I noticed in another thread a mention of personal safety. I think everyone is concerned about various aspects of this around the homestead. We were burglarized about three years ago, while the children & I were out grocery shopping. We took the dog with us. It's weird, but I wasn't feeling comfortable about going out that day but decided to anyway. Passing the neighbor's house, I commented about how it was obvious no one was home. At the end of the road I thought maybe I should take the dog back home. Shrugged off my feelings as being silly and went on. Came back after a couple of hours to find the back door busted in.... What I am thinking of is what can we do to make our property less vulnerable and vulnerable looking? I hate to make it a fortress, but maybe some of you have some ideas on what can be done or what you have done. We do have a farm security light. I would appreciate your feedback on this! Jean

-- Jean (schiszik@tbcnet.com), May 11, 2000

Answers

We own 2 male german shepherd dogs who are very good at protecting the place! They have a "dogs' door" to go in and out into a fenced in area any time they choose to. We allow them to have access to the whole house when we are gone. Even the meter reader knows to knock on our door and asks us to put the dogs in the house before going any further. We've never had a problem with them biting anyone. When we are gone from the house the dogs are on duty. Should anyone be stupid enough to try to enter while we're gone, that will be their problem! Men in prison will tell you a large dog almost always will keep them away. Maybe you should look into getting another dog. Next time you go for a walk, take one with you and leave one behind to protect your place.

-- Pat (pmikul@pcpros.net), May 11, 2000.

Jean, even a fortress can be burglarized. Check with your nearest law enforcement office. They can tell you some tips, like lights on timers, thorny shrubs under windows, how to beef up door locks and frames, but these ideas don't always help even in town. Our problem is that we live where burglars have plenty of freedom to break into our homes. The dog might have been harmed or killed if you'd left her at home. Burglars have lots of time and privacy to steal your belongings when you live in the country.

One of our doors actually does have a cheap lock, someday we might find the key for it. We take better care of the building most of our hand tools are in. We'd rather replace the TV and computer than our hand tools. Take photographs. Consider engraving a code number on things like TVs and computers. Dogs can be a help, but a single dog is easy to stop. We keep our vehicles moving around. Even when I was too sick to leave the house this winter, my husband would go out and start and move my van. Switch vehicles so any people watching the place can't be sure if you are home alone, or your husband is. We'll sometimes park one or both of our everyday vehicles pretty much out of sight, and yet we'll still be outside working. To anyone watching the place, it helps make them a little more unsure about who is home and when.

Lights on motion detectors can be troublesome in the country, livestock and wildlife can set them off. But they are something to consider. Alarm systems can be beaten, many rural law enforcement agencies aren't especially interested in having the alarm feed into their office, but if you can bear the cost (and monthly fees) they can be a big help. But too many false alarms (easily caused by children) can result in your alarm being ignored or turned off. Discuss it with law enforcement before investing the money.

Probably the best and most aggravating defense we have against trouble is nosey neighbors. If you can see or hear a neighbor's place, arrange a simple code with them. If either one of you notices or hears something odd, you can either call law enforcement or call the other person. Use something simple and fast-answer the phone G'day if you're not in Oz. Keep an eye on the places you pass. A passing meighbor might have realized that you were gone and yet there was a strange car there.

Animal shelters are crammed with unwanted adult dogs who have just hours to live. Get a couple more dogs if you can. Vary your routine. You may be positive there isn't anyone watching your house, and there probably isn't. They're sitting in town watching you pull into the grocery store parking lot every Thursday about 1pm.

If your local newspaper prints items about who is doing or has done what, make sure they don't print "Jean and her family will be going to visit her family next week", wait until you get back before submitting anything to the paper. An old burglar's trick is to watch the newpapers for announcements of funerals and weddings. Pretty safe bet that family members' home will be empty during those. So have somebody there. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), May 11, 2000.

My buddies at the prison (inmates) tell me all the time that the single most effective deterrent to them trying to rob your house is a large barking dog, preferably a couple of Dobermans...I did a little poll just last week and 100% of the inmates reported that they will pass a house or a farm with BIG dogs...it was interesting that they ALL fear Dobermans the most...I would have thought Rottweilers.They also said that if somebody wants what you have badly enough, that nothing will deter them..even big dogs, but it would have to be something pretty good that could not be stolen elsewhere for less trouble....this poll included professional burglers, heroin addicts and three armed robbers..oh yeah, one bank robber too !!! I spoke with over 400 inmates so I think it was a good source !!! Sometimes it helps to work at a maximum security prison..They said the second largest deterrent was outside lights with no shrubs to hide in or around...They all advised to keep your GARBAGE where it cannot be seen.New appliance purchases like computers, VCRs and TVs get stolen alot because the guys say that folks advertise their new purchase by putting the boxes out where they can be seen for trash pick up!!! Who would have thought????Several guys said that they regularly drive through neighborhoods on trash pick up day to look for boxes !!!!

