I'd heard a scrabbling noise in the kitchen about a week ago, but a thorough inspection with flashlight, broom, and moved appliances yielded no answers (including no, um, post-digestion hints). Tonight I heard a crunching noise, and seeing how the cat was at my feet with a look of terror on her face, I figured something else must be munching kibble. Back to the kitchen with flashlight.

Three minutes later, flat on the floor looking under the refrigerator, my eyes focus on a rat the size of, oh say, MY ARM, calmly staring at me, no doubt wondering whether or not it should run out and bite my lips off.

I have never had to deal with a rodent problem before, and this one is complicated by the following factors:
--this rat probably doesn't live in my unit (I'm in a complex). There are no droppings, no holes, and I have to think that I might have heard a beast of this size before it reached this size. It may be coming in from next door or from outside.
--I have a cat who is no more eager to deal with it than I am. Because of the cat, I'm wondering if I can use poison--even if she can't access it, wouldn't a dead accessible rat full of poison be a bad thing? (Well, Cathy?)
--I have no problems with gore, but I can't really get under the refrigerator and the other open spaces are cat-accessible.

Any suggestions?

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

Answers

Just remembered something: the first time I heard scurrying, it seemed to be coming from above. The household opinion held that it was probably a bird stuck in our vent. I know that squirrels have gotten in there before (to chew the phone line dead), so I am going to go hazard a guess that my mature rat buddy came from the heavens (or at least the massive tree overhanging our place). So we are dealing with a wild tree-climbing explorer rat.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

Do not attempt to deal with vermin by yourself.

Hanta virus is no one's friend.

Call an exterminator. This is the only sensible option.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

Or the landlord.

Yes, poisoned rats are bad for cats. Fatally so. The conventional wisdom is that cats won't eat something that's already dead or dying or tainted by poison, but the conventional wisdom is wrong. It is not pleasant to watch a cat die from rat poison, although I'm guessing that if your cat is afraid of it, she's not much of a hunter/scavenger and she would probably leave it alone.

Doc cornered a rat in our back yard a few months ago. (Well, okay, he barked at it a lot. He was afraid of it; I don't think it was very cornered.) Jeremy killed it with a shovel, I believe. I wasn't there. That rat was probably smaller, though -- the rats we see in gardens downtown are these cute little gray and white things that look like oversized hamsters. It sounds like yours is one of the big yucky brown rats. Hate 'em.

I think rat traps are pretty gross and I don't know how reliable they are, but if you can block the cat's access somehow, it might be safer than poison. Or go to the Ace Hardware downtown and ask them; I think they sell rat poison and whatnot there, and they'd have experience with downtown rats. (It goes without saying that you should ask one of the adults, and not one of the ten year olds who man the cash registers.)

I would call the landlord, seriously. We don't really get hantavirus this low, I don't think, but you never know, and besides, ick.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

Just FYI: there have been outbreaks of Hanta virus in Colorado - people hired to clean mountain cabins have died because they weren't wearing proper gear (ventilators, etc.).

Rodent poopy bad. Exterminator good.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

While I'm sure Mr. Rat is a nuisance, it *is* possible to remove him without killing him. Humane traps are available at your local SPCA and probably also thru exterminators. I'd be surprised if you couldn't rent one for under ten bucks. Have them show you how to set it and bait it wit some peanut butter (or other yummy). Keep your cat in your bedroom or block off the kitchen. When the trap goes off, you can throw an old towel over it and cart it off to the nearest woods and release him. I know this sounds icky, but believe me, it's far less gross than dealing with a stinky dead rat carcass that's "turned" where you can't reach it.

If you saw him under the fridge, maybe there's a hole in the floor?

I'm with the rest of the crew: call the landlord or property manager. Rodents definitely fall in the "health hazard" category. Good luck!

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

Uh, since h lives around the corner from me and since I know that those big brown rats are most definitely not native to any woods within, oh, a continent of here, I would like to emphatically disagree with the idea of releasing it into the woods. Not that we have woods in Sacramento or anything.

Releasing exotic vermin into the woods ain't cool, even if the exotic vermin is probably already living there. Our foothills are full of cute little brown and white native wood rats and field mice; they don't need us dumping big city European invaders on them.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

Rats eat eggs as well, and as birds are far more attractive and personable than rats I'm all for sending the rat to eternal damnation.

I couldn't actually sleep in a house where a rat was. (What a badly formed sentence). Then again, I've never seen a cockroach, so you could say I've led a sheltered. However, it's been great that way.

