My husband and I are thinking of buying an old 27 acre farm. It has been a dairy farm years ago, has outbuildings and such and good open fields for growing crops. They have grown potatoes, strawberries, peas, etc. over the last 100 years. I thought about raising organic beef and cut flowers as well as various fruits and veggies. It has good frontage to a main road.

It hasn't been run for several years. The owners (it had been in their family for 100 years) said that some people have wanted to subdivide it or use it for commercial business, that would be such a shame. But how does one get started on a farm when it won't produce income for several months to a year? My husband would still work but that would only pay about half the costs.

Any suggestions?

Amy

-- Amy Richards (tiggerwife@aol.com), May 07, 2000

Answers

This is a tuff question. How much do you know about farming ? Where are you located ? My first thought was lease out a 20 acre pasture. I lease from many locals here. I wouldn't bother unless it had 20 acres or more. I grow alpalpha and oats on their properties or assume their tobacco allotments. My second thought was board horses--there is good money in this endeavor ! Let me know more and maybe I can brainstorm a little more. Good luck !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), May 07, 2000.

Amy, I'm with Joel on this one. We're going to need more information. If strawberries were grown at one time, are they still there? You might be able to renovate them for next year. You might be able to find someone to hay the land if you can't rent it out for pasture.

Organic beef will not be something to get into immediately if you need cash. Beef cattle need time to grow and depending on what your organic laws are where you live, you probably are going to need time to produce your own forage and grains or line up a reliable supplier.

What ever you do, it is going to take time. If you need money now, possibly you can cut your expenses to the bone and then some. It may be worth it to go through a couple of savagely lean years to get this place.

Depending on where you live, it is most likely too late to start flower seeds and too late to find a wholesaler who will deal with you. You might start watching for the retail sellers' closeouts to get cheaper plants.

What sort of experiences do you two have with gardening, farming, and stock? There's a learning curve with any of this, plus you're new to this particular piece of land. I don't recommend counting on income from this land for at least a couple of years. If you can make some money next year, or even yet this year, what a pleasant surprise. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), May 07, 2000.

Amy, unless you have experience and contacts, you can't count on any income from the farm for at least a year or two -- as Gerbil said, there is quite a learning curve to almost any farming endeavor. Beef cattle are expensive to get started with, in addition to taking time and a lot of experience. The fastest return would be the flowers you mentioned, then strawberries -- you could still plant this year, but are very unlikely to have any income before next year. Unfortunately, what will happen if you take on the farm with a mortgage, is that you will have to work off the farm to pay for the place, and won't have the time you need to do the work on the place. Try to get debt-free before you start farming -- you can raise most of your own food, and require very little cash income that way, though it would still be a while before you could count on making all your income from the farm. I've got to stop as a thunderstorm is coming through, but good luck, and stay in touch -- this forum is one of the most helpful places you'll find.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 07, 2000.

A friend of mine has a large barn. They store peoples boats, etc. for the winter. The same customers come back every year. They charge so much per month and have always received enough to pay their real estate taxes. That's got to be worth something!!

-- Pat Mikul (pmikul@pcpros.net), May 07, 2000.

One thing that will help is to keep VERY GOOD records of all you spend getting the place ready. This includes buying seed, plants, equipment, etc. When it comes time to file your income taxes (Yes, Joel, I hear you groaning!)you can file as a farm even if you don't make any money. This will help you probably get a larger refund or reduce your tax expenditure next year. You have to "Attempt to make a profit 2 years out of 7" at least in running a horse ranch. It is up to the IRS, according to a former IRS agent who wrote an article recently in Western Horseman, to prove that you weren't attempting to make a profit. As long as you are working toward that eventuality, that might help you meet some of the start expenses. Just do a lot of research, ask a lot of questions, and take it one step at a time. Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress! My husband and I were also looking at an old farm that was going to be auctioned off last weekend, but a relative of the deceased owner filed a "cease and desist order" stopping the sale for now, until it goes before the judge. I was so dissappointed, as I really had plans for that place. I am still keeping my fingers crossed that it goes up for sale, and that we are able to get it. Jan B

-- Jan B (Janice12@aol.com), May 07, 2000.

You folks have been so helpful!

I don't know anything about running a farm but I know a lot about growing flowers. The farm does have some current income from boarding a few horses and selling hay. There aren't any strawberries left but a few very old, but producing apple and pear trees.

I was figuring stuff out tonight and think a few hundred a month should help us scrape by, and I think I am being realistic not expecting to make money for two years.

I have an appointment to talk with someone from the Farm Services Agency (I think that's the right name) and they said they have help specifically for beginning farmers.

The only debt we would have is the mortgage. The price of land in Western Washington in commuting range from my husband's job is outrageous.

Amy

-- Amy Richards (tiggerwife@aol.com), May 07, 2000.