-- Lesley Chasko (martchas@gateway.net), May 11, 2000.

We live in an area well known for drug dealers, Meth labs and rip-off artists. We have 4 farm dogs that are always here but none are agressive. We are well armed and the locals know it. We have 2- trucks and a car (for 2 people) there is always one visible even when we are both gone. We leave lights on, there is a radio going all the time in the workshop. I have a new neighbor and he is doing some major deck building on his house, there is a lot of Redwwood lumber in his yard, twice last week someone came late at night and tried to steal that lumber. He has not dogs but the theaf did not get the wood.

-- Hendo (OR)r (redgate@echoweb.net), May 12, 2000.

94 lbs of German Shepard/Wolf cross, aka Hazard. He rarely barks, but his partner-in-crime, the 15 lb. Sheltie, barks his fool head off anytime someone, or something comes down the road, then Haz will meander out for a look. The census guy didn't want to get out of his truck for some reason....

The gun rack in the pick-up doesn't hurt your image any, neither do the guys out target shooting in the gully. Being well known in the neighborhood gun shop can be a deterrent to local thugs (as well as to teen-age boys hanging around your daughter!). Did I mention the gun rack handily located between the front and side doors - hey, YOU may not call it decor....

Pole light on a photovoltaic switch, more vehicles than drivers, 1 person working day shift, 1 working night shift, 1 in school and 1 retired means SOMEBODY is usually home. House doors locked at night, if I'm asleep during the day, and the rest of them leave, they will usually also lock the doors. Bentley the Sheltie in the shed (barking fool!) at night, doors locked when we leave.

Now, if I could just figure out how to mount a gun rack in my Neon....

-- Polly (tigger@moultrie.com), May 12, 2000.

A sad fact of life is--75% of all home burglaries are inside jobs. Someone you know or let in your house had something to do with it. They may be friends of your children or in-laws. Not too many thieves enter a house without an expectation of what the value of the take is. I agree with all the above posts except --I hate lights on my property. I myself use 4th generation night vision to see at night. I firmly believe in setting the tone for a confrontation. Let them see the guns, let them hear the automatic gunfire. Tell strangers that your just itching to kill someone on your land. Believe me rumour flys faster than a fighter jet ! This deters most people.

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), May 12, 2000.

We have a neighbor that shoots about 50 rounds every Sunday, sometimes more often. I hate listening to it, and always wonder where all the small animals, cats mostly, are when he starts up. But I will never, ever drive up the road to his house without an invitation! I am sure the kids around here who feel required to drive 50 mph up the dirt road, enjoy listening to their pounding woofers at 3 a.m. parked by our pasture, and steal the newspapers out of our roadside box (as if they could read them!) feel the same way! Maybe I should get some woofers and some recorded gunfire sounds and play them loudly every Sunday?? We don't have a backstop!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), May 12, 2000.

Sheepish, are you sure your neighbor isn't just playing recorded gunfire sounds!?! LOL!! I don't think we can ever make ourselves completely safe, at some point we have to trust in God to take care of us and ours. But there have been a lot of good points made in this thread. If someone followed most of them, they would probably be as safe as they possibly can be. Though if someone high on drugs breaks into your home, you'd better either have a cannon real handy or a fast way out. I don't understand how anyone with a grain of intelligence left can think it would be all right to legalize drugs.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 13, 2000.

Kathleen, drug addicts do not break into anybody's house when they are 'high"..they break in because they are out of cash, feel sick and shaky and want to steal something so they can sell it and buy the drugs...The notion of the crazed drug addict mindlessly robbing people is a myth...People on meth will become violent and crazy, but that is usually among themselves.

-- lesley Chasko (martchas@gateway.net), May 13, 2000.

No, it isn't totally a myth -- though you are right that they are usually sober when they break in to steal things -- we had some stuff stolen by a druggie when we were in Alaska and were away from the cabin for a few days. And probably when they do break into a house it is somebody they know (i.e. an ex-wife or something). But my husband has been an EMT for over twenty years, and has heard a few stories . . .

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 13, 2000.