My parents dog was apparently scared of mice.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

Sorry, didn't realize said rat was in the Sacramento area. I'd assumed that since it's that large, it's some other kind of wood rat. They get to be about the size of housecats in my neck of the woods.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

Recently, we had a raccoon move into in our ceiling. Not bad enough? She gave birth to frisky bastards that made noise all night long. Not bad enough? They were all infested, and it rained fleas from the ceiling. My wife, animal lover, went from "aww, they're so cute playing in the skylight" to "I want them all dead, right now!"

Our landlord threw some ammonia-soaked rags into the ceiling space. The theory was that the smell repelled them and they left. They did leave, and we found and boarded up the hole they entered. I'm not sure if the ammonia rag trick worked or if it was a coincidence.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

h,

you're right not to use poison if there are pets around that could ingest the dead rat afterwards

i was going to suggest a live trap as well, but if you live in the city perhaps it would be better to call in the exterminator. i've always been told with rats that if you see one, you've got a hundred!

my old rottweiler girl used to kill all the rats we had around the farm, and some of those were as big as my cats. they carry all sorts of diseases and can be quite nasty so i wouldn't fool around with it.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

I did a bit of research and discovered that my fine rodent friend is in all likelihood a tree rat (which seems to make sense). This is good in that it means we only have (probably) a one-rat problem. After gabby scared the heck out of me with the hanta scare, I checked in at the Centers for Disease Control site and learned all sorts of info on painful debilitating maladies AND how to get me some rat. They recommend spring traps and peanut butter. My new question: say I catch a massive certified TreeRat in a trap--how do I best and least painfully send it to rat heaven? I don't own a shovel.

Oh, additionally, calling my landlord is more of a second-chance type of option, for various and not entirely negative reasons. Big inhumane traps first.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

Eeeww! I'm on the side that says call an exterminator. It's their job to quickly and safely get rid of Things like that. Since you haven't seen it (or traces of it) running around it might be hard to get it into a trap. Poison might do the trick, but then it could just crawl into the refrigerator innards and die (and rot and smell...). And if you do catch it in a big trap---seriously---you aren't really going to be able to bash it on the head (are you?).

I would also suggest that you (or your landlord) put a chimney/flue screen up to keep more Things from getting in the house.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

I dug around a little bit re: humanely dispatching your rat friend. If you want to give him a humane death, really the only thing you can do is trap him and take him to either a shelter or a vet's office (if they'll euthanize). They'll overdose him on sodium pentobarbital and he'll zonk out.

The inhumane traps, however, sound like your only other option. Unless you've killed something before, I wouldn't recommend trying to bash anything with a shovel or any other tool.

Another thought: call Fish and Game and see if they have any recommendations for removal if'n you don't want to go the exterminator route.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

Death by carbon monoxide poisioning might be a way to kill the rat once you catch it. It's fairly humane as it just falls asleep and doesn't wake up. I'm not entirely sure how you could hook up your tail pipe to the rat cage, though.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000

Rats rats rats. I hates 'em, I do.

I just had a big-ass one in my last studio. The exterminator put out glue traps, which he ate. Get a big spring-trap (the classic rat-trap that the three stooges caught their fingers in). They're humane... they kill the buggars instantly. Use peanut butter or stinky-sharp cheddar. Lock kitty in a bedroom, cuz they'll take his paws off (and your fingers as well... be careful!)

We had one in our attic at the house; exterminator left posion. "What if it dies in the attic??" "Sir, in twenty years, it's never happened to me".

F*cker died in the attic. What a stink. Use a spring trap. Throw the whole mess in the trash. Scratch another rat. Yay!

Happy Huntin'!

.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Later that day...

I followed the advice of several of you: Beth, I went to Ace, and sure enough, the friendly old man there told me rat tales (they are apparently so big in Vietnam that they can't even sneak into houses) and showed me the monster snap-traps. The cat has been on room-arrest since the initial rat-spotting and has been howling most pitifully. This is really more about the cat than anything--I don't want her to get hurt or sick or poisoned. I have set out a big 'ol peanut-buttered trap and a sticky trap as well, just in case. And after some thought, I think I could take out a rat on my own, especially if I view it as a threat to the kitty. Also, I eat meat, so if I have any problem killing a non-beneficial threatening vermin, I should be reconsidering what has to happen for me to get a pollo burrito at Taco Loco.

