Duane,

It doesnt take a genius to see the meaning behind your euphemism toilet mouth, but rather than throw out see-through restraints, it would be better for you to come out and say what you really think. Not only do you state that I speak ****, but you ignore my e-mail asking for the decency to continue questions presented to me by other members of your forum. Youre a very uncivil and impolite person.

I ask you grant me rectitude to pursue conversation with Lee and others, and not shun me because my words are self-threatening. I would like to bring the heaven/hell debate to the foreground for proper discussion; it would be good if you allow me this opportunity.

Lee - as regard to your last correspondence, I do lack omnipotence from within this discussion board, and so I cant answer every assertion that you have so selectively chosen from my words. Maybe Ill find the time to answer each one individually at a later date; for now, would you (and others) like to participate in the heaven/hell debate that I made mention of in my last message thread?

Warmest regards,

Gavin

-- Anonymous, May 07, 2000

Answers

Gavin:

You have said:

Lee - as regard to your last correspondence, I do lack omnipotence from within this discussion board, and so I cant answer every assertion that you have so selectively chosen from my words. Maybe Ill find the time to answer each one individually at a later date; for now, would you (and others) like to participate in the heaven/hell debate that I made mention of in my last message thread? Warmest regards,

Gavin

You do not need omnipotence within this discussion board to defend every assertion that you have made in this forum. You only need good arguments and reason but you have demonstrated that you lack such concerning your assertions which I have challenged and now you want to ignore them and take up an assertion that you think you can at least confuse Christians concerning. I have already told you that I will discuss any of your assertions and that you can add this assertion concerning heaven and hell to the list of propositions that we will discuss one by one. But I will not allow you to make assertions and then selectively chose the ones that you wish to defend without admitting that you cannot defend the assertions that I have challenged. I have not selected any assertions that you have made from any others. You are welcome to add as many assertions as you would like to discuss and I have the right to challenge as many as I prefer to challenge. I am challenging those and you can affirm any others that you think you can defend including your nonsense concerning heaven and hell. But if we are going to have a fair discussion we will discuss them all not just the ones that you prefer to discuss! You entered this forum by starting a thread wherein you asserted that God is dead and we have killed him. Now I have challenged you to affirm this as a formal proposition and defend it but you are unwilling now to do so because you lack the omnipotence within discussion board to answer every assertion. Gavin, we are not asking you to answer every assertion we are challenging you to defend not only your initial assertion that God is dead and we have killed him but several other assertions as I have listed in my last correspondence to you including ANY OTHER assertions that you wish to make including your ridiculous assertions concerning heaven and hell. I have asked you to get with me via e-mail so that we can draw up formal propositions and agree upon the rules of discussion and select moderators and determine a date and time for our discussion to take place and the length time that will be spent upon each several propositions. I told you that I have some affirmative propositions of my own that I wish to defend and you are welcome to deny.

But now you come here, without having attempted to settle upon propositions and actually agree to a formal debate, and act as if we are simply trying to deny you equal access to the form because we do not appreciate crude and offensive language and pretend that you therefore do not have the omnipotence to answer when the truth is that you do not have the evidence to support nor the sufficient reason and logic to defend your completely unproven and unreasonable assertions which you have made in this forum and therefore you are unwilling to take them up in a formal discussion where you must clearly state your propositions and be held accountable to offer proof of their truthfulness. So it is not omnipotence that you lack, Gavin, it is evidence and logic and reason that you lack.

Now, I will engage you in a discussion of Heaven and hell as you have requested but only in conjunction with and after we finish the discussion that you have already agreed to enter of the assertions that I have listed for you. You can write your formal proposition concerning heaven and hell and add it to the bottom of the list and we will discuss your assertions in the order in which you made them beginning with your first false assertion that God is dead and we have killed him and then the list which you have already been given and finally your assertions concerning heaven and hell and any other assertions that you wish to make provided that I disagree with them.

You will not be allowed to slip away without discussing them all. You have the time to make them you have therefore the obligation to make the time to defend them or accept the fact that you are completely unable or unwilling to prove that they are true.

Now, you are either willing to debate these matters or you are not but you will not be allowed to simply select the ones that you are willing to discuss. You have claimed the following:

1.) God is Dead.

2.) We have killed Him (God).

3.) Christianity is harmful. 4.) It (Christianity) is very much the religion of pity. 5.) Christianity is synonymous with primitiveness.

6.) Gods benevolence is an oxymoron. 7.) Christian values are decadent values.

Now if you want to add any further assertions that you feel we have deliberately neglected for some reason then fill free do so. If you wish to add a proposition concerning heaven and hell that you are willing to defend feel free to add it. But we will not agree to your feeble attempts to avoid discussing the seven assertions that you have made above simply on the grounds of your lacking omnipotence to answer every assertion. We have not asked you to answer any assertion we are challenging you to defend at least those seven which you have already boldly affirmed and any others that you prefer to assert with equal force.

Now, what we have proposed to you is eminently fair, Gavin. It seems that you are not quite as confident of these seven assertions as you were when you initially made them. That much is quite obvious to any thinking person who reads this forum. Now you are either confident that your above listed assertions are true and that they can be defended in a formal debate with clearly defined propositions and rules of discussion or you are not. Now which is it? If you want to debate these matters then lets talk via e-mail and agree upon the details as I have described above and we will take all seven of these and any others that you would like to add including your assertions concerning heaven and hell and lets begin at a time convenient to both of us and we will then at least be able to say that we discussed these matters under fair and reasonable circumstances and let the people who read this form judge the results for themselves.

Warmest regards,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, May 07, 2000

Gavin(?)

I do not recall any password requests coming from up_above_it@hotmail.com.

Profanity posters required me to move into a password-protected format.

Using God's name in vain, by my definition, is profane. As this is my Forum, it is my right to choose the ground rules.

If you can present your arguments in a civil manner, you may proceed.

I believe "Toilet Mouth" was reserved for some other crude poster which some in this Forum had the displeasure of reading before I deleted their filth. I do not presume it was you - - but if the toilet fits...

I do not recall receiving any emails from you, in fact, I have received none from the up_above_it@hotmail.com email address.

If you wish to participate in The Forum, please:

1. Use a valid email address.*
2. Refrain from profanity**

*One exception: Posters who wish to remain anonymous due to being identified in delicate matters... (they email me privately, and I then post their message with an assumed name)

**Profanity by MY definition

If you cannot abide by these simple rules, feel free to start your own Forum.

Sincerely,

Duane

-- Anonymous, May 07, 2000

Gervin,

(Just kidding!)

I just read the original post (most of it anyway), and now I am a little more up to speed on the context...

I have not been able to follow all of these posts, but during the same time period in which I "edited" one of your posts, someone else came in with a spew of crude, sexual, gutter language.

Some Forum Members alerted me to it, the posts were promptly deleted, and this Forum went "password protected."

I did enjoy reading the original post... And Scott Sheridan's replies have been especially good reading and noteworthy of praise.

Carry on Garvel!

And keep it clean.

:)

-- Anonymous, May 07, 2000

Gerbil,

I just visited your website... love the Shockwave technology...

I see that your email address is valid.

Cool.

-- Anonymous, May 07, 2000