'rabbi' for one is your Master, even Christ.

Christ is also our Pastor. Does it really seem in line with this verse to honor one member of the church by calling him 'pastor, pastor' or 'reverend, reverend' as the Jews called certaion leaders 'rabbi?' What is the difference?

Paul would begin his letters with , 'Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ' and phrases such as that, but I doubt people addressed him as 'apostle Paul' when they spoke iwth them.

I think there are a lot of regular folks in churches out there who are pastors- who have that gift, and lead others in the congregations. They may not have the job title of pastor, though. Some of them are elders, and some are not.

Paul and Barnabas appointed elders. It doesn't say they appointed pastors. 'Pastor' is an organic ministry gift that the Lord puts there, not a church office.

-- Anonymous, August 06, 2000

After this one, I think I will let someone else jump in, as it seems I have been dominating responses to you. But let me say this, Christ is refered to as "The Chief Shepherd (Pastor) We find in the Lord's Church there are "Pastors" (plural) This is very important. No one pastor is to exalt himself above another, and all answer to the chief Shepherd. I like what you said about afixing a title on a person when addressing them. YOur right, we dont see this happening, Thats why the Pastors are in the plural and for the most part the other two words used by the Holy Spirit in describing their work (Bishops, Elders) The exception is in describing the characteristics of those who desire this work. We have gone over this several times in one fashion or another, so I will let someone else get in the conversation. I still cling to Eph. 4 tho as the Holy Spirits descriptions of those our Lord placed in His Church, part of which was in the miraclous side of the intial program of the Church. But, for two thousands years plus now, Evangelists, Pastors and teachers still labor to fulfill the responsibilities God entrusts them with.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2000

Link,

I know the verses about not calling people 'father' and 'rabbi', but I see no place where it says to not call someone 'pastor'.

A 'pastor' is a shepherd of the flock, is he not? Our pastor is chosen by the elders, who are selected by a vote of the congregation.

What differentiation are you making between 'preacher', 'pastor', and 'evangelist'? For all of the different ministries to be covered by differently-gifted people, it seems we'd all need large churches with big budgets. We happen to have that kind of church now, but I have gone to small churches which didn't.

Our elders all step in to teach and preach at times, and some participate as teachers in the Sunday Schools. Our whole congregation is taught to go into all the world and as we go, to preach the Gospel, beginning at Jerusalem (Lansing and East Lansing).

I know there was not a democratic vote for the leaders in the New Testament, so would casting lots be better? ;-) ;-)

Respectfully,

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2000

The Bible does say to not call anyone 'pastor' directly, but there are some principles in the verse that can be applied, don't you think?

The Bible says not to call men 'father,' but yet Paul said he was a father to the Corinthians. But I don't believe he let the Corinthians go around calling him 'Father Paul.' Paul was a father in a spiritual sense, but he wasn't to use it as a title, and he wasn't a father in the same sense God is.

'For one is your Master, even Christ' Jesus said. Jesus is also our Pastor (also translated Shepherd) so why should we go around calling other men 'Pastor, Pastor' as a title. We are all brethren. Why exalt one amn above another in sucha way just because he has a gift?

Scripturally, I believe pastor is a gift, btw, not a church administrative title.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

How does the name 'pastor' differ from 'preacher' and 'evangelist'? They were told to 'shepherd the flock' as they were told to 'do the work of an evangelist'.

And the positions of 'preacher'and 'teacher' were also gifts, were they not?

What do you believe that person or persons doing those different ministries should be called in the assemblies? Why?

Thank you, and respectfully,

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

I don't see a problem with identifying someone in the congregation as an evangelist or pastor. But I do have some concern about honoring men with titles such as 'Evangelist Bob,' 'Prophet Jerry' and 'Pastor Sue.' I don't like the title 'reverend.' Why should somone who wears a turned around collar be revered above other saints who are bought by the blood of Christ. How are using such titles different from saying 'rabbi, rabbi.'

I don't know if I understand that first line in your last message, Connie. Are you saying that all preachers are pastors and evangelists?

-- Anonymous, August 09, 2000

Hello, Link,

In that first sentence I am asking how the three differ and why we would not have all three in any congregation or assembly. Except perhaps 'Evangelist' since that one usually goes out.

I should point out that I don't care WHAT the different workers are called, except in the case of 'father' and 'rabbi', since they are specifically warned against. 'Reverend' has its etiology in the RCC, if I'm not mistaken. They call their priests, cardinals, bishops, etc., 'The Reverend Father' etc., I think. I consider 'Reverend' to not be Biblical, but it might be based on some Scriptural title that I'm not aware of. I don't recall ever coming across that name in the Scriptures.

