As a frequent business traveler who lives in St.Louis I've spend a bit of time in the smoking bins at the STL airport. Just for the record the STL sin bins are among the worst ventilated and smallest of any airport I've been to. Anyway Pamie, my reason for writing is your comment of being the best looking person in the smoking room. I think that everytime I'm in there and I'm not even all that good looking.

Are all smokers ugly? I've seen goodlooking smokers, maybe the goodlooking smokers don't go to the airport? Do all the ugly people think they're the best looking person in the room? What do all the beautiful people think when they walk by and see a bunch of ugly people sitting together? Am I actually ugly while I'm in there?

Well, at least I usually don't have to fly through O'Hare which bans ALL smoking inside the airport thus forcing the habitual smoker to go completly outside the airport.

Writing that got me thinking. Usually the smokers out on the curb are better looking than the smokers in the glass bins inside. Hmmm...

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Answers

That's probably because just five minutes inside that under-venilated cancer-air-filled cubicle turns most people's skin yellowish green. At least outside the smoke is beind diluted a little. (http://www.geocities.com/alexatelier)

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

* Are all smokers ugly?

Sometimes. All smokers are always ugly when they're smoking. Otherwise, just some are always ugly.

* I've seen goodlooking smokers, maybe the goodlooking smokers don't go to the airport?

Yes. Good looking smokers take Amtrack or Greyhound. But I state the obvious...

* Do all the ugly people think they're the best looking person in the room?

Hell, most smokers think they SMELL good. I wouldn't be surprised.

* What do all the beautiful people think when they walk by and see a bunch of ugly people sitting together?

We are thinking, "Hmmm...I wonder how many packs a day they smoke?"

* Am I actually ugly while I'm in there?

Most likely. Some ugly people smoke. All smokers ask stupid questions. Therefore....

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Hmmm. I am a smoker in the process of quitting, which is very difficult, as you other smokers know. But I haven't bought a pack of cigarettes in over two weeks, and I have been smoking since I was fifteen (I'm 20 now). Sooooo, I have never been in these sin bins, but I can see what you mean. There are lots of ugly smokers out there, but there are pretty ones too. I think that the comment that "all smokers are ugly when they are smoking" had to have come from a non-smoker. It's a bad habit/addiction, but that would be like some one saying that all people who drink alcohol are ugly when they drink. Personal preference. Anyway, this makes no sense, because I am tired, and still hungover. So I am going to go.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

You had to get me started. Smokers are PATHETIC! They think they're so novel, that the act of smoking makes them appear mysterious or sexy or ruggedly individualistic or sophisticated or cool or whatever. But underneath it all, most smokers know the real reason they smoke -- because they're addicted! I really could go on and on and on and on about how smokers are nothing more than spineless slaves to the tobacco industry, but it all comes down to the fact that smoking is a dirty, deadly, stinky, obnoxious, inconsiderate, litter-causing, f'd up addiction. The next time a smoker decides to inconsiderately walk in front of you and let their filthy death vapor waft into your personal space, try doing what I sometimes do: speed up and walk in front of them and then rip a good fart loud enough for them to hear. Pardon me for farting! Perhaps I should start a farter's rights group. It makes about as much sense as a smoker's rights group. Sorry for the rant, but I get really worked-up about smoking. And just think about how bad I'd be if I used caffeine.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

There's another reason people smoke besides addiction: it's because their friends do. I've known so many people who quit, but started up again because of peer pressure (like Pamie did).

And I do think smoking, in itself, is kind of ugly. It has all the appeal of watching somebody shoot heroin.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

Wow, you've all convinced me. I'm quitting tomorrow.

Okay, that was sarcastic. I don't smoke because I think it's cool, or sexy, or mysterious, or because my friends do (since none of them do, and in fact nearly all of them actively pressure me to quit). I smoke because I am addicted and weak-willed, and also because frankly, it like to. Maybe I just live a sheltered life, but I don't know any smokers who currently smoke for the reasons listed above. They all will admit it's because their addicted, and they know it's not attractive, and they know it's killing them.

