help! our dog, a 3 yrs old purebred catahoula (neutered) needs to find a new home, as we don't have the space he needs to run around. how on earth do i place a dog that has bitten many people, chases cars, jumps fences, etc. other than that, he's super-protective of "his herd" (our family and friends), and generally sweet. the vet's office said that obiedence training's the only thing at this point, but we don't have the time or funds for that. at what point can you justify putting an animal to sleep? i feel like we've been in "pending lawsuit land" for two years now, after he bite the cable guy.

any advice? my hubby loves the dog, but i'm in charge of finding him an new home- i'm supposed to "explore all options" which is quickly turning into zero. i can i fix this without being the "bad guy?"

thanks- -i

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Answers

Ooh, Irene, tough one. My immediate reaction is, "I'll take him!", but I don't have the space he needs either. You're in Austin, right? Why don't you ask around locally for people who live on farms, or just out in the Hill Country on a lot of land? My dad (who unfortunately is not nearby) often takes "dumped dogs," whose owners are less responsible than you are and just leave their dogs on his property. Put an ad in the local rag (not the Statesman, but whatever weekly circulation they have over your way). Best of luck, I hope you don't have to put him down.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Look on the internet or ask at the Humane Society if they have a "Catahoula Rescue". I'd love to take him myself but my male Rottweiler said NO. Don't give him away for free though. I understand that's how laboratories get their dogs. If all else fails don't beat yourself up about having to put him to sleep.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

I know you've said you don't have the time or funds for obedience training, but I would recommend you look into it anyway. Check with your local animal shelters and see if they have low-cost options for training. Even buy a book. It really shouldn't take that much time.

When I was younger, I lived on a farm where we ended up with many dogs that city-folk had purchased as cute little puppies, but who quickly became a bigger handful than barganed for. With just a little bit of work, they all became wonderful pets. I am NEVER in favour of putting a dog down who has what sounds like simple obedience problems.

You can teach an old dog new tricks, and with some discipline and adequate exercise that dog should have a good 7 (or more) years of companionship left in him.

An option to keep him in the yard, by the way, is invisible fencing... electric shock administered when he crosses the barrier. I don't like it much, but I have used it and it does work.

While you're trying to deal with him in the interim (while you work to find him a home), ask yourself: Does he get at least an hour of running around a day (like, outside of the backyard, with somebody)? Does he suffer from separation anxiety? Correct those things and he might become a better pet, for you or for somebody else.

If you're really stuck, you can always try Puppy Prozac. I don't remember what it's called, but my 80lb Wolfhound/Lab X is very high strung, and for a short period of time, his previous owner had him on the drug. She said it kind of turned him into a zombie, so she took him off it and worked on his behaviour instead, but it DID work. And it might give him the few extra months you need to find him a home.

For sure, try the rescue route, but a simple (colour photocopied) poster with a couple of pictures and your number plastered around local parks, pet stores, vet offices etc. might find you the perfect fit... that's how I got my wonderful dog--from someone in a similar situation to you.

And as for giving him away free: Don't charge for him, but interview the family as you would a prospective roommate, or babysitter... And be fair to the dog, YOU got him, YOU are responsible for his life. This guy does sound like a handful, ask the right questions, disclose some his quirks and make sure you don't give him to a first-time dog owner who will end up in the same situation you're in now.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

I hope I don't ruffle any feathers here, but there is a problem with this dog. Despite almost losing my left hand to a dog when I was 7, I AM a dog lover. 200 stitches didn't scare me away from dogs, but it did teach me a healthy respect for them. It also taught me that a repeat biter needs to be put down. "Interviewing" the prospective family is not going to prevent the dog from biting someone else. A loving family is going to think of other PEOPLE first and will not even consider a dog with a bite history. You could always omit the dog bite history, but you obviously care alot for animals, and people should be shown the same respect.

I was the second victim of the chow that got me. Unfortunately, I was not the last. The last was a 9 year old girl that ended up with half the stitches I did. However, hers were in her face. You can barely see the scars I have from my bites, but hers will never go away. Do you hear me pleaing with you here? Dogs are wonderful, loving pets, but like people, there are bad seeds out there. You might have one of those. Another interesting fact: People buy homeowners insurance to protect their homes from fire, theft, etc. However, the largest loss to insurance companies on homeowner's policies today come from dog bites. 85% of those losses are from repeat biters.

