Hi y'all, You guys seem like you know what's going on in the world, so let me ask you this: Do you think it's abnormal for me, at 20 years old, to have never had a boyfriend? I'm not talking a serious boyfriend - I'm talking just in general, a boyfriend. I've never been on a date, nor has anyone ever asked me out. I don't think I'm horribly unattractive. I'm a nice, friendly person and I'm very giving and caring. All I hear from friends and my parents, when I ask if they think I'm doing something wrong, is "No, don't worry, you're just a late bloomer" or "You haven't found the right guy yet." Screw that! I'm not even talking a serious boyfriend here - I just want to date around and have fun! Pfft.

So do you think that there's probably something wrong with me? Obviously you don't know me but would you say, in general, that if by 20 years old a person has never had an SO, significant or otherwise, that they're doing something wrong? Would you possibly ever date someone like that? The thing that scares me is that once I do meet a guy, he'll get scared because I am pretty inexperienced, sexually and otherwise.

And before you ask, yes, I have asked people out before. Not many. But they all said no. Murr.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2000

Answers

Have you considered the possibility that you may be a lesbian? Or perhaps you just dress that way. Find another lesbian, have at it, and report back. Better yet, would you mind if I watched?

Anyway, wouldn't most young women who've been hit on a few times by total losers feel lucky to have your "problem"?

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000

No, Dalton, you feel like even more of a freak when "losers" don't want you. It's not that you want them, it's a matter of "even the losers don't want me."

I guess you're joking about the lesbian thing, because goddess knows -- when two women get together it's all about turning men on.

Meghan, I was in the same position as you and I more or less am still (I'll be 29 next month). Forgive me for phrasing it this way, but...when I was your age, I had the same concerns. Since then, I've discovered a lot of reasons for this:

-I'm pickier than I admit to myself -I'm smarter than most men I meet. I can deal with that, often they cannot. (Ironically, it's usually the smart ones who are bothered by it, the dumb ones tend to be full of caveman arrogance). -I have no clue when someone flirts with me -I seem to attract guys who are equally clueless and so we didn't discover the attraction was mutual until the last possible minute, or after one of us moved/got married, etc. -The other main groups of men who are attracted to me include: older men (my father's age and much, much older), crazy men, men who speak little English (frustrating, as I'm very verbal), bossy men (very unappreciated). -I'm not willing to compromise for the wrong guy. While I think I could exchange some concessions for the Right Guy, a lot of guys I was just sleeping with thought it was their position to tell me what to wear/think/do/go/say. I guess there are some women who put up with that, but it's not "gotta be maaaay."

In your case, it can be any of the above reasons, or entirely different ones, of course.

I've been told that whole "you haven't found the right guy" thing and had the same reaction as you. I was young and didn't want any major entanglements, just some fun (sexual and otherwise). Had I been in any serious relationships, I might have missed out on moving to San Francisco and New York and a lot of things I've always dreamed of doing.

Yes, some guys will be intimidated by your lack of experience. The first guy I really loved (see "the one that got away" topic) said my lack of dating experience didn't matter, but backed off quickly and repeatedly when he found out I was a virgin.

Finally...I don't get why it's considered "normal" to date. It's taken for granted that it is, and yet it's far from a "normal" state for most people I know (even the very experienced). People seem to forget who they are, who their friends are and what's important in their lives in that initial first blush of romance. Most people I know who have done that have regretted it, because of all the time wasted that could've been applied to more important areas of their lives. I certainly don't think that level of distraction is anything to aspire to. My creed is I'll only date someone if it enhances my life (sexually, spiritually, relationally).

Guess I've been no help. I don't want you to think that you, too, will be dateless at age 29! I happen to have very little patience for bullshit, so most guys I meet (I seem to attract a lot who think they are big studs and who cling desperately to absurd gender roles) don't get very far with me. Whether you desire a serious commitment or not, it's no fun dating men who annoy the shit out of you.