Our dogs (6) located in various areas outside the house may discourage burglary, but our geese and poultry are an outstanding alarm system at night. Our best animal deterrent were our yard pigs who even scared the daylights out of a game warden and deputy who wanted to access some abandoned logging roads on our property. They asked if loose pigs were legal ... we figured there was a leash law for dogs but none for pigs. They had to agree but when they pull into our yard, they have the dispatcher call us to come out if we don't see them first. Most visitors tend to wait for us to come out. Also, it doesn't hurt, at least in our small town, to be known for being an avid hunter, as are most of our neighbors.

-- Anne Tower (bbill@wtvl.net), May 15, 2000.

Hummmm,,,, well.... lets see. We had our house broken into just before me moved most of our stuff in and luckly we were not at home at time. I would see cars of teenagers casing out the house. Some guy even tried to take our son, before we got the fence up. Luckly I was out there with my hair up in a big ugly brown hat, and a big Camie Jacket, and a nice large bebee rifle from the UK,,those things just look like a real rifle. Never saw that person around again. Next week I had some of those same Teenagers sat on other side of the road just staring at the house for hours,, guess trying to get the nerve up. Well, in my ugly old gear,, stepped out of the woods, with the bebe rifle,, Boy did they ever peel out fast and left. No, forget the Sheriff,, unless your really rich or something don`t exspect help from them. For the next year I had all kinds of brain dead people case out my house,, but I am always home,, and at that time always had the bebee rifle and ugly outfit on. They finaly gave up. This was a very bad area... But now everyone knows I will carry around protection and am just about always around... I am left alone. But the Llama in the front pasture near the road doesn`t hurt either. They do alarm calls,, and can spit some really nasty stuff,, that smells worse than a skunk,, and is impossible to scub the smell off. Really weird how alot of people are afraid of Llamas!!! :O) Moving your car around too is a very good idea. But I don`t worry about leaving an outside light on. Most always have clouds where I live,, and if they can`t see were they are going so much the better, I always leave stuff about,, so,, well... they could just very well hurt themselves, and make enough nosie to wake me up. Oh,, also never leave a latter out,, they could use that to get into upper story windows,, and never leave your Axe out,, they could use that to get in.

-- Bergere (autumnhaus@aol.com), May 15, 2000.

Jean, I can look back in my life and remember several times when I had a "gut" feeling and ignored it and something bad happened that would not have happened if I'd paid attention to the gut feeling. I'm trying to always act on these feelings. You know what I mean. You had one the morning you were robbed. So far, I still usually ignore the feeling but I'm working on it. Maybe you'd want to do the same. Eagle

-- eagle (eagle@alpha1.net), May 17, 2000.

Ditto to that, Eagle...also, I have to add the dog thing really does work...ours is a big 150# Mastiff/Akita mix...the sweetest doggie ever but man oh man are those teeth big...gives you pause...his "WOOF" makes the windows shake...

-- Betsy (sassyweitzel@yahoo.com), May 17, 2000.

For a great discussion and explanation of gut feelings and lots of safety guidance: check out "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin deBecker. Excellent book, and it really helped me feel less scared and more prepared. He has a website too.

-- Anne (HealthyTouch@hotmail.com), May 17, 2000.

Some good suggestions here! As our area gets more and more developed, I'm sure it is just a matter of time until someone around here gets robbed. We make a point of always locking the front door if we are out back working, as we might not see someone come up from the front. Also, speaking from 6 years as an animal control officer, I can tell you not to under estimate those little dogs! They make a lot of noise, but those are the ones most apt to sneak around and bite you! Of course, folks are more afraid of the large ones, so it doesn't hurt to have a couple. Also, don't leave a note on the door for the UPS, Postal carrier, etc. that you will be away from home, and to leave any packages at the neighbors, etc. Arrange to have someone pick up, or have your mail and newspapers held so you aren't advertising that no one is home by letting them pile up. Even if you are "anti-gun" I think it is a good practice to HAVE a handgun (yes, those of you with children who might have access need to be careful), and know how to use it. Even if you don't think you could ever shoot someone, just knowing how to use it and being able to hold it correctly could deter someone who means to harm you or your family. Jan

-- Jan B (Janice12@aol.com), May 17, 2000.