I get pissed off at fellow smokers who are inconsiderate, or are litter bugs or any of the other negative stereotypes about smokers. I don't really know what the point of this post was, except maybe to say that I think the reasons why people smoke (just as with the reasons why people use other drugs, or have other compulsions) are complex.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

I smoke. Big minty 100s that I LOVE. Addicted? Sure. I'm not denying it. I love to smoke. I don't do it because I think others will find me cool. I don't smoke to annoy the general populace. I do because I want to, and I don't care what you think. When did smoking become a crime? Remember in the 50's when 9 out of 10 doctors smoked Camels? Those were the freaking days. Here in Canada they are upping the tax on a pack so once again they'll cost close to $7. (That's $5 US) Maybe one day the government will tax cars, because I have a pretty good idea which one poses more of a health threat. Okay, rant over.

In answer to the actual question, you *are* the best looking person in the bin. The good lookers are most definately outside. No good looking person will sit for 6 hours waiting for their flight in a smoke filled box. They may be cute, but they are not stupid.

After you leave the bin, another person takes your place and thinks the exact same question about themselves. The same thing happens in 24 hour doughnut stores/restaurants. When was the last time you were the ugliest person buying a cruller and a coffee at 3 a.m.?

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

I'm allergic to smoke, to the point where I try to hang out in bars with a patio, just so I can breathe. Otherwise, I can't stay inside one for more than an hour without getting a huge headache or having an asthma attack.

That said, practically everyone in my family smokes or has smoked at some point in their lives. Smokers aren't filthy or ugly people, they just have an obvious bad habit. We all have bad habits, some of which are more discreet than others.

And it seems to me that for the most part, smokers are more considerate of non-smokers than they ever have been. I like the trend of several cities adopting no-smoking ordinances in restaurants and the like. It really makes a huge difference for people like me.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

I'm a smoker. I think that anyone who makes the statment that smokers smoke because they think it's cool, sexy, mysterious, or glamorous, is probably a little bit out of touch with human nature. Nobody thinks it's sexy to smoke a cigarette. It smells, it's expensive, and it doesn't even taste good. For me it's more of a nervous habit that I started when I was young and immature, and find it hard to quit now that I know how really gross it is.

However, as for us being inconsiderate, I would much rather be the type of person who lights up a stogey to ease stress. Than to be one of those people who look at me like I'm a lepor because I smoke. It's an addiction, not something we do to offend non-smokers. So get over it.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

All smokers are not ugly - not by a long shot.

But very few smokers are sexy. Smoking in and of itself is horribly disgusting; it's like trying to look sexy whilst drinking from a straw. G'luck on that. But if you can smoke and be sexy at the same time, you've accomplished something.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

My parents have smoked for all of my life and I swore to myself I would never do that like they did - yet, at 16, I started smoking and haven't stopped. I think, basically, the main reasons I stopped was basically to be part of the "smoker" ground, or whatever. I remember that every family dinner or anything that my parents and my sister would both get to leave in the middle and just leave me behind at the table with these people I didn't really enjoy. I guess I wanted to be rude and leave in the middle too. Heh.

Of course I think it's stupid now that I smoke and the reasons don't look as valid now (I used to tell myself that I was only doing it so my way-too-high voice would get deeper if I smoked - yep, along with a lot of other things too).

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

Holy cow.

You want to know what makes me upset? It's that people feel they can rip others apart and dare judge them on the basis of being a smoker. Calling the act of smoking ugly is one thing, but making blatantly rude comments about smokers in general is entirely different. Let's take a look at what's floating around in this forum:

*All smokers ask stupid questions

*Smokers are PATHETIC! *The next time a smoker decides to inconsiderately walk in front of you and let their filthy death vapor waft into your personal space...

How sad.

On the flip side, I just wanted to give Leigh Anne credit for being decent. Thanks.

Sorry to deviate from the topic.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

Ooookay... I know smoking is a bad habit. I'm well aware that it smells. I most certainly do not think it makes me look cool, mysterious or sexy. I started smoking when i was 16, not because my friends did -- in fact, none of them did, and few of them do now -- but because I was curious, and i discovered that I liked it. I quit a few years later, and have since started again. Why? Because I am going through a terrible time right now, and smoking helps a bit. It gives me a distraction. It calms me down, and helps me stop crying. It eases the nervous tension. I do try to be considerate of others -- I don't smoke indoors, even if it's allowed. I try not to let my smoke waft into other peoples' faces. I don't throw cigarette butts all over the ground if I can help it.