Keep in mind that you basically have no idea what the other person's thinking. I found out years later that my first love was relationship-phobic because his first girlfriend (at 19, he was also a late bloomer) was hell-bent on getting married. Ironically, he always dated just the sort of princess whose only life goal is a big wedding. Anyway, he assumed I also wanted to get married. Once, when we were kissing, I said, "I want more than this." I meant sex. He thought I meant the whole house/kids/white picket fence routine. I definately felt something special with him and wanted to be with him indefinately to experience what I could with him, but I was only 20, so marriage was the farthest thing from my mind.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000

Hi y'all, You guys seem like you know what's going on in the world, so let me ask you this: Do you think it's abnormal for me, at 20 years old, to have never had a boyfriend? I'm not talking a serious boyfriend - I'm talking just in general, a boyfriend. I've never been on a date, nor has anyone ever asked me out.

I'm 25 and I'm still a virgin. Beat that.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000

My fiance loved, loved, loved that I was a virgin at 19 years old. Don't worry about not being experienced enough.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000

You know.. one of my BEST guy friends will be 21 soon and is still a virgin. I can't even begin to explain how much admiration I have for him because of it. I cringe everytime he tells me about a new girl he is seeing. I want him to stay my innocent J forever. And, as far as you wondering if you are normal or not.. don't worry about it. Seriously, what is normal anyways? Be picky, trust me when I tell you that its a good thing. A VERY good thing.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000

I'm 25 and I'm still a virgin. Beat that.

OK.

Not only am I a virgin at 32, I've never been kissed.


-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000

It always depends. My roommate in college for four years went out on a couple of dates sophomore year and then didn't do any of that dating crap again till after she graduated.

And it is crap, really. I mean what's a date but dinner with the threat of sex at the end? Either hang out with people you think are cool, or fool around with people you want, or have hours-long discussions with people you can connect with. But "dating" is silly.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000

I can totally relate - I'm 18 and in the same boat. I sometimes feel like the ONLY girl on the planet who's never had a boyfriend, and then just the other day I had a conversation about this with a few friends who are the same way. We decided that guys at our age are a little intimidated by us - we're all about 5'10" and very smart and independent, and not ditzy at all. I've been told that this will all change - when guys get older and more (ahem) emotionally mature, they stop being intimidated by these kinds of things. This theory has yet to be proven, but I'm trying to be patient...

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000

Don't freak out. You're not abnormal.

I never dated. Not once. I made it all the way through junior high and high school without ever once "going with" someone. Never had a boyfriend. I had a crush on a few guys, but I was too shy to actually say anything about it, and besides, I had a strong feeling that nobody would want to go out with plain, bookish ME when they could have a cute, dumb cheerleader instead. (At my high school, I was basically right about this.)

I met my current inamorata on the Internet when I was a college freshman. We talked for quite some time, and then I agreed to let him visit me in Chicago. Things took off from there, etc. etc., now I live with him in blissful sin in lovely Seattle. Amazing where life takes you.

But, I digress. The point is, it's not freakish to not date. I remember reaching this point where I thought, well, now I'm 18, I have no dating experience, it's just never going to happen for me. I was more or less resigned to a life of being alone. It was very surprising to me that there were guys in the world who were JUST as shy as I was, JUST as inexperienced, JUST as resigned to the fact that nobody would ever love them.

Guys are insecure, too! Don't assume that just because you're inexperienced, it will throw a guy off. I mean, maybe it will, but if it does, he was a jerk and you don't want him anyway. Dating is weird and I think a lot of people reach a pretty advanced stage in their life without ever having done it.

So my advice is, don't freak out, don't panic. If there's a guy you like, ASK HIM OUT (I really wish I'd done this in high school). If a guy starts expressing interest in you, and you like him, just go for it. You have to break the cycle of thinking "I'm so inexperienced that nobody will want to date me, and thus I will never gain experience." Somebody will want to date you! Lots of people probably. Check out the couples you see walking down the street. Not all of them are stunningly beautiful, not all of them have great self-confidence, not all of them had any experience at all when they first starting seeing each other. But all of them DID work up the nerve to develop a relationship with someone else, whether that meant "dating" or just hanging out at someone's house, or having wild bunny sex, or whatever.