I feel remiss for not having addressed this thread sooner. But we all get overwhelmed from time to time, do we not? I live in a relatively small town (we THINK maybe 10,000) on the outskirts of a small city (Portland, Me.), that is populated by folks who have been here since before dirt, and others who have just moved in and feel "I'm here! - Close the gates!" We have been in Maine for 38 years, and in our town for 22 years plus. Because I am a weird old bugger (NOT in the dictionary sense!), I have been accepted with more closeness than most of the newer folks. It is more attitude than birthplace. (Having come here from the South [Conn.]). I am sorry for all those digressions, and having explained the local attitude, I must offer the following: I have enough land to have a very safe rifle range, due to size and topography. I invite my gun-toting friends over. We only shoot once every 2 weeks or so. But the close neighbors know this is going to happen, and they encourage it, and sometimes join in. Those a little farther away know what is happening. And the undesireable element knows too, either by auditory ability, or reputation. I have never tried to stifle my reputation as the guy with lots of guns, able to pick the eye out of a mouse at 200 yards, and (I love this) maybe a half bubble off of plumb! The criminal element is, above all else, a den of cowards! Never be intiminated by them! Go for it! And, of course, GL!

-- Brad (homefixer@mix-net.net), May 17, 2000.

Thank you all for your input! I think what makes our home most vulnerable is our circular driveway that comes only about 15ft. from the doors. It's an old farmhouse. Makes it easy to get in and out quickly. We now park a car in front of the door when all of us go away. I like the two doberman idea, but hate the thought of more dogs to feed! We are planning to fence the front of the property with a gate across the driveway eventually. A pain, but worth it we think. We do not have guns of any kind, mostly because we weren't raised around them and have no clue. I would be happy to hear any advice you all may have on that subject, too! Maybe start a new thread! My husband would like to know if any of you have installed any simple alarms on your ground level windows. Any ideas? We do not have air conditioning and to have the windows closed at night when it is hot is unbearable! We live near a town with about 9,000 people and some tiny villages around too. But unfortunately, crime from the big cities & suburbs within a couple hours drive on the highways invades us here. The kids & I were "lucky" the day we were robbed - I got lost (!) driving home from two small towns away and missed the burglar. I might have pulled in without thinking and who knows what might have happened...

-- Jean (schiszik@tbcnet.com), May 17, 2000.

Jean, Should you decide you would like to arm yourself, there are usually places where you can go and take lessons. Gun ranges, and perhaps gun clubs, too (I think... I don't belong to a club) offer lessons and let you rent equipment...i.e.: handgun, ear and eye protection. They also sell ammunition. The instructors all have to be very well qualified to teach, and they don't fool around with joking, goofing off, etc. There is book work and tests, along with actual shooting. The cost is reasonable.

I grew up around guns but never felt comfortable with them. I finally went to classes and passed a couple of levels...enough to have a lot of respect for them, and enough to be competent and pretty accurate.

We don't have children, but still we keep everything locked up whenever anyone is around! Very, very important, obviously.

I wanted to learn to shoot to be able to put an animal out of misery if need be, and to deal with predators. I was thinking mostly of four legged and winged versions of the latter, but you never know...

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), May 17, 2000.

Since I work at home, someone is usually here 24/7, except for the occasional family excursion to Wal-Mart or to Shoney's for dinner.

Dogs are a must!! We have 3 dogs - 2 little dogs (Kady and Millie) and a BIG dog (Rufos). Millie is worthless as a watchdog, but Kady is crazy! She thinks she's 200 pounds of muscle, not her actual 32, and will go after anybody or anything that she doesn't like. Ad Millie will just sit there and watch. Rufos is an excellent guard dog too. We *think* he's shepard, wolf, and collie with a little of something else thrown in, but can't say for sure since he was given to us. Strong too. If he knows you, you're safe. If he doesn't know you, watch out!! I had him on a chain last year while I was working on clearing the back property so I could fence it in, and the preacher from the church down the street came on our property and Rufos snapped the chain like it was a peice of cotton thread (not his collar, but the steel chain). Charged the preacher, and sat between the preacher and the house until I could get there. Preacher moved, he moved. Preacher stayed still, he stayed still. And no, the preacher has never come back...

A gun is a good idea too. I have several, and make no effort to hide the fact that I have 'em and know how to use 'em. If you've never used a gun before, go to the local gun shop and see if the NRA is sponsering a safety class in your area and take it. I think they even sponser a self defense class aimed at women. If I could only have 1 gun, it would be a shotgun. Not only is it a very versatile weapon (shoots everything from bird shot to buck shot to deer slugs), there are a **LOT** of myths about the massive destructive powers of a shotgun that can work to your advantage.

-- Eric Stone in TN (ems@nac.net), May 18, 2000.

Eric, and others, please enlighten me on the myths of shotguns. In my adulthood here in the country I am obviously ignorant of them. Thanks.

-- Anne (HeathyTouch11@hotmail.com), May 18, 2000.