Yeah, smoking is a bad habit -- but being rude and judgmental is a far worse one, as far as I'm concerned.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

well, here's why I smoke: i think i'm novel, that i appear mysterious, sexy, ruggedly individualistic, sophisticated and cool when i smoke. but mostly, i do it to annoy the Pete's of the world. Such indignation. i mean, my smoking is an addiction. i'm not trying to make any excuses, but is Pete addicted to flatulence? i doubt it. i wonder if there's a "gas patch" he could look into. all i know is, one should stretch out before climbing up on to such a lofty soapbox, you'd hate to pull a muscle or something.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

I never thought I would hear myself say this, but some smokers do look cool. And smokers always know how to break the ice with other smokers. They don't have to rack their brains to come up with an original opening line. The entire plot in this novel, which I recommend btw, hangs on two smokers being able to start a conversation because they are smokers.

I can't smoke because I already have trouble breathing, but I've considered learning to pretend to smoke, just for social situations.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

I'm a smoker. Definitely addicted. Why else WOULD I smoke? Whoever says people smoke for vanity obviously hasn't smoked. There's nothing even remotely attractive or sexy about it. well, okay, 'cept for if you spy a sultry broad slowly sucking in a waft of smoke, french inhaling maybe, and then even slower exhaling a long drawn out puff of smoke. She winks, and then........coughs, gags, hacks, and spits up a huge phlegm glob. Sexy? No way.

I must say, that I've never seen a sin bin in an airport other than in Atlanta. Newark bans smoking, JFK too, and so does LA and Honolulu. Even most of the European airports I've visited are non smoking establishments. I was thoroughly as disgusted as everyone else when I entered Atlant's smoking "lounge". It should be called a death trap. I could barely see and I didn't even need to light a cigarette, I just took a couple deep breaths. I would rather have been outside.

All smokers aren't ugly, but they will be if they keep smoking. Wrinkles, black undereye circles, yellow fingers/teeth, hacking cough, we all know what it does. It isn't pretty.

It isn't something to be proud of. It is an addiction and for anyone who blatantly bashes smoking should be just as ashamed as smokers. Addictions have so many different faces. Everyone is addicted to one thing or another, some more healthy than others. So if you want to bash a smoker, tell us what you're addicted to so we can bash you too.

Saying that smokers ask dumb questions makes whoever said that an ignoramus.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

Fact: smokers will develop more facial wrinkles than non-smokers

Fact: male smokers will eventually become impotent (maybe Viaga. can help, who knows)...

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

I am smoking right now. Two cigarettes in fact. One for each hand. Booyah!

I really don't get the anti-smoking vitriol, I really don't. I do not smoke in non-smoking areas, I don't smoke in other people's homes unless invited to do so (and I do not ask. I assume the negative.) I don't smoke in MY home when I have non-smoking visitors. I don't smoke in other people's cars unless invited, I don't smoke in my car when I have non-smokers with me. If I'm with a party of non-smokers at dinner, we sit in the non-smoking section. I don't throw my butts out the window, on the ground, or anywhere but a trash bin. Even when I'm camping, I stamp out the fire on a rock, and put the butts in a plastic bag that I take home and throw away. If I'm standing outside smoking, I try to do it in an out of the way, my smoke won't waft into other people's faces area. And I know I'm not the only smoker who does these things.

And yet, in spite of this, we still get to listen to ranting, raving bullshit about how ugly, stupid, and inconsiderate we are. All I have to say is I'm waiting for all of these high and mighty non smoking freaks to get rid of their cars, to subsist solely on solar power, and to draw their water from a well in their own backyard, because the oil, gasoline, natural gas and nuclear powered water stations are putting a lot more toxins in the air than I and my smoking brethren ever will. You don't like the way our clothes smell, then step the hell away. I don't want you standing next to me sniffing like a root hog anyway.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

hee, Saundra is funny.

I stopped in one of the smoking bins in Saint Louis. I too put out my cigarette about a third of the way through. I was starting to suffocate. I don't remember thinking everyone in the bin was particularly unattractive, so I must have caught the bin on an up night, or something. Actually I don't think I pay attention to things like that.

Anyway.......

I don't smoke in my home. I usually don't smoke in restaurants. I smoke mostly in my car. Oh, and a bar + liquor turns me into Puff the Magic Dragon.

I smoke because it is a habit. I don't think for me it is an addiction to nicotine, more than it is just a habit that comforts my need to fidget. I smoke because I like to smoke. Do I like the smell, no. Do I care if other people like the smell, sometimes. Do I smoke because my friends do? Actually none of my friends smoke, and I graduated from high school a long time ago.

Oh and I may not look sexy smoking, but I DO look sexy drinking through a straw. I promise. It's all about lip positioning, baby.

