Hi Everyone,

I just found Countryside magazine on the news stand at a local city Mall yesterday. WOW! I've been looking for a magazine like this for a while, with the "how to's" of homesteading.

Sometimes I think I will never get to move to the country and "slow down". I live in suburban Indianapolis, IN in an apartment complex. I work for a large internet healthcare company training medical offices on computers. Last year, my wife and I took a large interest in the Amish. We started baking all our own bread, tried growing some vegetables from seed on our 6 x 3 deck, tried oil lamps. We both wanted to homeschool. Without going into all the gory details, my wife left at the end of December and "returned to the world" (in a religious sense), so now I'm a single father of two beautiful girls, ages 3 and 1.

I love what I read and see of the "plain life", I just wonder how it is possible to begin and survive, because of the high price of land, and regular costs of living. Obviously, homesteading is cheaper than living in the city, but there seem to be tremendous start up costs. I have saved up about 10% for a downpayment on an average city home here. Couple this with the fact that I have really no experience farming or raising livestock, its a little bit scary. What could I do for work once out in the country? I would like to homeschool my children, therefore I would like to work at home. What do most of your families do for income?

Thanks a lot for reading my post, and I look forward to reading your responses!

Chris

-- Chris M. Sedlak (csedlak@juno.com), June 24, 2000

Answers

Hi Chris!

How far from the city do you plan to move? Jobs definitely get scarcer the farther out you go. What are your talents? Do you want a "career" or just enough money to live on? There are several moms where I work that take their kids with them on paper routes. The job stinks, but the pay is good for the time you put in, you can have your kids with you, and have most of your time to yourself. If you are going to be holding a mortgage, however, you'll need more than that. How about a Medical Transcriptionist? A home computer career....web design, or such? Sue

-- Sue (sulandherb@aol.com), June 24, 2000.

It depends upon what you mean by "make a living"..Do you have a college degree that could be used for teaching computer stuff in rural America??? I'll bet that somewhere you could find a piece of farmland with your "city" money, even if you had to start out in a used trailer home to make it work for you.We just bought a log home on 8 acres of land in Northeast Alabama for $85,000...taxes $179/year...There is PLENTY of work here, especially with computers and it is hard to attract "city" folks who have your expertise.As I'm sure others will tell you..homesteading is a trade off...do you NEED a new car or will you make do with an ugly old one that runs??? Will you run to McDonalds to feed your kids or learn to make low-cost family meals?? Examine how much real income that you need to get by and let that be your guide...I lived and worked with Pennsylvania Amish, and they are the best penny pinchers I have met so far! we use oil lamps and I make my own bread and cheese and wine (yum),and learned how to sew on a treadle machine and cook on my woodstove..If you knew me, you would be astounded that i learned all of that stuff.I was a big city girl all my life..if I can do it, ANYBODY can.Determine your priorities first, then surf the wonderful net for computer jobs in rural areas such as ours..they are there..Good luck and God bless!

-- Lesley (martchas@gateway.net), June 24, 2000.

Chris, a down payment on a city house would be a pretty good down payment on a remote piece of land and a small country house. The farther out you go, the better the deals. It seems your only requirement would be internet service so you could work at home via computer.

My advice to anyone in town who wants out is to just do it. A true country person at heart will figure out the details when they get there.

If you are interested in the Amish and joining an Amish community, visit one and talk to the elders about the requirements for joining. Most are very happy to share their religion and way of life and work ethics with you. Sometimes I wish we would have done that when we had the chance....sigh...

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), June 24, 2000.

The real question is: how much are you willing to give up in order to start over someplace new? If you are willing, many of the people on this board can give you good advice. If you are like my sister, who has talked about moving to the country since 1984 but can't give up her six pack of Coke every day or cable TV, then you are better off staying where you are. Tell us what your situation is.

-- rockfarmer (wintersongfarm@yahoo.com), June 24, 2000.

What does coke and cable have to do with the country, we choose not to have cable but I couldn't live anywhere without my Dr. Pepper! :) A single male or female with small children is a huge undertaking no matter where you choose to live. Giving up your job in the ciry will also intale giving up health care. When you pack up those boxes and move to the country you also unpack all of the same problems you had in the city, the reason why I think so many homesteaders fail, they are using this move as the great escape. Turning any job from a 9 to 5 into something that can be done at home has been the burden of the single mother (and married mother) for years. This to me would be your biggest obstical, the rest would fall right into place if you want it enough. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), June 24, 2000.