You may have liability insurance on your home, and it will respond if you end up in court over another bite, but the insurance company's money didn't make the scars disappear on that 9 year old girl's face. I hope you give this alot of thought.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

I should add, I guess, that I agree an aggressive biter should be put down--particularly if he's tasted blood. A good vet would recommend the same thing--the vet hasn't, however, and it just sounds to me that this dog has a host of very common behavioural problems that can be resolved with a bit of time and effort.

And I'll also second telling the prospective family the truth about the bites.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

I hate to tell you, Irene, but the vast majority of rescue organizations are very unlikely to take a dog with a history of biting. There are too many non-biters that need homes. You can't lie to prospective families. That's a big dog and it could seriously injure someone.

At the risk of sounding like a bitch, you can't find another home for this dog. It's your responsibility. You shouldn't have gotten a big dog like that if you couldn't afford obedience training, and now you have a biting dog that is a danger to any family that adopts him. The likelihood is that even if by some miracle you find a rescue group to take him, he will be put to sleep because he is a biter.

Either take the responsibility for the situation you created and have this dog put down instead of passing that unhappy job onto someone else, or scrape up the money and put him through obedience school (although I doubt a cheap pet store obedience class is going to work on a three year old with a history of biting). It's your dog; it's your responsibility. It's not fair to make some poor overworked rescue organization make the very difficult decision to put this poor animal to sleep, any more than it's fair to pass a dangerous dog on to an unsuspecting family.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

i'll have to defend myself here, and mention that my husband and a friend co-bought the dog before i arrived on the scene. hubby liked that the dog was rough housing at 6 wks (around that). at the time, there were very few catahoulas in austin, and i think that was part of the charm of getting the breed.

what really disturbs me is that my husband doesn't seem to really be bothered with the whole biting thing. it REALLY bothers me, and honestly, i think that the dog needs to be put down. i hate to be cruel, but i also hate to think of the damage he could do. this has been an on-going issue in our relationship. a very touchy one, to say the least.

i talked to my mother in law last night, (god bless her soul, she used to be a guidence counselor), and she asked me who's problem it was. in the end, it's my husband's problem, because it's his dog. i have to give up trying to fix it, because i'm not getting anywhere. there are two leads i got via email this morning, but i didn't mention the biting to anyone. i would feel so guilty, and would even doubt, that i could pass the dog on without letting the new owners in on his biting history.

my sister is a dog trainer and passed along some interesting tips that she uses to train pit bulls. i hope that hubby will make some sort of decision. last night, i mentioned that he hadn't even taken the dog out to run since sunday, and then he just left to hang out with friends, while the dog and i stared at each other (then i started bawling and called my mom in law, then bawled some more).

am i totally out there on this? it seems cruel that the dog is on a chain all day (jumps fences), then spends the evening in the house. i would take him on walks, but he totally overpowers me (he's 75lbs, and though i'm not THAT thin, he still can drag me), and doesn't mind me. it's just that this breed is NOT a suburbia breed. we're not talking a poodle here.

i'm going nuts on this. will just have to take a deep breath and hope someone, somewhere makes a decision.

thanks for your support and ideas. keep 'em coming! :)

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2000

I don't mean to be nasty here, but this whole thing is making me very angry. Your husband is precisely the kind of person who should never own a dog. He's the kind of dog-owner that makes vets and animal-shelter workers cringe.

Most breeds can be city dogs, but only if they're trained properly. It sounds to me like your husband has done just about everything wrong. Chained dogs bite(in fact, if you keep chaining him, he's likely to start biting you). Dogs who aren't exercized enough jump fences and chase cars. Dogs who don't spend enough time being socialized become agressive and overprotective.

Don't get me wrong: there are dogs that are born bad--with mental problems or uncontrollable agressive tendancies--but more often than not, they are simply ruined by bad owners. It sounds like this dog is suffering from irresponsable ownership.