Now I just have to wait for the beast to stir.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

H, I would offer Jeremy and his shovel services, but the rat he killed was already in the process of dying from rat poison. I don't know if he's up for a feisty one.

Jeremy's advice: tie a string to the trap and tie it to something so the rat can't drag it away. Man, this is icky; I don't even want him to keep dictating this to me. But basically he's saying that the sticky trap and the snap trap won't kill it (which you already knew), so be really careful. He's also talking about some kind of creepy ass trap that shoots nails into the rat's temples, but I'm just going to stop typing now.

Um, good luck. Should I make up the spare room?

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Oh, yes. You could always make one of those booby traps like druggies use to protect their illegal crops.

You just affix a live shotgun shell in position on a slightly modified Rat Trap, so when the trap is activated, the mechanism hits the firing pin.

However, there are a few drawbacks to using such a device. (like you could kill yourself, your roommate, or the repair man...etc)

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Don't use a glue trap. Oh, ick. It doesn't kill 'em. And they're incredibly cruel. I've seen mice rip their insides open trying to get off of them. I've had mice scream and scream and scream when they are stuck to them. And it's much harder to kill the animal than you think, it's just not as easy as stepping on a roach.

I've never ever tried to catch a rat as big as my arm on them, but did you consider - it might be alive enough to bite you (and rats have powerful jaws, and don't even think about the diseas factor), even if it looked weak and/or unconscious.

Really dangerous!

My cat catches rats for me, which solves all my problems (except the problem where he brings them to me in the middle of the night and drops the corpses on me when I'm sleeping to show me his handiwork, but it's not a perfect world . . ), but I don't think he'd take on one that big.

Good luck, and BE CAREFUL!

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Re: humane killing

Let's not kid ourselves, here, folks - there is no such thing as humanely killing anything. If we were interested in being humane, we'd let the vermin run free and lo, the return of the Black Death.

The expense involved in trapping the rat and taking it to the vet's office to be euthanized would be outrageous in proportion to the situation.

Bless their little ratty hearts, they're filthy and dangerous.

Oh, Orkin man!!!

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

The current plan, should my rat crawl across one of the glue traps or get caught in a nonfatal spring-trap hold, is to whack it on the skull with a wrench. I've already picked out the wrench. As to the shotgun shell idea, I thought I made it pretty clear when I titled my question "Giant Rat, NO Gun."

The morning update:
--all traps still chock full 'o peanut-buttery goodness. --due to their configuration, the rat has yet to leave the refrigerator area. And I can hardly blame it: it's warm, and I may have thrown some kibble down there for it last night (I figure that that way at least it would stay in one known place). --some of the kibble was crunched, and in looking behind the refrigerator, I can now see a dropping or two, and half a stick of sugarfree Cherry-flavored bubblegum. It was a free sample that fell off the back of the refrigerator a year ago. Don't artificial sweeteners kill rats? Maybe I just have to wait until it gets cancer.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Oh, cool idea! I've got some sweet and low around here somewhere; you could make a big pile of it behind your fridge. Die, rat fiend, die!

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

>> The expense involved in trapping the rat and taking it to the vet's office to be euthanized would be outrageous in proportion to the situation. <<

Oh, yeah, but calling Orkin is a cheap endeavor. Look, I'm not saying that we should be humane to everything that comes in our path. What I am suggesting is that if it's necessary to kill that at the very least the suffering is minimal. I'm unclear as to why this rat should suffer poison or having is spine snapped, which incidentally DOES NOT kill them immediately. After watching a lot of animals die horrible, painful deaths, yeah...I guess I'm a little jaded on hoping that there's the tiniest bit of compassion for some dumb animal that didn't do anything wrong except follow its stomach into h's house.

Sorry if I sound preachy. I'm just wondering what the deal is with KILL KILL KILL.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Some say kill, some say don't. I say, trap it, box it up and ship it to Gabby and let her kill it.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Just kill the fucking rat. There's lots more where that came from.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Because it's a rat and rats carry diseases and those diseases have been known to kill thousands if not millions of people in short periods of time and it's not a fluffy cute little bunny wabbit and it's either us or them, man, us or them!

But seriously, being killed is being killed - there's no fun, fluffy, less guilt inducing way to do it and you're deluding yourself if you think there is.

