Have read a few books on raising bees and wonder if anyone has enough personal experience doing it to tell me just how difficult of a venture it really is.

-- Linda Foster (rcfam@csinet.net), May 01, 2000

Answers

What is your goal in having them - honey, pollination or both?

-- R. (thor610@yahoo.com), May 01, 2000.

I started my first hive last year, IT WAS GREAT. fun to watch and learn. They didnt survive the winter, a rabbit decided to live under the hive, and chewed a hole in it. I got 2 going this year, dont think Ill ever stop.

-- stan (sopal@net-port.com), May 01, 2000.

The technical part of it isn't that difficult. Filled honey supers can get very heavy to handle and the bees will follow you to the honey house or wherever you are going to extract. Other than that, you need good equipment and doing things when they need to be done is important. The books will tell you all about that part of it. The problem now is that bees are having a tough time with diseases and parasites (mites especially). Some estimates are that 80% of all wild honey bees are now gone and the same is happening to domestic bees. Maybe that's an alarmist view but I've noticed there are no honey bees around here these days. They are fascinating little creatures with moods just like people. They don't like to be bothered on cloudy, windy, cold or rainy days. Pick a sunny day and they are so busy gathering nectar and pollen that they hardly notice you.

-- Peg (NW WI) (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), May 01, 2000.

The best way to learn more is to take a bee-keeping course. They are usually put on by your local beekeepers' club. I took such a course last year and got very enthusiastic about having bees. I bought four hives and they all were very healthy and began swarming, so I bought more hives and learned how to catch swarms (very scarey and exciting when you are all alone and there's no one to help you!)

I went into the winter with 11 hives and 9 of my 11 died this past winter, leaving me with only two now. I medicated my bees, but they starved to death because they did not have enough honey and I did not feed them. If you can take a course or join a club, I would advise it. If you can find a local beekeeper, offer to help him/her in return for some training. Then you can learn for yourself that bees have no sense of humor when you drop their hive parts, or if you are allergic to the smoker, and what mites look like, etc. If you really enjoy it, the person you help will probably help you by selling you some hive body parts and a couple of colonies of bees.

Bees are really interesting. I spend a lot of time just watching mine get water and work the flowers. Of my two surviving hives, one of them already swarmed and escaped. I got there just after they flew into the top branch of a tall pine. They sounded like a jet taking off. Very intimidating. Almost made me cry when I realized I couldn't get them to repopulate one of my empty hives. I think of my bees as little tiny HO scale livestock! If you have other animals, and you get bees, you might be surprised as how deeply you come to care for them. Even though they are insects, they seem very smart. they can make observations and come to decisions on their own. When I come to my land, a few always fly out to see what's going on. If I bring water, they go to it immediately. Once a really bad tempered bee flew around and around me. I felt safe because I was in my bee suit and had on my bee hat and veil. She persisted until she found part of my throat covered only by soft nylon net, then she stung me right through that soft fabric! I was sure she got me on the juglar vein and i was going to die right then! Fortunately she missed, but not by much! How did she know where to strike? Whatever you do, do not underestimate bees! And I would encourage you to learn as much as you can about them and then, if you believe you can handle it, get some!!!!

-- Elizabeth Petofi (tengri@cstone.net), May 01, 2000.

My husband has been keeping bees for about nine years, and I second Elizabeth's advice to take a bee keeping course, and make friends with local bee keepers. My husband did start almost entirely on his own, but it is much better to have someone you can call when you have questions, and who can advise you on things so you don't make so many mistakes. It isn't always an easy hobby -- we've lost all our bees twice. The first time due to the mites, before they figured out how to medicate for them, and when (which turns out to be as important as what). Then this last winter he lost all twenty hives. A bear kept getting into them last summer (his electric fence wasn't staying hot), and the hives it didn't kill outright were weakened so much they couldn't make it through the winter. They are interesting to have around, and I don't think you could ever learn all there is to know about them. I don't usually go too close to the hives, but have picked black cherries right over the tops of them without any problems. The only time I've ever been stung has been when hubby brings supers full of honey into the house -- he extracts in the kitchen (what a mess!!!). He does try to brush the bees off before they come in, but seldom gets them all, so we will have as many as a couple hundred bees flying around in the house for a couple of days, until they all die off or I get them with the fly swatter. I hate to do it -- we try to shoo them out a window if possible -- but they won't all go. But it is nice to have several five-gallon buckets of home-grown honey put away, and he usually sells several buckets, too. Give it a try -- I think you will find them so interesting you will want to stick with it!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 01, 2000.

hello, I raised honey bees for many years; I started out working for a beekeeper. I learned most of what I know that way. The books can give you all the info you need, really. I would encourage you to seek out a local keeper and ask if you could help a bit and just hang around and watch. Truthfully, honey bees demanded the least amount of time of all the livestock I've had. You need to keep in tune with nature and recognize when there is heavy pollen or honey flow so you can get supers on and give enough room to prevent swarming. I would also recommend looking into the different strains of honey bees and choose a strain that is disease resistant and fastitious cleaners! Buckfast is a good strain. I would steer clear of Italian...they tend to be less clean and prone to disease and also swarm quite frequently. They are very gentle as a rule, but so are Buckfast...typically, the more gentle they are, the less they produce. Nothing like a good aggressive bee for working hard and producing much...that is how the "killer bees" were introduced---they are great producers, just a tad too aggressive! :-)) Buckfast is a happy medium. It has been a few years since I've kept bees, so I'm sure there are other strains now available that may be even better...pay the extra! You can sell your swarms for more too. I encourage you to test it out and if you like it, go for it...it is great fun and very rewarding. Most of your time spent on the bees will be spent extracting and bottling/packaging. Buy new equipment...start fresh.