It is up to you (really, your husband, I would say) to decide whether you want to take responsability for the damage you've done to this animal. Try to fix it with obedience training and apropriate exercise, find him a home with someone who is capable of resolving his problems (there ARE those people out there, I know several people who have taken in very difficult and agressive dogs--but they know how to handle them). Otherwise have him put down--but make it very clear to your husband that he has killed this dog.

BTW, if you're tired and frustrated and its ruining your relationship, I understand. But if you do want to try to make this animal work out, talk to your obedience-trainer friend lots more... and if you want to exercise him there are options better than a choke-chain or collar out there. Dogs have strong necks and shoulders, and are at an advantage pulling ahead of you on a leash. See if you can get a haltie or harness for him, which will make better use of your strength.

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2000

Your husband sounds terribly irresposnsible! Really. Who told you to "explore all options"? Sure, this is the natural thing to do if this is your responsibility but it sounds as if someone is telling you what to do, or at least leaving you holding the bag and probably not even responding to your obvious distress! I am a cat owner myself, so i do not have any specific dog advice, but what Jen says is excellent ( i do know that chaining a dog will make it anxious and agressive and as for not taking the time to walk it...)-also take into account some of the other advice too... I would seriously look at the relationship you have with your husband- I am sorry but he just doesn't sound like he has the kind of awareness and sense of responsibility that you do. Is this the kind of relationship you want? Can't your sister help with the dog training, being a dog trainer and all? This seems to mean a lot to you and it seems no-one close to you is helping! ( except your mother in-law, perhaps...) As you do seem to be left holding the bag, the best thing to do would be to look at all the suggestions here and see if you come up with any more yourself and then decide. I know it's not easy, Best Wishes

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2000

Someone needs to be responsible for the pet - and if isn't going to be your husband, hopefully it will be you. To put a dog down because it has problems (because its been ignored and somewhat mistreated)and because you don't want to pay to try to address the problems, is just wrong. Animals take a lot of work. Your husband made a committment when he got that dog, and just because he's out hanging with the guys so he doesn't have time to spend with the dog, DOESN'T mean the dog dies. It's just SO irresponsible...

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2000

"These dogs are very loyal and devoted to their owners, but tend to be wary and unwelcoming to strangers. They require plenty of daily exercise and early and consistent training. Weekly brushing is the only grooming this breed requires."

This is quoted from an internet site I found in only a few minutes. The dog definitely needs to be exercised regularly, should've been trained, and probably needs to be watched around strangers.

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2000

A site I found on cathoulas says they will also bite if they aren't property socialized.

I agree about the dog needing a lot more exercise. And while a trainer might recommend a pinch collar at this point, I second the recommendation for a Halti. It will give you the immediate ability to walk him. I weigh 125 pounds and my dog weighs 85-90, but I'm totally in charge with the Halti. Some people don't see it as a permanent solution, but that dog needs exercise and you probably need a way to give it to him before he can be trained to heel properly.

Try a pet store. Oh, and use a nylon slip collar as a backup; it took my dog a week to figure out how to spring the catch on the Halti by rubbing up against my leg or the grass or a tree. I clip the leash to both the Halti and the slip collar, but the slip collar stays slack as long as the Halti is intact. If the Halti comes off, I still have the dog instead of just an empty leash in my hand.

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2000

no offense meant, BUT - you MAKE THE SPACE. this dog has been brought up this way, and now has problems that make it impossible for someone else to own it. you don't just put a dog to sleep because you don't have room for it. you make the room. you don't get a dog if you're not willing to make sacrifices for it over the years. it's a 10-15 year investment. that's just the breaks.

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2000

I also have to add here: if you know your dog bites, why the hell aren't you supervising it more closely?! If you know the dog has bitten before, why did you let it have access to the cable man?! you say it chases cars, jumps fences, reacts badly to being chained up -- then WALK it, for God's sake. WALK it on a leash where you have control! If you have to "inconvenience" yourself to walk the dog 3 or more times a day, then that's how it has to be. YOU have to make special accomodations for this dog because of how its been raised -- it's your FAMILY'S responsibility.