You have just been through a life altering experience, as with a death of a spouse, don't do anything for at least a year so you can get your bearing again. In the meantime start finding ways to save money by cutting out unnecessary luxeries like going out to eat several times a week (cut it down to one, buy grocery store pizza instead of going out - that can save alot), rent videos instead of going to the cinema,etc. There are alot of ways to cut down on your consumption so when you do move to the country you won't go through withdrawal (anyone moving to the country from the city for the first time knows what I mean). Also during the meantime, start reading! Check the bookstore section of Countryside magazine and go to the library and check them out. READ, READ, READ. It helps keep you in touch with your homestead side and also gives you valuable information for the future. Then you can purchase the books you think are worth it and worthy of your own library. Start with The Encyclopedia of Country Living by Carla Emery.

It sounds like you may be able to keep your job but work from home. Talk to your boss about the possibility. If you travel for your job what will you do with your girls? Do you have famiy close that can care for them? Do you want to move away from them? Check with area (where you want to move) community colleges, public schools, etc. that might need your knowledge and experience to help instruct rural students.

When you decide to jump in and go for it. Don't rush it and don't start everything at the same time. Setting up housekeeping and a new job with two little ones is job number one. Then start a small garden or a few (5) chickens. It will take a couple of seasons to get the garden really producing well so go ahead and get some chickens. Chickens don't need alot of attention and can be left a couple of days as long as they have access to fresh water and food. THEN when you are comfortable with that start something new.

Check some of the older posting on this forum on what to look for and how to get started. Check under land, misc. and uncatagorized first.

Another thought: Before you decide to move start stocking up on provisions (like everyone did for Y2K) so you will have a ample supply of goods and little need for money. I've heard of people surviving for 6 months after moving to the country or after a job loss because they were prepared. Makes alot of sense.

Last but not least, actually it should be FIRST, start praying about what you want and what God wants for you. If it is what He wants for your family everything will fall into place perfectly, if it doesn't wait for awhile. Don't rush the Lord's timing. Our Best and God bless.

-- Vaughn (vdcjm5@juno.com), June 24, 2000.

Chris, you 'think' too, much. If you want it, if it's mean't to be, it will be.

-- Kathy (catfish@bestweb.net), June 24, 2000.

Can you afford to take off for a year and live with an Amish family as a type of hired hand? If so, place a Countryside Contact item.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), June 25, 2000.

Chris, wow, what great answers above, except I would encourage you to "think", alot. The more you "think" and consider, the better able you are to equip and prepare yourself. Our family did much the same as what you are thinking of, except my husband still commutes about 1.5hrs each way, although our hope is to change that in the future. If you are able to do this, remember to take it slowly. Everything does not have to been done.....yesterday! Your children are still young enough for you to get established in the "country way of life", before you have to begin schooling them, that will help. The book by Carla Emery mentioned above is a MUST! You can do it, if you really want to. Yes, it helps if you bring experience, equipment, ect.. into it, but think of it this way-you will bless your children with the knowledge you yourself had to get the hard way, for them, as they grow, it will come naturally---a way of life! That is what helps me, everytime I think I can not "learn" how to do ONE MORE THING! It is worth all the sweat, sacrifice and hard work to see our children running in the pasture, exploring the "big woods" and knowing they will at least grow up to "know how", even if they later choose not to! God Bless, and good luck whatever you decide to do. Wendy

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), June 25, 2000.

Chris! It breaks my heart to hear about a family breaking up. Precious little ones are usually the ones most affected. I can't tell you what to do but if it was my decision of course, i'd move ASAP. In the meantime save all the money you can because you're probably going to need it. Find a place and start looking towards it. The MOST important thig to do is as Almighty God for direction. He'll help. God Bless you and your little ones. Matt. 24:44

-- hoot gibson (hoot@otbnet.com), June 25, 2000.

