I live near a city and, having been a city dweller once myself, know what agony it is to be surrounded by walls and pavements. When I lived in Reston, Virginia, the community fenced off a section of land and rented small garden plots to the tenants. This was conveniently near the stables where we could get manure. I loved my little plot and it made a big difference to me, even though Reston was really nice and my apartment was located next to a golf course so I could at least see grass.

Country Living Magazine recently had an article on some community gardens in Germany where families have owned leases for years and have put up cute little sheds and planted fruit trees. Through my bee newsletter, I got in touch with a man in England who has a rented garden space he calls an "allotment." I wrote him and he replied.

Now, do any of you know about community gardens? Have you rented them yourselves, either as a tenant or a landlord? Do you think they'd be a good source of income for a homesteader? If you had one, how would you design it?

I'm going to paste here next part of what the nice Englishman replied to me, to prime your mental pumps:

Normally, an allotment site is a field divided into plots of about 300 square yards or so; they began in the Nineteenth Century, when large numbers of peasant families were being forced off the land by agricultural reforms, and becoming landless labourers; it was cheaper to let these inadequate bits of land to them and let them grow their own food than it was to pay them properly. Rents for these are around #20 per year, depending on where you are. My plot began as 'leisure gardens' which are rather different. About 1720, landowners round Birmingham and other towns started parcelling up their fields and renting them to townsfolk who had no gardens of their own. The tenants tended to be middle-class, or at least well established working class, not the poor. The gardens were let on long leases, so families effectively owned their own. So people invested in them, built brick summerhouses, laid paths, all sorts of things. The only real restriction as far as I am aware was that, at least on our site, you had to be a churchgoer (hence 'respectable'). There is some evidence of a tradition of beekeeping going back to that period; there have certainly been bees on the site since the Council took over. Most of the gardens disappeared as towns grew and land increased in value. The survivors lost their original purpose after the Second World War, when the better-off had their own gardens. There are three or four other sites in the country, but ours is the only one which has been continuously cultivated. The Council took on the lease in the Sixties, smashed the brick sheds, tore up paths, ripped out hedges, and nearly destroyed the site in a stupid attempt to reduce it to standard allotments. Hence the situation where nobody cares what they think. The lease is running out and with any luck we may be able to get rid of them and run the site ourselves. Fortunately it's now 'listed' as a site of national interest, and they would have trouble closing it as a result. The plots are mostly 600 square yards, each with its own hedge, so there is plenty of privacy. The rent is cureently #30 per year, but I'm not sure this is really economic. People who are interested would pay more, probably up to around #100, provided they got something in return, ie reasonable site maintenance, rather than having to do it all ourselves. Rules need to be as basic as possible, probably little beyond a requirement to keep the plot in good order, get official clearance for permanent buildings or those over a certain size, so that nothing inappropriate was built, and not to cause a nuisance. The latter would cover bees in the UK, but I don't know the legal definition of a 'nuisance' in the States. In Birmingham, you can keep chickens or rabbits as long as they do not cause a nuisance, but not bees. This is illogical, and if I made a fuss I might get it changed; I wouldn't be the first to change a rule. But some precedents would help. I think your German gardens are probably similar to mine. I have vaguely heard things about leisure gardens on the Continent, but don't know any details. I think you would need a range of sizes, as 600 square yards is too much for a lot of vegetable growers, and many people only cultivate part of their plots. Many of them used to be used basically as orchards and recreational space, but the Council felled a lot of the trees, and at least half of the survivors are now moribund. We have some 300 square yard plots which work well. On the other hand, I find 600 square yards a bit cramping, as I want vegetables, fruit, bees, and space for the kids to play, so I'm hoping to take over an adjoining plot when one becomes available.

-- Elizabeth Petofi (tengri@cstone.net), May 01, 2000

Answers

A little long for me to read all of the posting, but in response to your question, yes, I have used such a plot locally, and many use the same plot each year. However, many plots also go unused, and the fees barely cover the water costs. In addition, all of the plots must be cleared by a certain date in the fall, and then a fall plowing is done. A roto-tiller is available for use in the spring or at other times, but you must furnish the gas and oil for it. Garden hoses are available for irrigation. All plots must be well kept, and if they are not, a notice is sent to the holder of it, and if it is not taken care of, at the end of a two week period the plot is plowed under. In our locale excess cemetary ground is used for the community gardens. I really don't think that many folks would drive any distance into the country to maintain a plot, and the cost would have to be a nearly non-profit in order to draw anyone at all, let alone as a money maker for you. That is just my opinion of course, but that is what you asked for. I think that most folks underestimate the value of a good garden. Your extension agent might be able to advise you about the usage of such plots.

-- greenbeanman (greenbeanman@ourtownusa.net), May 02, 2000.

We used a community garden when we were first married and had to live in town for a while (Tacoma, Washington). I had never lived without a garden, so was really thankful for that little piece of ground. It was only about 10 x 20, they rototilled the whole place, and provided manure and water. You had to keep it clean or lose it, I know not too many people kept going for the whole summer. I don't think that there is enough real *need* to push most people to do that much work, especially if they weren't raised that way. It is so much easier to just scrape by on the pension check, or the minimum wage job, or welfare, and buy food at the store, than it is to WORK out in the hot sun, breaking a sweat and getting sore muscles and dirty hands, all for a few bags of food. It is really a shame -- maybe keeping a productive food garden ought to be a requirement for everyone who is physically able!! Well, anyway, I think that most people in this country are too physically lazy to make such a program successful. Also, most lack the stick-to-itivness (I know that's not a word!) to keep it going for the whole season and harvest what they have grown. You know how fast many young people over the years have left the family farm for cleaner, easier, and theoretically better-paying work in town -- not many will voluntarily reverse that cycle. It would take a major catastrophe to force most people into serious physical labor, although they may spend hundred or even thousands of dollars on non-productive 'fitness' or 'sports' activities.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 02, 2000.