Just Do It. There's my advice. And don't think you're a weirdo, because you're not.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000

I wouldn't worry about it. I don't think guys are intimidated or fearful by inexperience. I think guys are more worried about the girl being more experienced than they are. See the movie Chasing Amy to illustrate my point. This way they know they are the best you ever had. A curious thing, the male ego.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000

Meghan, girl, you're ok. Things happen at different times for different people. Take it easy. If you meet someone you like, don't get all panicky and feel like you have to hop around making them like you. Live your life for YOURSELF, make yourself happy, and the S.O. will fall into place.

Really. It sounds cheesy, but your happiness, whether you're with someone or not, should be all about you.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000

Meghan..well let me just say i'm right there with you. i'll be 20 in a couple months. i used to think i was weird, not only because i haven't dated anyone long-term, as in more than a couple dates, but because dating seems like a pain in my ass! it would be so much easier if it wasn't all shrouded in mystery or something. it's just so hard to figure out what the other person is thinking, what is going on, etc. just like someone in an earlier post said that when she said she wanted more, her SO thought she meant marriage, and she meant sex. then i started looking at my friends who were in semi-serious relationships, and i saw that they were not all perfect and great. maybe it's just my friends or something, but a lot of relationships and the people in them are a little whacked, too! i guess we are all 'abnormal', relationship or no. anyway, i haven't been much help, except maybe to let you know you're not the only one. i sure wish i had posted earlier, when no one had responded yet, so that you could have had a bit more supportive first post to read...hang in there i guess. maybe when we're not looking for it is when it shows up.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000

I know a fab guy: he's attractive, smart, talented, active, 31 and still a virgin. Simply, he hasn't fallen in love yet.

There's no rush. There's nothing wrong with you, Meghan... with ANY of you who might have less dating/sexual experience than what our society promotes as "right."

Speaking from the PoV of one who bought into all that Sweet Valley High-ish mentality that I HAD to have a boyfriend in high school or else I was "unlovable"... Meghan, you're lucky. You've been able to grow into an adult without all the bulllshit associated with identifying yourself solely as 1/2 of ___'n____. Stay active in things you enjoy, keep growing as a person, and don't worry about boys and dating. Trust me... some idiot asking you out for coffee signifies NOTHING. ;)

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000

well, no, it's not odd at all. this subject roams through my mind quite often since I haven't had a "real" boyfriend yet and I'm 19. I've had 3 internet boyfriends who I didn't end up meeting in the course of the short term "relationship". well, I was 15-16 during all of those relationships soo it was impossible for me to travel and see them and they got bored with the phone calls fast.

I even tried getting a boyfriend in real life. picked my best guy friend..he has no interest in me except to get him drinks when over at my house. I was sooo frustrated. for three years I tried to get his attention by wearing certain clothes, playing stupid games, sitting on him, even once I stuck my finger in his mouth. he just said I was the "friend" type and I was too skinny for his type. gee, thanks. I was devastated. I had wasted three years 8th-10th grade on him. hrm.

this year I've tried the internet thing again since it is simpler to get to know people. I'd get to know someone for a year and end up liking them most indefinitely...I always end up "cool but not..." I just went through another reject last night....a three month triumph..I thought there'd be a chance and now I doubt it...a definite no isn't a good answer.

anyway, I'm giving up for now. sometimes I wonder...I must be messed up. at least, after reading this forum it made me more confident somewhat. I do have one guy who likes me..maybe for fun it'll be okay. and as for being a virgin, I couldn't care less when that happens.

soo yeah, good luck. it'll eventually happen I'm sure or you'll end up a crazy cat lady in the hills but don't count on that..it's a myth I bet. [ugh, I must be on something tonight!]

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

oops I pressed send too fast. my bad!

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

Meghan, believe me, you're the lucky one! I think many of us probably regret having a "boyfriend" and "giving it up" too young.

Even just a boyfriend and not a serious one, poses problems. Usually it turns out that one or the other falls in love.