(Imagine - capturing the rat, putting it in a box, with airholes, whispering, "I'm sorry, little rat!" all the way to the vet's office and the rat is all like, "What the fuck! Where's the snacks?" and then the hand off and you don't have to see any of it! You're absolved - you've turned the rat's life over to a vet - and I don't think a self-respecting licensed vet would take the rat anyway because it would put the health of good cats and dogs at risk and if it was my vet's office and my cats were there, I'd be well and truly pissed - and you can walk away, scott free! Woohoo! Isn't humane killing great?)

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

gabby, get over it. "Woohoo, isn't humane killing great?" Honey, I *have* killed hundreds of animals humanely and it fucking sucks every single time. I've also killed animals by shooting them, by smacking them with shovels, and by cutting their throats. If you think for a second that any of this stuff is easy, you're the one who's deluded. Killing is violent, it's ugly, and it's one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. I'm not suggesting whispering "I'm sorry" to the rat the whole way to the vet's office.

All wild animals have the potential for disease. Bats and skunks are possess the highest risk of rabies, but no one's going out and smacking their little skulls. Yeah, maybe h has got it covered. But speaking as someone who HAS had a ton of experience killing things professionally, I think you're way uninformed about the process. But hey, if you get off on beating the shit out of something with a shovel, go for it, honey.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Your best bet is to hire an ex-termainator to rid the rat. However, I hate to throw more "poop" your way, but where there are rodents, snakes follow. Rodents are a snakes main source of food. There has to be a hole in the wall or floor where your new pet has entered, also, there must be a place under the house where they are getting in that needs to be fixed. Good luck.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Gena...where do you work/live to have killed so many animals? And if it's so awful, why do you continue?

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

I worked at the SPCA as an Animal Control Officer and I don't do it anymore. I think unless you've ever killed an animal yourself, you have no idea how difficult it is. It's not like smashing bugs; even humane killing is incredibly difficult, psychically.

No, the animal probably doesn't feel any pain when you inject. It just quietly slips away (most of the time). But until you've watched the life drain out of something at your hands, you can't possibly imagine how it feels. It haunts you in a way that cannot be explained.

I thought that I'd be able to handle it when I went into the field; for a while, I could. The animals were sick, injured, etc. You want to believe you're "helping them" and on a certain level, you are. At a certain point, however, it doesn't matter anymore. You're just killing. It's not "putting to sleep". It's ugly and violent, and you become the scapegoat for everyone else's fuck ups.

And it's not just puppies and kittens. It's deer with legs snapped half off because they got in the way of a car. It's a skunk who tangled with your Rottweiler, only the Rottie got the better end of the deal by getting sprayed. The skunk has his throat ripped open and still, somehow, he's breathing. And suffering.

So, when someone says, "Oh, just kill the fucking thing", maybe you might want to think about the fact that to you, it's just a rat that doesn't deserve to live. But it's still a living thing that didn't ask to get into the house. It followed its nose to the smell of good things (kibble). And yeah, they cause disease, and they're vermin, and the Black Death took out half of Europe. So what? It's the same mentality that says we should electrocute murderers. Is it that much more difficult to give the rat a humane death?

Having been on the other end of the needle and the gun, I can tell you that I never said "I'm sorry" to the animals when I was killing them. Dead is dead. They don't know any different. But to sit here and listen to this bullshit about how the rat's life doesn't matter...it's just bullshit. I don't have any preconceived notions about killing and foisting my responsibility off onto the vet ("humane killing", per gabby).

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Gena...with all due respect, I think you've got a case of PETA-brain. That's when everything is pretty much the same...barbecuing a chicken is comparable to murdering a baby. It's *not* all the same. Getting rid of a rat is not the same as capital punishment, or even close. Putting down a sick animal is not the same a murder.

In case you haven't noticed the natural world is a violent place.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

>>Gena...with all due respect, I think you've got a case of PETA-brain. That's when everything is pretty much the same...barbecuing a chicken is comparable to murdering a baby.<<

Uh, Joy, with all due respect, you misunderstood the point. I'm not comparing killing a chicken with murdering a baby. The quote was "And yeah, they cause disease, and they're vermin,and the Black Death took out half of Europe. So what? It's the same mentality that says we should electrocute murderers." The point being REVENGE. Let's kill all the vermin because, hey, they killed humans in the Middle Ages and still do today. So what? This rat hasn't killed anything that we know of.