Chris, I agree with the person who said that your city down payment would go a long way towards a small country home on a few acres. And your children would be better off in the ocuntry than in an apartment complex -- they are at an age when they ought to be able to play outdoors for a while each day, and get some fresh air and sunshine. With your computer skills, you ought to be able to find work -- get on the internet and start looking! And I would suggest a small town, or the edge of one, because you are going to sometimes need a babysitter or perhaps some household help, and it will be easier to find that if you aren't way out in the boonies. Carla Emery's book is great; another one (actually a set of three) you can probably find in the library is The Tightwad Gazette. When you get settled in your new home, find a church to attend -- you'll get acquainted with the community a little faster, and start making some friends who will know the reliable girls who do babysitting, for instance.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), June 25, 2000.

Hi Chris, my hubby is from Indy also, Speedway to be exact. I was raised in Eastern Ky. and always wanted to go back down South, so he quit his railroad job after 17 years and we moved to Tenn. Been here for 15 years now and he would never go back. (I think I've converted him!!) Although it did take him some getting to living in a small town out in the country. I think really though he was fed up with big city life and wanted to slow down. We just picked a town that we liked, came down with a little bit of savings and rented a "home" out in the country. Talk about cultural shock for him. The lady across our dirt road chewed tobacco, had guineas running everywhere and she walked about 2 miles to catch a ride into town. I was used to it, but it took him awhile. He got a job fairly quickly, but it didn't pay near what the railroad did, and no benefits either. Times were hard here and there, but we lived alot different, didn't spend near as much and it didn't take as much money in a small town as a big city to get by. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if it's really what you want, just go for it. We figured we were just as smart as the next guy, everyone in the world didn't work for the railroad and got by, and everyone doesn't live in a city and that we could make it too. We had alot of stick-to-itness and didn't give up and looked at it as fun. keep us informed and good luck in whatever you decide!

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), June 25, 2000.

In response to the suggestion to live with an Amish family. Ken, maybe the Amish you know are different than ours here in Ohio. Ours would help you out when they can and are good neighbors, but they would not want an "English" person living with them. Actually, they wouldn't even consider it. A good compromise would be to make friends with an Amish family and ask what you want to know and learn what they are willing to teach you during short visits that don't interupt their work.

We respect their desire to remain separate.

-- homestead2 (homestead@monroecty.net), June 25, 2000.

Chris, I agree with the others. Start looking but take it slow. If your doctrinal beliefs are along the line of the Amish, may I suggest looking into locating near a Mennonite settlement. They are plain living folk. Both where we lived in TN (Knoxville) and here in SC we have settlements near by. They are accepting of new believers and very helpful.

-- Renee' Madden (RM6PACK@aol.com), June 26, 2000.

Hi Chris. I agree with most everything posted, but especially with Vicki and Vaughn. I'm a single mom in the Chicago area working on getting it together to "get out." Take it slow. Read everything you can. Start/keep simplifying. Personally, I recommend "Your Money or Your Life." Good luck.

-- Deborah (ActuaryMom@hotmail.com), June 26, 2000.

One more thing - are you tied to Indiana? Midwest farm land (IN-IL-IA) is INCREDIBLY expensive, but there are lots of areas that are much more affordable. Personally I'm looking at MN and MO for the combination of low land prices and reasonable property taxes. I agree that it's very scary. I'm very comfortable with the "homey" aspects - gardening, food preservation, sewing, etc - but the "big" stuff - water, buildings, power - scares the daylights out of me.

-- Deborah (ActuaryMom@hotmail.com), June 26, 2000.

Chris , good for you ! It takes alot to raise children alone . You will be blessed with many rewards .There are many places to find good cheap land to get back to the simple life , but it will be hard to do staying at home to work .Look into all the great advise given above .I too thought about home schooling , but am not .I love are school system and have had no problems.As for the Amish , there beliefs are passed down from generation to generation .Some have strayed away from the bible and are based more on traditions.It would not be easy to find a group willing to fully accept you and your children .They have been known to have many of the same evils as the "english ".Lying, cheating, and staeling for starters .I'm am not pulling this out of my hat , it comes from personal experience .Good luck in your ventures and god bless

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), June 27, 2000.