Kathleen, "sticktoitiveness" is an "Americanism,(originated in the US) according to Webster's dictionary! n. (colloq)pertinacity; persistance;perseverance. Perfectly good word. Thought you might like to know that piece of trivia.

Elizabeth, The community garden thing has always interested me. When we first moved to the country I had dreams of just such a plan. However, good sense prevailed and I realized that town people wouldn't drive 25 miles just to weed a garden. And I discovered that even in the smallest yards MANY town people have their own gardens. Now I'm thinking of the "pick-your-own" type of garden. Things like winter squash, pumpkins, corn, potatoes,- the things that take up a lot of space and city people don't have room for. Any thoughts on that idea? This is a perfect forum to get just the kind of feedback a person needs!!!

-- Peg (NW WI) (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), May 02, 2000.

Thanks for the responses. The pick your own garden is the exact opposite of what i am talking about. The pick your own gardens involve a big monetary investment and a lot of work in planting and maintaining and advertising strawberries or blueberries or brambles or an orchard, a big insurance policy to protect yourself from liability, finding workers and interns to do the work and providing housing and meals for them. There are successful operations like that and i know enough about them to go to them when I feel like picking something and to NOT even think about attempting one of my own.

As to city dwellers, there are lots of subdivisions near me where the people have teeny yards and are always whining they don't have room to do what they want.

The subject of my question is not to, please, come up with other options or to find negatives. All I would like to learn is if someone knows about these kinds of operations and SUCCESS stories or good ideas of what might work! How big a plot? How separate from other people? How much do people pay and what do they expect in return? Any copies of actual leases? Looking for solid, helpful information here!!!!!!!! Please! Looking for successful enterprises I can use as a model. The man I quoted points out some people only want 300 square yards, while others want at least twice that much. That is the kind of information I am looking for. Please!

-- Elizabeth Petofi (tengri@cstone.net), May 02, 2000.

Elizabeth, had a friend of ours who tried this --but she had ground just inside the city limits, of a large town. I will ask her, what her plot sizes were, how much she charged, etc. I know she stopped because the insurance was too high, & she found she could not keep the people happy--the more she did to help them and do for them the more they wanted & expected. Also the plots were raded, & they thought it was town youth who did the damage, she met with so many conflicts in her area, she gave up. Part of the plots were given to oldier citizens in the area as part of her mission work. They also planted extra veggies to be given at the senior center for those that were not able to garden. But all was distroyed--by, they think the area teens as a joke! Most didn't bother to replant! She gave up! She was so encouraged about the project--& I felt bad as I have owned businesses for over 30 years--& she was always telling me WHAT I SHOULD DO--she got a hard lesson of what dealing with the public can be like!

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), May 02, 2000.

Dear Elizabeth,

You're absolutely right; I didn't answer your question properly. How could I have been so arrogant, inconsiderate and tactless? It must be the strain of caring for my parents 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for the past 7 months. I do know how precious time is and I apoligize for wasting yours. Please forgive me.

-- Peg (NW WI) (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), May 03, 2000.

Amazing responses on here. Sorry Peg took offense, which I certainly did not intend. I am always looking for a way to derive income from my land. I have a lot of it and I would like to be able to put some of my land to use so I could at least pay the taxes on it, and share my land with people who would love it as I do -- without selling it to them! Because I have hardly any money to start with, anything I do to derive income from the land needs to come from somebody else's wallet or desires or ideas. One possibility would be a cell tower. Another which I am thinking about here would be to section off a part of the land or several parts for people to use as their own, to practice on for when they got their own homesteads. I know from reading this forum there are people who live in the city in order to earn the money to buy their homesteads some unknown time in the future. I was hoping that such people would respond to this question.

Maybe I am thinking about renting out mini homesteads on which they could build micro houses? Then the city dwellers could have chickens or rabbits or goats but keep them on my land, just the way city dwellers can own horses which they board on someone else's land.

I don't see any call for someone making a big sacrifice taking care of her parents (a whole different topic and frame of mind) to get upset because I am trying to find a way to create a win-win situation for me as impoverished landowner to cooperate with a city or subdivision dweller to create a win-win situation for themselves.

Anyway, I put the question forth again and do hope that it doesn't trigger any more harrier jet responses which are not what I am looking for (and don't see why anybody else is, either).

-- Elizabeth Petofi (tengri@cstone.net), May 04, 2000.

I would think one would want to hear pros and cons on any subject .There are many things we may not realize when considering a venture as mentioned above .If you receive information you didn't want maybe you could just read it over and forget it .Some comments can hurt peoples feelings , especially in times of stress.I think we all should consider how someone may take words written and reconsider before we print any negitives.Hats off to Peg for taking such good care of her parents and the self sacrifice that takes .I'm sure she wants no thanks for doing it , but it is a very physically and emotionally difficult time .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), May 04, 2000.

well said patty.

-- kathy h (saddlebronc@msn.com), May 04, 2000.