I'm really curious what it is about rats (or mice or raccoons or squirrels) that make anyone want to respond with KILL KILL KILL. They're adorable, until they have the NERVE to enter our homes. They're so cute until they fight with our animals, necessitating a trip to the vet for stitches. Get a clue: they're all just trying to survive as well. As the bumper sticker goes, "Humans aren't the only beings on Earth. We just act like it".

PETA-brain? Oh please.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Of course the rat could be SATAN! Have you tried Holy Water?

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Rats? Adorable? Now I think you have Disney-brain.

No one's suggesting killing every rat on earth. But if any come into my house, they're gone.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Update:

I just got home (insert pitiful meowing from upstairs), and upon inspection of strategically placed traps, I noted that only one was disturbed: licked clean. Damn. At least now I know where it has eaten once (and that it agrees with everyone's suggestion of peanut butter).

Regarding death/rat cruelty:
I've actually had to kill pets before (snails, but hey, they were my housepets, AND a rat that turned vicious and crazy) and worked in several kennels where I had to deal with stillborn pups when I was young. I was also a fairly staunch vegetarian for years. I've given quite a bit of thought to animals and death, and in this situation, I am siding with my cat. The rat poses a larger threat to her than to me in several ways, and as I won't let her tangle with it, I am taking on the responsibility of killing it. Over the past day and a half, during which time the rat has obsessed me, I've accrued some feelings about it--it's a fine creature (and fuckin' large), and I admire the tenacity it must have taken to get from the tree to my refrigerator. I even have a few hokey scripts running through my head for when and if I have to dispatch of it (along the lines of oh great rat spirit, accept my apologies, and so forth) since I do truly admire the more tenacious creatures amongst us. Cockroaches are among my favorite insects.

However, I agree that transporting the rat to somewhere else is only increasing its potential threat: if it has fleas, I will then have them in my car; if I take it to the vet, I expose numerous other animals and humans to rat-germs. Also, no matter where I take the rat, it's gonna die. I don't have a problem facing that and am confident that I can dispatch it in an efficient and thorough way (why would I want a half-alive monster rat crawling around?). Thanks for the perspective anyway, Gena, even though I disagree with you a bit.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Gena, coming from somewhere that (until recently) was largely dependent on agriculture for the GNP, I can tell you that if you applied a 'live and let live' attitude to rabbits, for example (since NZ isn't overrun by giant rats) you'd get laughed at and then set free on a raft.

And rabbits are much cuter than rats, but there is a big KILL KILL KILL mentality regarding them because they eat everything, and the sheep go hungry. There is now an annual rabbit shooting day on Easter Sunday - the Easter Bunny hunt. And whenever a disease which kills rabbits but doesn't affect other animals is produced that will be used as well. All animals aren't created equal - some are pests. Rats and rabbits all undeniably into this category.

I really respect your SPCA work - I think it's great. But I just don't care about the welfare of some animals, and if that makes me a bad person then fine.

So bash away at that rat!

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000

I nearly got a chance to whack the rat last night when it set a paw on the sticky trap. I heard a great thrashing and scurry, but by the time I got there, it had run off. There is a tiny many-toed imprint on the glue. The little fucker has been oh-so-preciously licking the peanut butter off of the spring trap--4x now. It hasn't sprung the trap during any of these snacks--am I doing something wrong? Does the rat have to jump up and down on the bait pedal for the thing to snap?

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000

The potential for disease etc is an important consideration, but having had rats as pets and knowing how intelligent they are the idea of killing one viciously disturbs me. It's like whacking a stray cat with a shovel because it got in your basement. I really don't see any *good* way to get rid of the rat, and I won't say it shouldn't go, so I don't really know what better solution there is, but... well, I'm sure the rat doesn't give a crap with what attitude it is killed, but it always makes me sad to see the 'HIDEOUS RAT!!! KILL KILL KILL!!! STOMP ON ITS HEAD UNTIL IT DIES!!' kind of thing. I'm not sure why the rat that Doc had cornered (outside, if my short-term memory isnt' totally gone?) would have had to be killed at all, much less whacked with a shovel. It's a wild animal. It's outside. Isn't that about equivalent of doing the same thing to a bunny or squirrel that the dog's barking at?