The truth is, I am so attractive I need to smoke. My theory is, I smoke to eliminate the percentage of men who would try to hit on me in a bar, but won't if I have a cigarette in my hand. Why would I want to talk to them? I'm married. The wedding ring doesn't always work. But the smoking does. Trust me. And judging from certain responses on this forum, I will continue to stand by my theory.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

smokers stink. it is a fact. they could be lovely people inside and out, but if i had to choose between kissing a hunky smoker and having all of my eyebrows plucked out at once- i'd go for the eyebrow job. you will never hear a smoker refuse a kiss from a non-smoker. smoking limits your options and brings misery all around, with discusions like this one.

if you must smoke keep those stinky butts to yourself, stop complaining about health problems, and stay up-wind from me in your stinky cloud of death.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

hmmmmm...... I don't think I heard anyone complain about health problems. Putting words in other people's mouths is a pretty stinky habit too.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

And.....I have refused many kisses from nonsmokers, just FYI.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

Well reading all these posts makes me want to be come a smoker because you guys are cool and funny!I sure don't want to be classified with all these whiney little non-smokers...jeez guys! Some of my friends smoke too much, some of my friends drink too much.. and I love them all! I'm not perfect and I don't expect anyone else to be either.. where is the love in here?

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

Smokers shouldn't have to validate themselves or defend their manners when it comes to smoking. Those of us who can actually see the big picture understand that most people have a modicum of respect for others. Preachy non-smokers (you know who you are) need to keep their "holier than thou" attitudes in check. End. Of. Story. ;)

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

Noticing a lot of judgementalness here...

I've been on both sides.

I used to smoke for a while, but not long enough to pick it up as an addictive habit, apparently.

I am well aware of the issues of smokers supposedly invading the airspace of non-smokers and (surprise!) vice-versa. What I'd like to say is, I suggest tolerance. From both parties. With a little compromise, everyone can go home happy.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

Mary Ellen, Corey, Donna, Saundra, Mis, Tess and the others who posted similar feelings... WORD.

I would just like to mention, that even though I am trying to quit smoking right now and I haven't bought a pack in two weeks, I still have between one and however many cigarettes a day because I LIKE TO SMOKE. It relaxes me, I do actually like the taste (but NOT the aftertaste, and therefore always have gum around) and I am still addicted. In addition to the considerations that someone above mentioned, even in a house where people are smoking, I will ask if it is ok if I light one up, too. And to all the high and mighty people around who have been bitching, please set up a big ladder and use it to get over yourself. And since other people have already made points regarding what you guys have said, I won't go back into it. I also wanted to ask you one question, though: Pamie has written on the link to this forum: this forum isn't for everybody, it's for all you sexy smokers. If you aren't a smoker, why did you bother to go in? And once you did, why did you decide to bash everyone that smokes for no reason? We aren't bad people, we have an addiction. People see that alcoholics and heroin addicts and coke heads need to get help, because they are addicted, and yet there doesn't seem to be such a stigma attached to them, and people don't seem to be as personally insulted by it... OK, if you don't want to kiss a smoker: DON'T. If you would rather pluck out your eyebrows: BE MY GUEST. It's YOUR CHOICE. Just like smoking is OUR CHOICE. Ok, I am done now.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

I'm currently working in a lab studying addictive behavior, and recently started dating a smoker (whom I am trying to encourage to quit without being overly nagging about it). So, I've been thinking a lot about these issues lately.

It seems to me that the issues of smoking being "cool" or "sexy" are some of the reasons why people start smoking. I've heard many smokers say that they enjoy smoking, but I don't think that most people really enjoys it the first time--they make an effort to acquire a taste for it because they think it's cool or because all their friends do it or whatever.

I think, in general, our society has a disdain for people who are addicted to anything. However, nicotine is unique among drugs of abuse in that being addicted to it doesn't usually cause any serious short- term deleterious effects for the user, such as job loss or serious family problems. Cigarettes are certainly dangerous, but for most people the health effects aren't experienced until many years down the road.

I think for this reason it's easy for people who smoke cigarettes to rationalize their habit, but I also think it leads non-smokers to feel the need to engage in a little hyperbole to make their point sometimes (I've seen evidence of both in the posts here thus far).

If you smoke, there is a very strong (but not 100%) chance that it will shorten your life. Knowing this, is it possible to rationalize having a smoking habit that makes you feel good? Many smokers would say that it is worth it, but it's hard to know if someone who is addicted to a drug is really capable of making such a decision.