If I wasn't such a moron, I would have broken up with my first boyfriend. I was almost 17 when I got together with him and he was my FIRST everything. And because I was so happy someone FINALLY "loved" me, I didn't see how uncompatible we really were.

And I ended up marrying the guy. Ugh. (Divorced him 5 years later, immature, abusive jerk he was)

Anyhooooooo, my point is, if you do find a guy who seems interested in you, please don't "give it up" easily. Don't make the same mistake I did.

I wish I had waited until I was older. It would have made things a hell of ALOT easier.

Don't sweat not having a boyfriend... I know it sounds so trite, but really, it's not all it's cracked up to be. Enjoy being single!

And James, my bro is 30 and still a virgin... (had about 4 serious girlfriends) by his own choice though.... he's a pretty religious guy. He's saving himself for marriage. Have to admire someone like that. (methinks)

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

This has been a great forum to read, since I'm a 21 year old virgin who hasn't had a boyfriend. For the most part, I think it's because I'm picky and I don't put up with bullshit.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

Meghan -

I'll be 20 in three months and I have never had a boyfriend. I've went out with a few guys that I liked before as friends but never anything in the romance department. Dating repulses me because I don't like that "dinner with the threat of sex at the end" thing.

You are not strange. There is nothing wrong with you. It is perfectly natural to not have dated at your age. Just hang out at cool places (like nice restaurants, parties, yacht clubs, other social events) and keep an eye open for someone who seems to be interested. Try for a friend first and then if it turns into something like a date, cool!

I know with myself I never want to date because I always feel like I am more intelligent or more ahead of the guys who seem to want to go out with me or hang out with me. I don't have the time for men in my life because I work full time and go to school full time. So overall, a social life is pretty low on my top ten list of things-to-do. Just be patient. It will all work out when you aren't even looking for it to. How about answering some personal ads online? You can chat with them on the internet before meeting them. Sometimes the internet allows you to screen your dates before actually meeting with them face-to-face and it will allow you to be more open with someone about how you've never dated before, how that makes you feel, etc. You won't have to worry about "scaring someone off" because you have never dated someone before. Not that never being on a date is something to be scared off by, but still...

Hmmm. Perhaps it has something to do with our names since we both seem to be in the same relationship boat? *Grins*

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

Dwanollah:

"Trust me... some idiot asking you out for coffee signifies NOTHING."

Meghan WANTS to go out on a date! So now if some guy wants to go out with her for a cup of coffee, that means he is an idiot? Where is the logic there? Did I miss something, or was that passive- aggressive man bashing?

I had a blind date with a girl (hooked up by an ex-girlfreind of mine. Weird!) that was a 32 year old virgin that had only been out on 2 dates in her life. She lived in another state, and we actually went out several times. She was attractive, and a very talented and smart attorney. She seemed to be as anxious as you are about the whole "inexperience" thing. Ironically, that was the only hitch in our dating. I never really gave it a thought. She was so smart and interesting that her inexperience never really occurred to me. But for her... it was always on her mind. She never let go of the thought long enough to just enjoy herself and have a good time.

The only "issue" here is how weirded out you are about it. All first dates are anxious, no matter how many of them you may have had. You want to impress the other one so much, that there is a tendency to overdue it. You can overcome that by just relaxing a bit and recognize the fact that whoever or whenever "the date" happens, THAT person WANTS to be there with YOU. They want to make it fun for you. That's got to be an encouraging thought. The entire world is just shrunk down to the two of you, and that moment is what it is all about.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

-I have no clue when someone flirts with me -

so others do suffer the same fate as me......I am the cluless guy who basically has to have women come out and ask as to why I dont respond to their flirtacious advances "Is there something wrong?" , "What do I have to do to make you see me" etc etc.

Go with the flow , usually people who are attracted to one and other can sense the others interest , and it takes two to make a good martini.

For the record , just coz' you havent had the dating experince is not going to matter to somewone who is truly intersted (and intersting , and wonderful).

Is it just me or is the forum about to break out inot a group hug?