I'm appreciative of shotguns and we always cover them in our home-defense courses (I'm an NRA certified instructor) but they're not the be-all and end-all of defensive weaponry.

Some of the drawbacks of shotguns are:

At typical inside the house distances the spread of the shot pattern from shotguns (even those that are cylinder bore or "no choke") is quite small. From corner to corner in a ten foot room that shot pattern might only be as big as my hand. We've measured many a load of this and that out of a number of shotguns and unless you go to some highly specialized loads which are very questionable from a legal defense viewpoint they all spread more or less the same. That small pattern makes it quite easy to miss, even repeatedly, with the shotgun.

Because the shot pattern is so small at short ranges the shot load strikes nearly as one mass. This means it'll have little problem blowing a hole completely through the two sheets of drywall that comprise the interior walls of a typical modern home. Doesn't matter if it's buckshot or birdshot, at seven feet nearly all of it will go right on through. Always be sure you know what's on the other side of the wall before you pull the trigger.

Shotguns also typically require two hands to functionally use. Now, I'm six feet tall and 240 pounds and can use (and have used) a 12 ga pump shotgun with just one hand, shucking in a new shell and firing again. Not terribly practical but a big enough or skilled enough person can do it in extremis. An autoloader, double or single shot doesn't require two hands to work them but unless you have very strong wrists you'd really, really want to be able to hold it with both hands.

Using the shotgun outside presents the opposite problem of using it inside. Once you get beyond about fifty yards in distance the shot pattern expands so much that you might fire a load of buckshot directly at your target and have the pellets hit all the way around what you shot at and never actually have one hit the target. More likely you might only have just one or two pellets hit with little or no positive effect.

The last real problem with a shotgun is the felt recoil. Now, this is mostly a matter of training and mindset. I've watched many a woman shooter spend all day on a trap/skeet range with a 12 ga go through five or six boxes of field loads and be no worse the wear than any of the men. They've been properly taught and they've got experience. An inexperienced person who is not used to a shotgun, particularly if they're using a heavy load, might think a bomb went off in their hands. This can be further mitigated by going to a smaller bore gun such as a 16 or 20 gauge or a .410 but you give up shot mass and shot size with every step to a smaller bore you take.

When I ran the range for my local Sportsman Association I'd frequently have men (virtually *always* men, seldom a woman) tell me they'd just bought a shotgun for home defense (generally for their wives to use) and could they pattern the gun? I'd say "sure" and we'd go to the appropriate range. Before they broke the gun out I'd say "I bet it's a folding stock or pistol grip only gun and you have some sort of magnum ammunition for it." Four out of five times they'd get a sheepish grin and would admit to having exactly that. Well, they'd shoot three rounds or so and then we'd discuss what it is they really needed to get for their wives to use, namely a shotgun with a non-folding non-synthetic shoulder stock, and NON-magnum ammunition. More importantly, they needed to bring their wives with them to the range so they could use the gun and get some experience! They'd take the gun, their bruised shoulder and go home then. A pistol grip only shotgun and magnum buckshot makes even my wrists hurt!

Now having said all these negative things about a shotgun I'd like to say this about them. A shotgun can be and oft times is an excellent homestead defense weapon but you have to know what you're doing with it and know when and where to use it. If there's *anything* that can put the fear of God in somebody being where they don't have any business being it's the sound of a pump shotgun shucking a shell into the chamber. Within its range there is no weapon that we civilians can legally own that can do more damage with a single cartridge of ammunition such as a load of #1 or 00 12 ga. buckshot.

Like many folks we keep a handgun for our bedroom gun because I can use it one handed in the dark while lying flat on my back. You wear a handgun on your person because it means you have a firearm always at the ready where you can't do that with a shoulder fired weapon like a rifle or shotgun. If I *know* before I go out the door that I'm going to need a firearm it's the shotgun and not the handgun that I'll take outside with me. If I thought it was likely I'd need to take a fairly long shot (more than fifty yards) I'd grab a rifle instead but that's not too common around a homestead. In the field is different and I'd probably put a rifle on a tractor for just in case I got a shot at a coyote or feral dog. Around the house and outbuildings a shotgun has plenty of legs for most anything and I can select either a light field load for taking care of small stuff or step up to serious buckshot for something big. If I were more concerned with two-legged varmints I'd go with one of the new "tactical" reduced-recoil buckshot loads such as Federal makes which will do for a man and all but the biggest dogs.

..........Alan.

The Prudent Food Storage FAQ, v3.5

http://www.ProvidenceCo-op.com

-- A.T. Hagan (athagan@netscape.net), May 19, 2000.