I strongly doubt that there is anyone in our society who is unaware of the health risks associated with smoking, and I also doubt that restating these facts will have any positive influence on people who are addicted to nicotine. It seems to me that the only clear answers are to try to prevent kids from starting smoking in the first place, and to be as supportive as possible of smokers who want to quit. Other than that, I really don't know what the right thing to do is.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

re: anti-smoking vitriole

Cigarette smoke makes me ill, quite literally. It doesn't take long for it to give me a headache, and it can even trigger a migraine. Before the anti-smoking laws, smokers felt free to light up wherever they wanted to. In the study carrel next to me at university, in the office where I worked, in the line up at the bank -- absolutely anywhere. It was up to me to either leave, or suffer through it. This leads me to believe that smokers are completely inconsiderate - it's only after laws were put in place that they stopped smoking in my face. And they still feel free to do it in bus shelters, in bars, and wherever it's still legal (and even some places that it's not).

That's why I don't like smokers. To those who are considerate, rest assured we don't mean you when we say that, so there's no need to be offended.

And smokers still get all indignant when you suggest they shouldn't smoke in bars... it's been a big fight in BC lately. (It was banned for a while, but the law was struck down. A new law is in the works.)

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

I could basically cut and paste almost everything Saundra posted right here. I consider myself to be a very considerate smoker. Sometimes (like right now) I get sick of it - it doesn't taste good anymore and I hate the smell, so I'll put my pack away for a week or two and when I feel like a smoke again I'll pick it back up. Normally I'm not a heavy smoker - maybe 5 - 10 a day.

I can't understand why more people haven't said "I smoke because I like to"! There's nothing like opening up a fresh pack of Port Royal or Drum and smelling the fresh tabacco. Of going through the motions of rolling the cigarette and lighting it up. Of drawing it in - enjoying the taste! - and exhaling. Especially on a cold night. Or with a glass of bourbon. Or a cup of coffee. I don't need to smoke, as such. I guess I'm probably addicted. But I like it.

Sometimes I can't understand other smokers. People who light up over dinner - how can they savour the taste of a great meal? Or those who go to the beach and light up - not able to fully appreciate the wonderful smell of the ocean! But then again maybe they can appreciate it better with a smoke. Who knows?

We have to be considerate because our smoking DOES affect other people - I especially hate it when adults smoke with kids in the room - but if you take the time to be considerate around others, then go ahead, enoy!

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2000

You guys are crackin' me up.

I don't smoke. I never have. When I was younger, I was too scared my parents would kill me and now, I don't even want to think about how expensive it is...and I gotta have shoes, man!

Several of my friends smoke....several relatives.....some ex boyfriends. But never....not one time...have any of them ever smoked in my car without asking, smoked in my house without asking (except for my Uncle Andrew 'cause he's so cool, he can get away with shit like that)....in fact, I can't think of any smoker I've ever been around that hasn't asked "do you mind?" before they light up.

Maybe it's because I live in Smalltown, USA, but damn, you guys have been around some inconsiderate people.

I hate the fact that I have "smoke hair" when I get home from a bar or whatever.....and I wear contacts, so the smoke kills my eyes....but I don't think shouting "death to all smokers" is such a grand idea, either.

damn.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2000

i wear contacts, too. i am a smoker.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2000

Damn. I knew I shouldn't have looked at this forum, because I knew I'd find all those predictable posts from people following the current moralistic anti-smoker frenzy. And there's just nothing in the world that makes me want to light up quite so much as self- righteous morons. I used to wonder how the masses could get so blindly whipped up by a popular trend that things like witchhunts and Prohibition could come to pass. It's easy enough to see it, here.

Myself, I quit months ago. I'm glad I don't smoke, for all the obvious reasons that people have mentioned -- health, the stink of it, wanting to be free of addiction, etc. But guess what? I loved smoking. It was a tremendous pleasure, it helped me get through my day and function well, it gave me something dependable to lean on. Am I better off without it? Overall, yes. But I'm not so blindly dogmatic as to think that there aren't good things about smoking that, for many people, are worth all the bad shit. If they want to smoke and they're not doing it in my face in a small enclosed room, I'm glad they have the choice to do what they want to do and be who they want to be.

