Seriously, why do women hate other women for success? Why do women assume that women in power must have slept their way or are just ice-queens?

Why do we pick on other women over their looks when we can't stand to be treated that way?

Why do we hate women we've never met?

Why do I always lose close girlfriends over some boy? Either he liked the wrong person or she thought I was trying to steal her guy.

Why do women hate each other before they'll hate a man?

This question is too hetero for what I meant. I assume this happens in lesbian couples as well, and I can't even imagine what that must be like.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Answers

i know! what happened to sisterhood? i think that if we stood together shoulder to shoulder, no one could knock us down and we could rule the world! actually, that's total fact and that's why "the man" keeps us down... just say no to old white men

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

It's not just men that women are jealous over, either. I have a girlfriend who is suspiciously jealous of a young woman whom we recently folded into our friendship. The new friend and I hit it off really well, and since then, the original friend has been quite cold to me. I don't get it. Doesn't adding that third personality compound the friendship instead of detracting from it?

I have had women tell me that they feel awkward hanging out with me because I am too attractive. I don't find this a compliment. It makes me not want to go out with them because I don't want to feel like I am in some kind of unwanted, unwarranted competition. And I have heard more than one person say, "It's not men that women dress up for when they go out, it's other women." I agree. It is in part due to a desire to feel superior, I think. To be able to cat about another chick.

I have very few female friends who are confident in themselves, and who are therefore confident in our friendship. But those I do have I cherish above all others. They are a joy to hang out with. The others, I inevitably feel dragged down in some way. I still love them, but with a sense of reservation and even sadness.

And there are those women in power who would like to keep other women down. Why not help the next woman up once you're there?

Girls, women, ladies... it's us, remember? Fight the good fight. Cry the same tears. Laugh from a common stronghold. Geez... don't start cat fights with your sisters.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

I don't hate women, I have lots of women friends. That being said, I generally prefer the company of men. I definitely prefer working for men. I even prefer living with men. In my experience, women are just a little too catty and self-obsessed for me -- their self-esteem issues stress me out to no end. I like to be straightforward, say what I mean, get things on the table. When I have conflicts with women (I'm thinking past roommates, bosses, childhood friends, all of them), I like to talk very factually and not coddle people for their emotional hang-ups.

If I tell you that you don't look fat in your new outfit, and you shoot back with "Well, that's not what everybody said in elementary school when they were calling me 'Fatty Patty Lardass,'" or whatever, I'm going to get really tired of you really fast.

I don't mean to sound insensitive -- if somebody hurts one my girlfriends, I am all over that -- I'm very loyal and will console my girlfriends all night long, if necessary. But sometimes women just wear me out! Plus, I'm crude and potty-mouthed and like to crack jokes at your expense -- so you need to be able to fire back at me, not hold a grudge.

Geez, I sound like a bitch. I'll come back later and answer the question in a nicey-nice way.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Girl Power? It went the way of large brests, outrageous outfits and platform shoes when the Spice Girls finally died. It was a marketing scheme to sell records and make teenage girls dress badly.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

In my view, there are women, and then there are girls. "And the girls have gots to go!" Girls give women a bad name. And I mean girls, in that they haven't evolved past that stupid jr high catty bullshit.

My only experience is the "losing girlfriends b/c of some guy," except we didn't stop being friends for more than a couple of days or so. Basically she didn't want me to date her male friend, and I did. It wasn't jealousy, she just didn't want things to get "weird."

Otherwise I'm just a misogynist, as the first paragraph indicates. Ha ha, no seriously, my closest friends are like 90% women, but a lot of times I do think the "girls" are in charge of the subjugation....

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Laural has a pretty good point. Grown-up people, men and women, get beyond pettiness, work with and not against each other, and behave like...well, like grown-ups. Picking on each other, hating people we haven't even met because of how they look, jealousy - that's the politics of the sandbox.

