I just got the word from the vet on the second CAE tests..the wethers don't have it the doe and doelings do. They are all CL - though, so that is good. So, I suppose the only thing to do is to keep this herd and do the snatching at birth thing with all futures......Any more news on the CAE+ goats milk helping Aids patients?I'm looking for something positive to focus on right now.

Also, I am curious to hear if anyone has read of a case where a goat became CAE+ because of running with other CAE+ goats? I am trying to plan for all eventualities.

-- Doreen (livinginskin@yahoo.com), July 14, 2000

Answers

Doreen, how heartbreaking. I don't have any information for you, I just wish you and your goats the best. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), July 14, 2000.

From everything I've been told and read and experienced, it is extremely rare to pass CAE horizonally. The main risk would be running lactating does together; there would be a small chance of contracting it thru the milk that drips or is somehow ingested, kinda of a long shot. The primary channel of spreading is from not heat treating colostrum or pasteurizing milk and feeding it to the kids. I would be leary of spreading thru open wounds and blood to. It is more widespread than people like to admit. Most of the time there aren't any symptoms or very minor symptoms like lower milk capacity and hard udder. There is really as many opinions on this as there are goat keepers and Vets. Good luck. I have two older does that were tested, one + and one -. This will be their 3rd year together and I just had them retested, same results. This is not to say it won't show up later...but for now we are status quo. I catch the kids coming out and clean them up myself. I also follow all the precautions. I'm fairly new at dealing with this disease, but from all the research I've done, information not only varies but is contraticting. I go with what Washington State University says since they have done the most research and they say it is very rare that it is passed among adult animals sharing quarters.

-- JimR (jroberts1@cas.org), July 14, 2000.

So sorry to hear your news Doreen! You must feel terrible.

I had my doe tested but the vet here sent the blood to a local lab. Something went wrong with the first test so we took her back for a second one. This time "the lab dropped the tube".I was rather angry at all this faffing around and refused to take her back. Unfortunately this is the only vet around here that works with goats.(and their fees have taken quite a jump since they built a big fancy addition!) I guess I should have her tested again.

I heard about one lady whose whole herd tested + even though she practiced CAE prevention. It turned out that the pasturiser hadn't been reaching the right temp. I guess they hadn't thought to check it. Don't put too much trust in technology unless you calibrate it frequently!

Pauline

-- Pauline Adderley (tworoosters_farm@altavista.com), July 14, 2000.

I wasn't able to snatch my doelings, there is the problem. I took them off of her within an hour, but I guess it was too late. I did snatch the little wether and he is negative so I presume that my patuerization was good....I just have had trouble sorting through all of the information and possible disinformation associated with this disease.Looks like I am going to learn a lot about it though.

The dam is super healthy looking and I have a custom feed mix that Vicki helped me work out and I am going to give pro biotics to the does regularly to try to manage their immune systems. I just have read so much that is contradictory as Jim said, that I kinda feel like I am live without a net.

Evidently I am not very good at finding things on the net, I was looking for sites that have to do with research on CAE and supplement feeding and can't find anything really. I am trying to decide between the ID-1 and the Gluta-syn, any experience from you all would be greatly appreciated. Does anyone have a url or two for me with feeding research??? Thanks very much.

-- Doreen (livinginskin@yahoo.com), July 14, 2000.

Doreen have you joined our Goat Shed yet? It is a very low key group of folks who I, a gal friend of mine in Ohio and Bernice rule! :) No really if you get mean I simply unsub you and I also can erase nasty posts or folks who are mean! We pretty much hash over anything goat over there and we could talk about CAE with you, course we have talked about it before and it is in the list. It is MSN.com communities. Email me if you can't find us and I will send you an invite from the list itself. Sorry to hear about the test result, and if you are just going to raise these animals for your own personal pets you don't have to raise them seperate. But to sell and be taken seriously you can't run positive animals and negative together, and yes you have to heat treat and pasturize. Even though my adults are tested negative and are from 2 to 10, I heat treat and pasturize to guarantee health. Get yourself some really acurate breeding dates this year, which will help you with the prevention you will have to use next year! Keep you chin up! At least it wasn't CL!!! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 14, 2000.

Hi Doreen,

so sorry to hear about the positive test results. Heres a *hug* Its not an ideal situation, but its not the end of the world either. I know many folks who have CAE + in their herds, seperate of course. You just have to manage it carefully. And many does can live long healthy lives and die from old age and not CAE. Just be very careful, keep them seperate and you should be OK. Any questions or if you need anything just come on over to the Goat shed or e-mail me. There is some information on CAE at the 7M herbal farm website... think the addy is http://www.7mfarm.com if thats not it let me know. Good luck.

Bernice

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), July 14, 2000.

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. I can't get Goat shed to come up.....I would like to visit the Kingdom (or would it be Queendom) of the goat folks.

One question for you show folks, do you have to be all in the show cicuit to be taken seriously as a breeder? That isn't feasible for me as I am doing this all solo and really don't have the capital for a private cargo plane. I am pretty good at raising little ones up because I am a bit nuerotic, but owning my own business off my place takes a bunch of time and it has to be that way for awhile yet, but I am thinking more long term.

Thanks for your help again. I am so thankful for this forum. What a blessing!

-- Doreen (livinginskin@yahoo.com), July 14, 2000.

Please educate me. What is CAE? (As you can tell I'm not a goat person.)

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 15, 2000.

I was able to answer my own question. Just didn't look in the right reference. The 1984 Yearbook of Agriculture: Animal Health - Livestock and Pets says: Caprine arthritis-encephalitis virus causes chronic arthritis in adult goats and rarely in young goats. One or more joints may be swollen and sore, and weight loss often is an aftereffect. When this virus affects young kids, they may become unable to stand. Very smiliar signs are seen with cooper-deficient (swayback) lambs and kids. Kids and lambs affect with selenium- vitamin E deficiency or white muscle disease often stand with the shoulder blades pointed outward or are reluctant to stand. ... Caprine arthritis-encephalitis virus most often is transmitted through milk and colostrum to the kid. ... There is no specific treatment for CAE.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 15, 2000.

I once bought a doe that had been bottle raised on a CAE prevention program but allowed to run with postive does. She came up positive, so I guess she got it from running with thhe positive does, or maybe they weren't careful enough with the milk. Another thing that soem people seem to overlook is the transmission of the virus through blood. This means that you have to use a seperate needle and syringe for each doe if you vaccinate them or give them shots, disinfect the tattoo tongs and needles between each goat, etc. Many breeders put tape, such as medical tape, on the pregnant doe's teats a few days before she is due to kid, so that if the kids are born while you're away, they can't nurse. It only takes one drop of milk to infect them, and they can be infected for awhile before they test positive. I don't know if you get the Dairy goat Journal, but Dr. Joan Bowen, DVM, said in one of the issues, that if positive and negative animals are allowed to run together, nearly all of them will be positve in a few years. She had more exact statistics in there, something like 80% of the formerly negative does testing positive. About showing, I have a friend that doesn't show, but she is on milk testing, and because her does are very high producers- breed leaders- she is taken seriously, and there is a good demand for her stock. But I think showing is a good experience, and also good publicity for your goats, and goats in general.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@transport.com), July 29, 2000.