- Karen

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2000

through the smoky haze it is difficult to ascertain ugliness. smoke in confined spaces tends to distort shapes. i find stepping outside improves your physical appearence tenfold! i also have to support mel's assertion here. what about the enjoyment? i absolutely love rolling cigarettes and must say that i think i'm pretty talented in doing so! there is nothing like a rollie on a cold night with a cuppa. smoking is sexy a far as i'm concerned IF you disregard the smell, the taste, the health hazard etc. i always come away from some classic film hankering to look as attractive holding a thin white tube as audrey hepburn or catherine deneuve did. on film, admiring from afar, i think some smokers look pretty damn sexy. if u own the ciggie baby...

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2000

I was a weird fairweather smoker. Never got addicted, never smoked with nonsmokers, never minded when people smoked around me when i wasn't smoking. I made friends over smokes. I DID think it was cool. It was! Not being addicted afforded me the luxury of smoking only when I had the coolness urge: on the roof of my friend's apartment building, sitting with my legs dangling out the window of my 4th floor dorm room in London, standing on the corner of Fifth Avenue and 14th Street smoking a quick one before going back to work.

Not being addicted made all the difference. I didn't feel guilty about having to fulfill a need, or ashamed at being weak. I lived healthy the whole time I smoked. Even my college roommate, Miss Volleyball and Swim Team Athlete Gabby Reese Lookalike, smoked occasionally. She and I would whip out a bottle of wine and a pack of Marb lights.

I did it for the swimmy head, the feeling of doing something even when I was doing nothing. I did it because it goes with a cup of coffee or a beer. I did it cause it's fun to stand there before class smoking and surveying and running into people and giving away smokes and bumming smokes. I did it cause it's fun to drive fast and ash out the window. I did it cause it's fun to perfect your flick.

I did it cause it was effortless to pick up and drop. Not everyone is that lucky.

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2000

I'm one of the lucky ones, too, at least so far. I have been a social smoker for 5 years now. At one point, when I lived in Madrid, I was going out 3-4 nights a week and smoking all night-- maybe like 5-10 cigs a night, dark tobacco, and still didn't become addicted. One day while I was there, I was walking home from school and thought how nice it would be to light up-- I didn't, because I realized that would be the start of an addiction for me. Other than that, I've never had the compulsion to smoke when I'm not drinking or smoking weed. I started because I liked the little extra kick that I got when I was drunk but starting to sober up, or if I couldn't afford any more drinks. After all this time, I really don't get that kick unless I smoke full-strength cigs, which I try not to do. It does give you something to do if you're waiting for a friend or need something to occupy you for a little while. What I really don't get is the desire to have a smoke right when you get up in the morning. That's some hardcore addiction that could compell you to begin your day by breathing in toxic fumes.

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2000

Ok, returning to the ORIGINAL topic of conversation here, the fact of the matter is that smoking probably can look slightly cool, but it does age your skin and make you look generally "unhealthy" if you do it for years and years and years.

The important factor here is that these "sin bins" are in airports. It's easy to look cool and attractive when you are a twenty one year old hot college student smoking a cigarette. It's a lot harder when you are a thirty eight year old balding businessman who has spent the last two weeks hopping between three cities trying to put together some sort of big sale.

I mean, I'm making assumptions here, I dunno who the other people were in the "sin bin", but that's just a guess.

It's funny, my old roommate admitted that he smoked because it made him feel like John Wayne, and he thought it was something everyone should do. It was all about being cool. I thought it was funny. It made me want to smoke. All the smelliness and the coughing kept me from ever starting though.

When I was younger I went through my vitriolic antismoking thing, because as considerate as all the members of this forum are, the fact of the matter is I hate seeing people with the "the world is my ashtray" mentality, I hated having to cover for other people at work when they went on smoke breaks, etc.

I think folks can definitely put too much energy into this, on either side. It's sad that most college students don't care that their sweatshirts are made with slave labor (and will mock those trying to do something about it) but will raise holy hell if they think their right to smoke or drink is threatened in any way. I think when bar waitstaff organize around a health and safety issue it is flat-out wrong for smokers to talk about their "right" to engage in the destruction of other people's health. Workers have the right to safe workplaces. Period.

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2000

Back to the original topic as well. . . I think if you look around the airport, you'll see an interesting cross section of the populace, and the people outside the sin bins, as a whole, are no more attractive than the people inside them. You just get to see the smokers all penned up in an aquarium rather than loping around individually.