Once while working on setting up an exhibit at the World Dairy Expo, I saw some mice skittering about. A co-worker grabbed a big rock and smashed one with it. No particular reason, this is a place where one would expect to see mice. I went over to see what he had done; the broken-backed mouse was trying to crawl away. He hadn't even made sure it was dead. Making warm-blooded creatures suffer just seems wrong. I understand that a rat invading a house has to be gottenrid of, and there's really no practical way to get it out of the house alive. But there's no need to do it in a way more cruel than you would allow for a pet hamster, which is infinitely more stupid than the average rat.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000

In our experience, rats that wander around in the garden in broad daylight and don't scurry away from dogs or people have almost always been poisoned and are only behaving that way because they're in the process of bleeding to death internally. I don't care about rats that come out at night in my garden (I have a lot of ivy; I surely have rats), but when they hang out and blink at you, as they do from time to time, the odds are very good that you will find them dead the next day. Jeremy didn't want Doc to eat a poisoned rat, so he dispatched it accordingly.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000

I'm wondering why a swift and accurate blow with a hammer or shovel is considered somehow more cruel than the alternate methods (excepting euthanasia, which I don't think is realistic for a house pest). I think that if I had to kill my cat at home for some reason, this would be the least cruel method. It's quick (the animal doesn't even know what is about to happen), it's complete (as opposed to the more lingering deaths of poison, drowning, or death by predatory animal), and it doesn't leave the possibility of a wounded but living animal. I recognize that if one doesn't do it right it can be just as cruel as slow strangulation, but otherwise, why is it such a problem other than the violence needed to carry it out?

Whoever said rats are damn smart: I totally agree. The pet rat I had was smarter than one of my roommates. If intelligence is the sole gauge of value, however, we should be sparing a lot more roaches, who are less of a severe threat than rats yet the height of insectile smarts.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000

If the trap is in a place where it is possible to do this, try waxing the floor around the trap (a solid car wax that comes in a can would be best).

The rat will be able to easily get to the trap, but won't be able to get any traction to escape.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000

I agree with h, although I guess I could see the problem if someone wasn't very good at killing something with a shovel or a hammer, although I still think that would be a more pleasant death than rat poison provides. If you're bothered by animals being killed by a blow to the head, then I certainly hope you're a vegetarian.

We used to slaughter rabbits to eat by holding them by their feet and whacking them in the head with a hammer. I've also watched rats die from poison. The hammer was more humane by a long shot.

In fact, after seeing how slow and agonizing a death from rat poison is, and knowing how easy it is for pets to get ahold of it, I don't think they should sell the stuff. I would certainly never use it.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000

If you can get a hold of some chocolate X-lax (or the equivalent) Put the whole thing in a dish and then put it behind the fridge. A trapper told me that one.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000

I suggest that you catch the rat yourself. I recently moved into a somewhat scummy area of town and recently discovered a small guinea pig sized rat in our apartment. I named him Randy ;) I don't think rats like water. Randy likes to eat out of our hanging bird feeder on the patio. He'll do this and run and hide under the patio palates. I tried to catch this morning, I lifted up the plank and lunged at that bastard with a towel. Randy is nimble though, he ran up the wall and into a metal thing on the wall. Tomorrow morning I'm going to try it again, this time with a wet towel so when I do catch him he will be all wet, he deserves that! Little crap. Then I am going to get a cage and put him in it. and then I'll catch his family and friends and when I have them all I will dump them in the river and they can all be wet. Then they can swim to the shore and start a new life, cleansed of their past trespasses by the holy water of the might fraser river! I think you should do the same. who knows, maybe they could be my ancestors so please don't listen to those people who want to kill them. I'd start by creating a puddle under the fridge, that way you can keep him in the open, it's easier to get the towel on him that way. I suggest you wet the towel too, Once you get him in there wrap it up holding on to either end, in a wringing fashion. Keeep him in the living room where his family can hear his cries - they will soon come out. You can do it. let me know if you need more advice.

By the way, who is this haunta guy?

Frank

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001

This thread is over a year old. H. has long since vacated the rat- infested apartment and moved to the swanky part of town. Of course, I know for a fact that there are rats over there, too (or at least there were at my old apartment, two blocks away), so perhaps she'll take your suggestions under advisement.

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001

The new posts to this thread give me a chance to tell you the horrific thing my grandfather did to the rats in his basement during the famine in Austria after World War II. Don't worry, he didn't eat them, but the threat that they would eat or taint the family's food made them deadly enemies. My grandfather live-trapped one of the large family of rats in his cellar, then blinded and lamed it and put it in a large cage near the center of the room. The other rats moved out.

Every time I think of this story, or at least once I get past how revolting it is, it impresses me how smart those rats must have been. (Shudder)

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001