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

No, no, Weepboy, 'twas merely a pretentious twist on Shakespeare's Macbeth... and I try to only passively-aggressively bash a *specific* man, never men in general.... ;)

But I do emphatically believe that one's worth as a person has no direct correlation to the number of times one has been asked out, thassall.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2000

First of all, as everyone else has said, you're not in any way abnormal. I didn't have my first "date" until college, and a bunch of people I know (men and women) were in the same boat. It's not a competition to see who can have the best social life on their 21st birthday, and you don't get bonus points for getting to a certain level before the other people you know.

I think you'll find that at least as many guys would consider your situation to be a plus rather than a minus in terms of datability, (which probably isn't a word, but there you go). Nobody worthwhile will look at you and back away because you've never had a boyfriend -- especially any boy who's had to deal with a date's psycho ex,or worried that his date was still after her ex, or anything like that. I can flat-out guarantee you that there are many, many, many more guys out there who would be genuinely attracted by that, rather than repelled.

I'll also flat-out guarantee that there are a whole lot of 20-year-old guys who have the exact same amount of experience you do, and no more, regardless of what they may say in bars.

Just be yourself, go out and have fun doing what you like to do, and see what happens...

Oh, and I'm totally swiping "dinner with the threat of sex at the end" as an official definition for dating. That's just hilarious.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2000

I didn't have my first date/kiss/boyfriend until I was nineteen. I remember at the time feeling like an unlovable freak, but..actually...uh-oh...I'm about to turn into your mother...looking back on it, it was a good thing. Because I got to know who I was, to be comfortable with myself and my life before I had to deal with anyone else's junk. And the relationships I have had have been relatively healthy as a result because I know what I want. Don't jump on the first thing that comes your way. Everything happens in time.

-- Anonymous, July 14, 2000

I doubt your abnormal (there are some "personality disorders" that can lead to a lack of interest in dating/sexual relationships/etc, but since you're writing and asking if you're abnormal, you're probably not!), though society would like to pigeonhole you that way! In movies and tv shows and crap, it's all sex by fifteen and all that. If that's what a person wants and is ready for then that's what they should do. But I'm 19, never kissed (this is a choice), and been on one "date". I broke up with the guy after it, and I realized it wasn't what I wanted. The great thing about having had no experience with dating or sex or anything is that it'll make it all that much more special. Single isn't so bad, and its definitely not abnormal. As a single person you can develop yourself for yourself and have a strong sense of who you are WHEN you start dating. And what you want.

-- Anonymous, July 14, 2000

Going along with what Trevor said, I can never tell when someone is flirting with me. I can always see flirtatiousness going on around me, but when they turn around the flirt with me, I never see it.

To me, being twenty and inexperienced should be the norm--it should not be the ab-norm. Children at the ages of 15 and 16 are losing their virginities and shit, and I'm like, what is wrong with this picture? I didn't lose mine until I was 21, and I wouldn't have had it any other way. Being 20 and "inexperienced" doesn't mean there's something wrong with you, or that you're unloveable. It means you don't shed your clothes at the drop of a hat or spread your legs for everything in pants that crosses your path. If you don't respect yourself for that, then that's a problem.

-- Anonymous, July 14, 2000

Two more points I'd like to make in addition:

First, I was not trying to imply that those people who lost their virginities at an early age routinely jump in the sack at every available opportunity. I apologize if that came across the wrong way (ignore that pun).

Second, I do worry about being single for too long. You're right to say that it gives you a chance to develop a strong sense of who you are, but some people run into problems because they define themselves in terms of other people, what other people think, etc. I'm occasionally guilty of this. Another problem I'm facing is becoming too set in my ways. I've been single for a while (that was a really hard thing to admit, btw), and spending so much time by myself the way I have been, I'm finding myself less and less willing to bend when I am in others' company. What I'm getting at is the fact that singularity, like anything, has its up sides and down, and it's best to practice it in moderation, if at all possible.