There's some equation about the quantity of people intersecting with the density of their dispersion equalling out to a total visual estimation in there, but I flunked pre-algebra twice and am not about to try to map it out. :)

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2000

Okay, much of what I have to say has already been said, but hey, I like to throw my two cents in as much as the next guy, so here goes: I smoke. I like it. It's fun for me. It doesn't have to be fun for you. I fully support the rights of non-smokers to have their own breathing space, to not have to deal with our trash, to eat their tofu or whatever as much as they want to. Personally, I am aware of the consequences of smoking (as anyone who is not blind, deaf and dumb is) and I choose to smoke in spite of them, based on the theory that NO ONE knows when their life will end, not even the super-jogger- vegetarian-vitamin-popping-clean-air-freak of all time...they could get hit by a bus tomorrow and i could live til i'm 90. Or the other way around. I fully intend to enjoy every precious second I have, and part of that enjoyment I derive from smoking. The pleasure of it is marred only by those who think that because I am addicted to cigarettes, that I thereby deserve to have my right to choose what I do taken from me. That I am less than them because my choice differs from theirs. That they have the right to insult, nag, and hurt me because their lungs are cleaner than mine. Maybe. I deal with crap from non-smokers EVERY day. I sit in the smoking section, blowing my smoke innocently into the separate air vent, and non-smokers SITTING IN THE SMOKING SECTION feel the need to bitch me out and tell me that cigarettes are bad for me. This is waaaay across the line in my opinion. I don't go over to the non-smoking section, light up and say "Hey, damn it! Everyone look over here! You should all start smoking because smokers are just way cooler than you! They don't butt in to your business (no pun intended). They don't insult and degrade you for your choice...so obviously they are happier, more open-minded and more in favor of freedom for everyone." I don't go around preaching at people about their choices, and I don't like being preached at about mine. And one last thing - basic psychology says that the more you tell someone NOT to do something, the more they want to, and will do it. So take a hint.

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2000

To elaborate just a tiny bit on my earlier point that smokers are not filthy people....I do need to slip in a bit of vitriol as a non- smoker. (I can't be known as the sweet, nice gal here...)

If you smoke while you drive and you throw your butt out your window, I want to hunt you down and torture you with wooden spoons and Johnny Mathis music. Use your f**king ashtray. I don't care if it smells up your car. Don't throw that thing on the street. Even if you adopt 100 homeless children and animals, I will still hate you for littering.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

Damn straight!

No lie, I was cruising along, enjoying my little drive, and the guy in front of me threw his butt out the window. By some "magic bullet" freak of physics, the butt bounced off the hood of my car, got sucked in my passenger side window and burned a nasty ass hole in my upholstery. I was in utter shock. I could not believe what just happened.

Show some consideration. I am an occasional smoker (i.e., bar-hopping, playing poker, etc.) so I understand that sometimes you just have to have a cigarette. I can identify. But don't fuck up my car in the process.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

I'd just like to say, thank God there's no secondhand caffeine effects, because if I had to give up caffeine while I was on planes, or in somebody else's house or whatever, I think I'd die.

This has nothing to do with the smoking discussion, I was just randomly thinking.

-- Anonymous, May 24, 2000

That's a really good point, Jan. I understand that my smoking might bother other people, which is why I am extremely considerate, especially when around people who don't smoke, or who are eating, or who are sick, or any combination.

But I think that anybody who smokes and isn't aware of how horrible it is for you is either (1) a complete moron or (2) has been living under a rock for the past 40 years. Therefore, when people continue to tell me what I'm doing to myself, it really goes in one ear and out the other... 'cos guess what? I ALREADY KNOW.

And about non-smokers lecturing smokers - do you non-alcoholics go into bars and lecture alcoholics and try to make it illegal for them to own cars? or drink around other people who might be affected by their drinking? I didn't think so. Leave us alone. We know what we're doing to ourselves - we'll quit when (and if) we feel like we want or need to. Until then, we will be more than annoyed if you try to convince us.

-- Anonymous, May 25, 2000

i smoke. i go through periods of liking it an not liking it. i frequently quit for days, but i can never do it for weeks.

i don't like having smoke blown in my face. i don't like being told that smoking is bad for me. i can't stand those sin bins at airports. There's no need to smoke in one of those. The only place i've used them is in Dulles because you can't get outside from any of the terminals.

But, i loved the smoke-free bars in California. It's so nice to come home from a night of drinking and not reek from head to toe. Sure i was smoking those nights, but outside, and it makes a huge difference.

i just wish non-smokers would quit assuming that i'm so much worse-off health-wise than they are. Sure, i smoke, but if you, say, live in New York City, your lungs are likely to be in WAY worse shape than mine.