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2000

OK, I agree Irene did go about this the wrong way and all but we all learn from mistakes. Do you think this dog should live in a miserable cramped space where his people don't have time to pay attention to him? Should he spend the rest of his life in a no-kill shelter? Should he go to another home where he can bite and seriously injure another person? Before you judge me let me tell you I did research on Rottweilers for 19 months and was fully prepared for my puppy including obedience training. I am on the "responsible owner" side of the fence but sometimes things just happen like this. I'm not being a bitch I'm just debating : )

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2000

okay, i actually have a rottweiler. she is a happy, well-adjusted, sweet-as-a-puppy, affectionate, gentle, and loving dog. she also has lived with me in apartments for a lot of times in my life (she's almost 9). she has done just fine in a small space, has never shown a destructive or aggressive bone in her body. why? probably 1.) due to her naturally docile and non-aggressive nature, but also 2.) because i *take* the responsibility to make sure she is properly exercised, socialized, etc. i suppose those online profiles of dogs are generalizations that have to come from somewhere, but every dog is different. so, no. irene's dog shouldn't be forced to live out its life in a miserable, cramped space. nor should he live out his life in a no-kill shelter. what *should* happen is that Irene and her family should take the responsiblity for this dog along with all the suckiness that comes with it. because that's what you DO when you make the committment to getting a pet. so, yes, it sucks that you can't just put your dog in the yard when you're busy, and yes it sucks that you have to walk the dog 4 times a day, and yes it sucks that the dog can never, ever be unsupervised. and yes it sucks that the dog can't ever be allowed to greet people or see others beside your family. but that's just the breaks! sorry!

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2000

Just put the dog down before he seriously hurts someone. Once a dog starts biting it is irresponsible not to.

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2000

Taking care of your pet's needs doesn't suck. I love walking my dog, working on obedience, socializing him, etc. I take care of him almost like he's my child and I truly enjoy it. What Irene and her husband are missing, I belive, is the bond they should have had with the dog many years ago.

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2000

I'm really impressed by the number of excellent suggestions made in this forum--and I have to agree on the training issue. It *is* possible to "untrain" fighting dogs (don't ask me how I know--working with various animal rescue groups gives you an insight); and, with patience, it's also possible to retrain biters. I'd suggest seeking out Matthew Margolis's training literature, or, if you need to make immediate improvements, try the K9 Military School, which is a link off http://www.meanwhilebackatthefarm.com/doghouse/gooddog.htm

Most importantly: Don't give up yet. If we could get the dog to Florida in any way, I have a friend there who specializes in difficult breeds....

The Grammarqueen http://www.verbalicon.com/semicolon

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

well, through a good amount of research and luck, we've come across a wonderful lady who runs a shelter in lockhart, about 25 miles away. all the dogs looked healthy, they get obedience training, and they have 5 acres to run around. she even knows a cattle farmer that trains dogs, just what cacho was bred for.

thank you for your suggestions. i think we've made the right decision for "us" at this point in our lives. (and, i won't be getting a dog anytime in the near future, you can count on that!)

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2000

Congratulations for making the tough decision to give up your dog to someone who will be able to recover the loving pet that lurks within that shell of disobedience. It sounds like you've found the perfect place for him to get a new start on life.

Good luck to both you and Cacho.

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2000

Oh, I'm happy you found a place. I was reading this thread a few days ago and have been in the process of trying to convince my boyfriend that we need another Catahoula.

As a Catahoula owner, I cannot stress enough what a difference exercise makes. If I don't walk him straight after work to get some energy out of him and spend a little one-on-one with him, he's a total canine asshole. He loves when we work on his training and the more we let him around us and find high-energy things to occupy his time, the more docile he is. He's never bitten anyone but he does have the tendency to snip at ME (only me, 'cause I'm lucky) when he's been in the fence all day while we work (he kind of pinches you with his teeth, it hurts like hell)...

but that's good, I'm glad you found a place. Although we would like Oscar to have a buddy eventually, we were having trouble thinking of a way around a fence-jumper (Oscar hasn't quite figured that one out, YET)

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2000