What to call the person who preaches most of the messages in a given assembly is something that seems to be important to some of the CC/CoC posters here, though, which I find curious and interesting.

Since you brought it up, I wondered what your opinion is. I also consider that anyone 'taking to himself' an honor through a title would be 'suspect' but I can see no difference in that regard between 'pastor', 'preacher', and 'evangelist', or even 'bishop', 'elder', and 'presbyter'. Each has a different function, and we humans have a propensity to want to give titles or names to a function. If the person so named or titled is not heaping to himself glory and honor, but has a humble, true Christlike demeanor and attitude, I don't see the harm in giving a name to him according to his function. If he does the work of an evangelist, I can see no problem in calling him 'Evangelist'. If he does the work of a missionary, I can see no problem in calling him, "Missionary'. The same with 'preacher', 'teacher', 'pastor', 'elder', 'deacon', etc. Each is filling a Biblically-santioned role.

What is your preference in your assembly? I'd really like to hear your answer.

Respectfully,

-- Anonymous, August 09, 2000

I believe that there are evangelists. They have a gift to evangelize, to proclaim the gospel among others effective. Pastors are those gifted to tend sheep.

I don't see 'pastor' as a job-title, scripturally. I also don't see it as a title that refers specifically only to elders. Elders were commanded to 'pastor the flock of God' and when the Chief Pastor comes, if they meet all the requirements listed there in I Peter 5, they will receive a crown of life. Pastor means 'shepherd.' The Greek verbs for 'to shepherd' are obscurely translated as 'feed' and 'tend' in English, so the connection is hard to see at times. Paul and Peter told elders to tend sheep. Paul compared his work to tending sheep in I Corinthians 9, so he tended sheep though he was a pastor and not an elder.

Elders are to tend sheep, but that doesn't mean that there aren't others with the gift of sheep-tending int he congregation, especially if there is a lot of community life and mutual ministry going on, bearing each others burdens, old women teaching younger women, and things like that.

There can be many teachers in a church who are neither elders nor evanmgelists. Since the Bible does not limit who can speak in church to just 'professionals,' speaking gifts can be exercised byvarious other members of the body of Christ.

paul taught that those who proclaimed the gospel should live of the gospel. The particular issue he was talking about was supporting apostles like himself, who traveled and evangelized. HE also spoke of 'honoring' elders. But elders were men raised up from within their own local assembly, and the passage does not say to pay them a salary and expect them to give up their current livlihood, necessarily. I don't see this professional clergy system we have today, where pastors go job shopping and some pick jobs at big churches with health benefits, in the scriptures.

I believe there can be others in an assembly with the gift of pastor.

I don't have a problem with someone identifying himself as a pastor, evangelist, etc. But I am not fond of honorific titles, like 'Pastor Bob.' The rabbis loved to be called 'rabbi, rabbi.' There are some preachers who like to be called by titles, reverend for example.

-- Anonymous, August 09, 2000

A church I attended previously had a congregation of over 700. They achieved cohesiveness and unity by having many cell groups. These were generally by two or three people, who were set apart (even having a 'laying on of hands') as "pastors" of these small groups. I was one such pastor. It was a very dynamic experience.

Incidentally, I was also sent out by that church as an "apostle," as I was active with a cult outreach ministry and acted as their liason to that ministry.

-- Anonymous, August 09, 2000

Link,

Timothy says to pay the elders.

1 Tim 5:17-18 The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages."

-- Anonymous, August 09, 2000

Lee,

I agree with compensating elders according to Paul's instructions to Timothy. On the other hand, paul told the Ephesian elders in Acts 20 that he left them an example of working with his own hands to support himself and others, remembering the words of Jesus 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'

Some churches actually pressure their leaders to be in a situation where they receive more financially from the church than they could give back.

Paul was bi-vocational. If a church did not support him, he did not demand support. He worked to support himself instead. He did receive gifts that were given to him.

Paul's instruction to Timothy says that the elders who rule well were worthy of double honor. Apparently, the amount the elders received had to do with someone's estimation of their work. Perhaps the church members gave more to elders who were doing a good job of leading them. Peter wrote that elders were not to work for filthy lucre, but willingly. Paul wrote that elders were not to be lovers of money. If an elder refuses to oversee the flock unless he receives a wage, is that Biblical? Elders can be bi-vocational, like Paul was, working to support themselves. I don't think a church should not allow an elder to do this. I'm not against an elder earning his livliehood from a church, especially if the elder works a lot of hours, or is retired from his job.

There is a lot of difference bweteen the New Testament concept of the elder and the modern pastorate as seen in a lot of churches, where a religious professional can move from church to chruch over his lifetime and exercise control in the churches he goes to by virtue of the fact that he is aprofessional minister.

-- Anonymous, August 09, 2000