Chris, my dad found himself in your situation. Single, with two girls, aged 3 and 1. He managed to do a really good job of raising us. It wasn't easy, and we were very frugal, but we had each other. Unfortunately, he chose to stay in the city ( Chicago- yech!),and that made problems later on. But one of the most important things he did was to maintain family ties. How are you with your family? What about your ex wife's family? If your girls have already lost their mother, it will really help them if there are grandmas, aunts, and other extended family members around. Plus, you will need it sometimes, for your own sanity. I would say that if you are on good terms with any family members, either yours or hers, to move near them so they can help you with your children. If they are not that type, i guess you will have to manage without them somehow, but it is really worthwhile to try to make it work. Your girls will need a woman role model of some kind, I am speaking from experience! :) My dad was a school teacher in a private school, which we went to also (for free, because he was a teacher there), and that worked almost as well as if he had stayed home. Your girls are still young enough that you have about 3 years before you have to seriously start homeschooling the older one. Since you are a man, it might be possible for you to get a position as a farm hand, maybe even as a type of thing where you put a down payment down on a piece of land and work as a farm hand for monthly payments,with room and board. It'd have to be just the right situation though, with good people who really wanted to help you out. You could also find a place with a small house in the country, put a down payment on it, and live in the city for a few more years while you make money to put down on the house in the country, and plant fruit trees and raspberries, etc, there. Maybe you could rent it out. Just because you live in the country, doesn't mean you have to raise everything you eat and live without electricity. It will be better if you work up to things gradually, with a small garden the first year, which you can expand every year, start out with a few chickens, later add a few more, then a goat, maybe rabbits. If you can help it, don't get any dogs or cats for a while, no matter how cute they are. They eat up a lot of food, and need training, and if you have to move, they severely limit your options unless you get rid of them. I'll talk to my husband and see if he has any ideas, take care for now.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@transport.com), June 27, 2000.

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so much for all your responses. A few thoughts on what you said...

Some of you mentioned about computer based work in the country. I'm a little burnt out over computers right now, and technology in general, because I see that so many of us have become slaves to it. Also, I would like to get "off the grid", maybe no electric at all. So this might not be an option. But still time to decide :-)

As to where I would like to homestead, I would like to start small (thanks to all of you for reaffirming my need to start small and build from there). I would like to reattend college in the Ohio Valley (Steubenville, OH to be exact), that is if I can move because of child custody arrangments with the courts. So probably starting out it would be wise to have no more than a decent sized garden, maybe a milk goat, and some rabbits. Again, there's some time to decide.

As to the Amish, my wife and I considered joining them, or a conservative Mennonite Church last year. I have reverted back to the Catholic Church since then after doing intensive study of early Church history. However, I still thoroughly enjoy their lifestyle and morals. In some ways, you could call me a Fundamentalist Catholic .

I agree with an earlier poster that it would be difficult to find yourself in a living arrangement on an Amish farm. However, if there is anyone out there (either you or someone that you know of) that would provide room and board and wages for farm work in SE Ohio, please email me. I would be most insterested in discussing.

Things have most surely been difficult the last few months, and a lot of shortcuts had to be taken, but I'm finally geting back to the stage of baking my own bread, and making meals from scratch. We have managed on take home pay of about $18,000 for 4 of us living in the city. That is with $6000 a year in rent payments. So you learn to cut costs when making little. I'm thankful to God to be able to save money toward our first home because of my current employment (even if it is in computers!).

Again, thank you all for your comments, and I look forward to reading your continued posts. Feel free to email me if you'd like. I appreciate the encouragement!

Chris

-- Chris M. Sedlak (csedlak@juno.com), July 01, 2000.

Chris:

Give some thought to the suggestion of finding someone like an elderly couple who would be willing to make an arrangement of selling you their homestead with your work counting as monthly payments. A number of farm houses have separate living units. They would be able to continue to live there. Get a good attorney involved to make sure you don't work for some years, they die and you are left with nothing.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 01, 2000.

If you follow-up on Ken's idea - there are ways to have them sell you the place now but you give them the right to live there for the rest of their lives. I don't know the legal term, but any decent lawyer should know about it.

-- Deborah (ActuaryMom@hotmail.com), July 02, 2000.