Amy, if you know flowers...great. Actually, flower farming is probably one of the most profitable ventures you could engage in. Like any new endeavor, it will take a while to turn a profit. It will cost you more than you thought, take longer than you thought and be harder than you imagined. But then, thats what were all doing and we love every minute of it.

You can learn as you go and add other ventures as you decide waht you want to focus in on. Gather as much info as you can.

-- Derrick Comfort (dcomfort@ccnmail.com), May 08, 2000.

Do just try one new thing at a time, though -- and find your market before you plant your crop.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 09, 2000.

Buying a farm- what should I grow?

The wise answer is "kids" or "healthy and old." If you are betting on anything from a agribusiness farming approach you will likely be disappointed. Niche marketing is the fiscal answer and that has to be determined by the needs of your own local area.

-- William in WI (thetoebes@webtv.net), May 10, 2000.

Just a short one here -

IMHO, read all the Gene Logsdon you can find. Might be useful...

j

-- j (jw_hsv@yahoo.com), May 10, 2000.

When I was a kid, our family went to a place called Edward's apple orchard every year.You could pick your own apples, or buy them already picked for a higher price. They also grew pumpkins and squash, and sold a lot of those, some were really big! They had a little restaurant where they serevd apple doughnuts(homemade) apple pie, apple cider,and in the barn where the squash,pumpkins and apples were,you could also buy jars of applesauce, jellies,apple butter, I think they also had a few crafts and stuff. There was a petting barn for the kids,and a shed half full of straw for the kids to play in-we thought it was great! I asked my dad recently if the place was still in business,to my surprise, he said they had expanded and added more features! If you have good road frontage, maybe you could do something like that. We grow squash(winter type) on a small scale,and make a little money off of it.It sells well in the fall,pumpkins,too,and stores well for a few months.There is no trying to get it to the market before it wilts or molds problem.We sell ours for 35 cents a pound, and usually make a hundred dollars or more even though we keep about half of the harvest for ourselves and the goats. We grow it in the garden, so you could probably grow a field of it and get some kind of return from it.And, it's not too late to plant it yet.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@transport.com), May 10, 2000.

Dear Amy:

Does this 20 acres have any trees on it at all? If so, any Christmas trees. These could be cut and sold. Other types of trees can be used for homeheating to cut down on bills. Also, if you grow corn. I've seen some farmers around here turn them into mazes and charge familes with littles ones for the adventure. Along with selling pumpkins, cider, and petting areas already mentioned. If there is a pond of land are there fish. This could help with dinner expenses a couple times a month. Are there gees, ducks, or deer. My husband and son shot two deer last year. Needless to say, our meat bills went down dramatically. Just a few small ideas to help you folks make it through this rough time. Do you know how to make zucchini bread from squash or have any grape vines for making/selling grape jelly? I used to make grape jelly and was told it was quite delicious. Anyways, let us know how you're doing...

-- Sheila Lutz (glutz43@alltell.net), April 14, 2001.

Hi, Great news about your possible farm!

If you are going to continue to board horses, that can be a good way to create income as long as you have a contract with the owners of the horses which states that you can sell the animals if the owners don't pay the board. I once had a lady run off to Texas and left the cutest little welch pony here. We called her after the board due date and she said she was sending a check. Another month went by, and we called again and the phone had been disconnected. We finally got in touch with some of her relatives and then was told she had left the county and we were still feeding her pony with no pay! But fortunately we did have a contract and instead of having to go to court and sue, we simply sent a certified letter to the last known address and waited the appropriate legal time, then sold the little pony to a neighbor for the back board. Later we found out these same folks had skipped out on their house rent too. No, not all horse boarders are that way, but after having managed a huge stable and my own small one, it only takes a couple of times for that to happen and you end up losing your profit. There isn't a lot of profit to begin with if you count your labor and the feed costs.

I think it is better to lease out the pasture and let the lessee take care of the haying, fertilizer,etc. You may get enough to pay taxes and the land will be improved.

Flowers are great income especially if you can hook up with a local florist (not a big chain type, but the old fashioned mom and pop types)and sell them by the stem, or better yet add some value to the finished product and create speciality arrangements for weddings, etc. Around here a very simple arrangement can cost over $25 dollars or more. There are lots of ways to make money off the farm, just make sure you have a market for what you want to do. Either locally or via the 'net, then you will have a better idea of what types of income you can make.

At any rate, good luck with your potential purchase - I know I have enjoyed my place since I bought it and some years I make money and others I don't - but I still have the farm! Happy Easter!

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), April 15, 2001.

When I was growing up my family had a huge vegetable farm and sold retail in a roadside barn, along with wholesale to markets. My dad tried several types of farming before settling on vegetables-- chickens, dairy--but found veggies to be the most in demand by customers. Have you looked into medicinal herbs? You may find a niche there. There is a Herb Growers and Marketers Network that can be of assist. They have a website but I don't know it offhand.

-- amy (acook@in4web.com), April 15, 2001.