I don't know why so many women, or girls, or female-type persons behave the way they do towards members of their own sex. I was kind of hoping you younger women would behave better towards each other than members of my generation did. I guess not, and it makes me sad, for all of us.

I don't have an answer to your valid questions, pamie. I really wish I did.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

My heart's been broken more times by women/girls than by men/boys. Not in a romantic way, but in that complete betrayal of trust kind of way.

I expect some of it's my fault for expecting more from my female friends than I do from my male friends. I expect them to understand that my feelings will be hurt if our third-grade mock Miss America pageant ends with me winning only "Best Speller," or if they confess that they believed some guy over me in the question of whether or not we had sex in high school, or if they harbor a not-so-secret obsession with my boyfriend and talk constantly to other friends about whether he feels the same way about her, and on and on... Because I feel like they understand me, when they're mean I assume that it's on purpose.

Men have done equally shitty things, but I don't always automatically assume that they are being malicious. I give them the benefit of the doubt (at least once!), because they might not understand. And then we talk about it.

Maybe it's unfair to assume that women understand other women? Maybe we assume too much and communicate too little. My feeling is that we (women in general) should talk more. And I'm not talking about discussing whether our butts look fat in those pants or how some boy hurt us or our "issues"...I'm talking about those kinds of talks that cause you to actually learn another person's thought process. I'm talking friendly arguments over what really interests us. Maybe a little teasing? You know, like we do with our guys, and our guys do with other guys?! It seems healthier than assuming some fictional "sisterhood." And it would make it so much easier to then talk to each other about things like whether we are actually trying to steal each other's men or why we feel like other women's triumphs are somehow taking something away from us (as if there is only a limited pool of potential.)

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

angie, i'm with you. i've been slammed 100 times more by female friends than ever by a man. sure, men can do pretty crappy things, but, as you said, it's hardly ever planned out or purposely done (there are MANY exceptions!). spats with women can happen at the spur of a moment, too, but most certainly can (and often do) evolve later into pre-meditated actions. women can be so catty and cruel.

i also have too high of expectations of people. it's difficult to understand that their sense of loyalty is entirely different from your own, especially when you get to an uncomfortable junction. relationships should never be tit-for-tat, but there's a certain level of courtesy, respect and concern that should be involved, regardless of the gender. i firmly believe that.

so, do i believe there's a "sisterhood" between women? no way! not when you've been jerked around enough times ... you just take what you can get from trustworthy friends of either gender and be happy about those rewarding relationships. it's simply a case-by-case basis.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

You know, this is one thing that, in my experience, improves tremendously as you get older. As I read all your answers, I realized how different things are these days from when I was in my 20's.

The good news is, in my late 30's, the women I found myself around started getting much cooler, more self-assured, and WAY more supportive of each other. Now even the women I know who are very different seem to look for ways to come together with each other rather than tear each other down. They're kinder people; they've been through ups and downs of their own that gave them some perspective and compassion. They've made dumb mistakes, amazing discoveries, endured tragedies, and from all that, they understand that most people are trying their best and that being helpful is better and smarter than being a jerk.

When I was in my teens and twenties, most of my friends were guys -- now a fair number still are, but it's the women who save the day for each other. And I'm also seeing a wider age range among my women friends, from the mid-20's (whose bodies I am jealous of, okay) to the seventies (who are so wise and radical, they give me great hope).

So hang in there -- this is one of the great secrets of getting older, women just get cooler and cooler as they age.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Well, let's see. I don't always have very close friends that are women. These friendships always dissolve or disappear or blow up for various reasons. I don't know why. My mom says it's because they are jealous of me. I don't know, I don't see it, but being told that going out with you isn't always fun because the guys only talk to you or you are too pretty or whatever...that sucks. Being objectified sucks. And women do that all the time. I think I have been objectified by girls more than I have guys I can't even tell you how many girls have tried to hurt me because of some guy, or who have hurt me on purpose because of a guy.