'Scuse me while i go grab a smoke ;)

-- Anonymous, June 05, 2000

I just think it's funny that the word "smoke" starts to look totally meaningless after seeing it printed 9,000 times.

But seriously, I've noticed at airports that a lot of people go outside to smoke. At the Indianapolis Airport (the one closest to me) there are tons of exits and plenty of places for people to go get their fix on. I've never seen one of these "sin bins," but I'm sure I would enjoy it if I did. Personally, I don't think I would go in one because it makes you look like a caged animal or something.

To contribute to the alternate topic, I am not a regular smoker. There are times, however, that I just want one. I usually try to fight the urge, though, because I never have cigarettes on me and if I try to ask one of my friends for one, this inevitably happens:

Me: Hey, can I have a cigarette?
Friend 1: What?! You want a cigarette?
Friend 2: Mia wants to smoke? Oh, my gosh! Hey, you guys! Mia wants to smoke!
Friend 3: You don't smoke.
Me: I know. But I just want one right now.
Friend 3: You don't know how to inhale.
Me: Yes, I do. Please, just give me the --
Friend 2: Oh, that's so cute! You know how to inhale now! How did you learn?
Me: I don't know. Just please, can I have --
Friend 3: Do you know how to light them yet?
Me: YES! I KNOW HOW TO LIGHT THEM! I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING! I'M NOT 15 ANYMORE! JUST GIVE ME THE DAMN CIGARETTE!

It's altogether annoying. But really, it did take me a long time to learn how. About one out of every three puffs is actually inhaled now. I just don't think I have what it takes. But hey, I can pretend, right?

I don't think that I'm particularly sexy when I smoke, but when my boyfriend lights one up, oohhhh, man. It's on. I think he looks so incredibly sexy with his black hair falling in his eyes and the smoke curling up from his mouth.... rrowrrrr...

-- Anonymous, June 05, 2000

You know, I just read something that really hocked me off and I can't refrain from making a comment. I realize I might get shit for saying this but... well, mis decided to add this little bit of narcissistic information to her post:

The truth is, I am so attractive I need to smoke.

Excuse me, but shut up. All you ever do is talk about how great-looking you are. Every single post you've made has had some shameless plug directed towards your astounding beauty. No one really cares about how some MTV producer wanted you, or how you get hit on all the time at your job, or how you have to beat the men off of you in social situations. Get over yourself.

-- Anonymous, June 05, 2000

Wow. That was brutal.

Um, let's see.

Re: my "shameless plugs"

In this forum, I was trying to be sarcastic.....(note to self....re: sin bin forum...sarcasm not working, try another approach.....or shut up and get over yourself)

As for the MTV guy, I said I had a crush on him, I never said that he was a producer, nor did I say he wanted me. I believe I made some sort of statement about flirting being part of his job, to get the girls to come to the set. I also mentioned that someone told me I had a lisp, I wore a horrible outfit, and my father told me that I looked fat on t.v. (I really need to be careful how wonderful I try to make myself sound)

I don't remember ever talking about the guys at my work hitting on me.

As for always talking about how great I look, I went back and read over some of my past posts. Are you talking about my chin hair? My bald spot? My swamp feet? The fact that I use to be overweight? Because these are all things I have discussed. I did mention some things I liked about myself in the "what's your best feature", but, so did you.

I am not astounded by my own beauty, but I do tend to be very comfortable with myself. I actually even like the way I look. So what? It took me many years to get to this point, I certainly don't owe you any sort of apology. Infact, I have put too much effort in to giving you an explanation. I have to wonder why you even care. I bother you? You don't like my posts? Don't. Read. Them.

Now if you will excuse me, I think I will go look in the mirror, or something.

-- Anonymous, June 05, 2000

I don't think you were being sarcastic.

-- Anonymous, June 05, 2000

Now, now, ladies. This is just a forum.

-- Anonymous, June 05, 2000

And let's keep it on topic, or just take it to e-mail, okay? Thanks.

I'm gonna go have a smoke. (and you people who hate smokers seem to like me okay. Is that because you've never smelled me? I smell pretty good, I gotta tell ya.)

-- Anonymous, June 05, 2000

Pamie, you can go ahead and delete my rant if you want. I am just in a PMS-y cranky funk and just felt like bitching at someone. Sorry, mis.

-- Anonymous, June 06, 2000