I know, what a wealth of wisdom I am. =)

-- Anonymous, July 15, 2000

Just to add at Heith (sp?) was getting at, I think he means that there is a fine line between social/not social, and perhaps spending a lot of time on your own would lead to less advanced social skills. I can see his point, and I have a concrete example- I go to this meditation camp for teenagers, and we spend four hours of the day in total silence. It can lead to kind of weird free time, as everyone has spent the day being silent, and sometimes it's kind of a collection of the socially ankward. (did I spell that word right? It really doesn't look right, any way you spell it.)

Hon, don't you fear about being "abnormal." I'm pretty much in the same social situation, 18, pretty inexperienced, and by far the most virginal of my friends.

On one hand, it has been the source of some misery. For one, there's the confessional of the losing of virginity. Last summer, it felt like all of my friends were unlocking the chastity belts, and everyone felt compelled to confess to me about it. As I sitting in the passenger seat, joking about being inexperienced. (all three confessons happened in a car) Secondly, you can feel lonely, especially with sick-making couples who act like smug marrieds. Third, society has way too much fixation on virginity, sex, and lack thereof. Look at Ally McBeal or any WB show for examples. This fixation can lead to you being a bit overly willing to have a boyfriend, lose the virginity, what have you.

But, how many times have you seen your friends' so's, and thought, "hey, I dont think Id like them too much as an so or whatnot?" and, i think that, when it comes to guys, just treat them like a girl friend. Give them a call because you need to know something. Go to a show, and then ask for a kiss afterwards. The best way to handle this situation is to work on being casual, I would think.

I'll freely admit that I'm picky. If someone needs to trim their nose hairs, they need to trim their nose hairs. If someone seems a little condescending, because they're a guy and they're older, then I'm turned off. I like my boys to be skinny, mad at the world, and half assed about things. (yes, cruising for the broken heart, I know.) But not necessarily dating too much has given me more freedom to go after those who make my heart do the rhumba, those who make me feel like a giddy schoolgirl after I talk to them. To be honest, it is the rare man who makes me go Whoo! But I find that since that feeling is so interesting, so new, when I want to chase it, I'll at least try. Which is important.

So you can probably divulge that I've only really had one relationship type thing, and it wasn't super long, but it was nice and I was glad that I initially opened my mouth to talk to the boy. Keep fishing, because not everyone is a crack shot.

Here is a warning, though, because I really wasn't prepared for this aspect: if you see a boy who makes you think, Whoo! and then you hang out with him and he's cool, you may find your mind being consumed with thoughts of him. Try not to indulge those thoughts, as it is important to do well in school or what have you. Cute boys can be surprisingly distracting, and try to have some focus.

Life advice from a wussy 18 year old.:) Feel free to email me, though, Meghan.

-- Anonymous, July 15, 2000

woo. sorry this took so long for me to acknowledge everyone's help here. Thank you, thank you all SO much. It was good to hear about everyone's thoughts and perspectives on this issue. I mean, this is not something I obsess about on a daily level, but, y'know, sometimes being alone gets redundant and I look jealously at my friends that DO have someone. (Although, I usually end up patting myself on the back for remaining single when I see the fucked-up relationships that some people have. Teehee). Ah well. I'm going to London for the next year, and everyone, including my mother, is convinced that I will finally get some ass. Yee-haw.

-- Anonymous, July 15, 2000

Yeah, so. THANKS :)

-- Anonymous, July 15, 2000

meghan-don't worry about it. from someone on the other side of the street, let me tell you, you're better off. i lost my innocence and my virginity at 14 to an asshole (true, thought i liked him at the time) and for much of my teenage years, i felt as though i was trying to make up for my horrid experience, but in turn was only having more bad experiences. now at the still young age of 19, i think i've had more partners than all my friends put together. and though i'm not ashamed of it, i'm not proud, either. i believe your experiences shape you as a human and person, and luckily for me my experience had a positive effect. however this is not always the case, and i thank the goddess my over-protective parents and four years with an excellent therapist for not letting me end up as a pregnant 16 year old drop out etc etc. so...to end this i'll just say patience is a virtue. oh and don't sweat the petty things....pet the sweaty things. teehee.

-- Anonymous, July 17, 2000