On the flip side, I want to have fun. I'm not only a woman, I am a girl, a chick... It's all these facets to womanhood that make us fun. Why can't we all realize that and stand together agaist the images force fed to us by others? And I wish I had an answer for these questions, Pamie, I really do...

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

There's another twist to this, as well: women, by and large, can't stand another woman who is opinionated. Granted, there are some women who rail against the "keep quiet and make sure your hat's on straight" directive by being more rude and abrasive than most men, but honestly, if a woman is direct and has an opinion, women will jump all over her for being a bitch, whereas a man who expresses the same opinion in the same tone will get the benefit of the doubt.

You don't have to look much further than the online journal community for proof, but it happens everywhere.

Actually, if you think about it, how often does anyone use the word "opinionated" about a man? I guess it's assumed that men will have strong opinions, but a woman who doesn't waffle and say, "Oh, well, I think everyone has a valid point here ..." is a bitch at worst, opinionated at best.

It makes me very tired. My parents forgot to tell me I was supposed to check my brain at the door when I hit adulthood.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

I think I've read more about sisterhood than experienced it. From primary school with petty boy jealosy ("how come he talks to her??? she's way pathetic") to recent snobbery ("because"), I just. Don't. Get it. I tend to trust guys more with my friendship now because I've learnt through experience that what you see, is what you get. And they accept me for who I am. It takes up too much emotional stress to try to go through the whole what-now? factor with girlfriends. There are always exceptions to this, but it just takes a lot more to earn a girl friends trust these days.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Beth: yes. Hear hear.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Mans observation, May not be valid.....

Could it be that young girls are taught to compare them selves to others? Not only that they are not given/tough tools or processes to overcome the inadequate feelings. I mean , you seem to have a problem with women in magazines and movies that you could not possibility measure up to when they have an army of people to make them look like that but you still feel inferior. Is it that you just dont allow your self to analyze the real person that you see and accept that as a human that person is no more perfect than you are, just different. I have never met a lady that didnt have something that was marvelous about them.

Men are compared with other men, but we usually are given tools to try to overcome the feeling of inferiority. You work to run faster, have more girlfriends, a faster car, make more money, or any number of things that you have a realistic possibility of attaining and excelling in. That is what you base your self-image on. May be good or bad. Many men allow their egos to take over when they think they are on top and forget what they were doing it for. Some times its self delusion but all men think that they are the best at something so in there minds they may see a guy that is portrayed as the ultimate something, but you say to your self "Yea but can he......". We also believe most of the complements that our loved ones give us. Most women will not believe they look/act/smell/think well unless they get several opinions. Why is that?

Also as most men get older we find something that some one else dose very well as either Very cool or non-interesting. Then we evaluate whether we would be good at it, then work to place our selves as Alpha male or accept a subordinate role. We accept our limitations and go on to the next thing we think is cool.

Just thoughts from an outsider that can not possibility know what women really think.

Don

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

Why are women hard on other women? Because of basic feminine insecurity.

A woman who is happy with herself feels no need to be hard on others, and can instead be gracious, appreciative and supportive of other women.

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

Random thoughts:

1. Asking why power flows around women in high positions instead of through them (see this< /a> Salon article) is like asking why black people don't own 10% of the wealth in the US. It's terribly frustrating and illogical.

2. Sometimes when a woman gets to be a member of the boys' club, she has so much fun with the gender ratio that she doesn't want to let other women in. It's particularly fun if she was never a bombshell and wouldn't otherwise get all that attention. Not that I would know or anything.

3. A couple of times I worked in a woman-dominated company and it was a constant struggle to avoid getting sucked into the clothes competition and exchanges of personal information that could be used against you later. We practically had a group menstrual calendar. Most of my great, supportive, normal working relationships with other women were in mixed offices where we felt we were fighting feminist or mostly-feminist battles: junior reporters (mostly women) against senior reporters (all men) or tech writers (mostly women) against programmers (mostly men). I wish it didn't have to be that way. Can't we just all, of all sizes and colors and shapes of skin, get along - and without anyone feeling trodden on?

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000