-- Jim Roberts (jroberts1@cas.org), May 02, 2000.

In response to your question I would indeed like to raise bees for both the honey and garden,orchard pollination. I have been a bit intimidated by what some books say the initial start up costs are in light of the fact that the hives may not for whatever reason survive,be it mites,intruders,or problems with overwintering. I appreciate all the responses and suggestions I`ve received so far, and have thought before that it would be best to get some hands on experience with a local beekeeper if possible.Buying new is a suggestion that seems to be stated in nearly every publication I`ve read with regards to bee equipment, particularly the supers themselves.If I decide to give it a try that`s the route I will probably take as it makes sense to avoid what difficulties I can. I guess I am hesitant to try my hand at bees and hive management due to all the problems people seem to have in ensuring their survival. I wasn`t nearly so fearful of learning and taking risks in the purchase of our horses,goats,dogs, cats, and the occasional beef cow or hog that we`ve had. Maybe I`m making it out to be harder than it actually is. In terms of start up costs given the obvious variables of location what is an average cost for all that a person needs to get started? This is certainly something that a local beekeeper could answer for me as well.Again, thanks for all the help.

-- Linda Foster (rcfam@csinet.net), May 02, 2000.

This is our first year with bees . I dearlly love them, and grew up around them . I must say that joel does do most of the work putting the hive bodies on and inspecting them and treating them. He does suit up for this ,but i stand out of the beeflight pattern and hand him things and have not been bothered. If you want organic bees are a hard way to go. There are new mites and foul brood ect. most bee keepers in this area treat with chemicals like teramyicne. Bee keeping is something you will either enjoy doing or not do. We do attened a mounthly bee meeting . This helps with our questions and we learn from others what not to do. If we can do this you can! Keep things simple to start with find someone in your area that you can bounce things off of (one of them crazy ol' bee keepers). And remmeber if people didn't think you were odd enough for homesteading they will think you are even more so for wanting to take care of a critter that will sting. : ) Much luck becky

-- Becky (Joel681@webtv.net), May 02, 2000.

When I read the last line in Becky`s response to my bee question I had to laugh outright as people definitely have thought us crazy for living in the country and having animals, and I KNOW they think I`ve really gone off the deep end in wanting bees. This is particularly true as Becky noted since I am most certainly going at one point or another to get stung!

-- Linda Foster (rcfam@csinet.net), May 02, 2000.

I just started with bees this year. Attended my first seminar last Saturday. It was fascinating. Didn't get stung once and had my head into the "jaws of the hive". I am starting with only one hive, all new equipment. Every book says to start with two, but I didn't know if this was something I would continue and didn't want to go to more expense than necessary. Another woman at the seminar said that she had started with only one last year and was doing fine. I bought a beginner's kit which included one large super with frames and foundation. I also bought an additional large super and a small super for chunk honey. Both also with frames and foundation. I was told by beekeeping friends that in my area with cold winters (NE IN) that I would need two large supers for the bees to survive the winter. All of this equipment has cost me about $188. That doesn't include the bees. I am going to buy a nuc from another beekeeper which will be about $50. A pair of white overalls from a local outfitter is about $12. Do be sure and find a friendly beekeeper to help. When my equipment arrived it was in pieces in several boxes. The instructions for assembly were totally inadequate. I thought "What did I get myself into?" But my friends volunteered to come and show me how to assemble the hives and frames with foundation. I would have been totally lost if they hadn't. I am looking forward to this experience.

-- R. (thor610@yahoo.com), May 03, 2000.

The reason for buying new equipment is because the old equipment might be infected with a bee disease which would kill your new bees. However, sometimes perfectly fine equipment is available because the beekeeper simply stops beekeeping for some valid reason such as he died or suddenly became allergic to bee stings or changed his mind. It's a good idea to start with two hives because you have them to compare with each other -- a good way to learn.

I bought all my original hives from a beekeeper who had been keeping bees for many years, as had his father beefore him. All the hives I bought had been inspected and had the inspector's seal on them -- a good thing to look for!

I would be willing to sell some of my hives now because after I bought 11 hives, I found out the smoker gives me asthma and the hive parts are just too heavy for me! I bought new supers as kits and had a terrible time putting the boxes and the frames together, and after I got the frames in, during the terrible heat we had last summer, a lot of my foundation melted in part because I had tried to save a little money and bought the thin pure wax foundation with the idea I would make honey comb (to save the cost of buying an extractor).

If I'd had a good, experienced beekeeper to advise me, probably I could have saved myself some of the mistakes I made. I bought some really good books and learned a lot from them. Hands-on taught me more!

-- Elizabeth Petofi (tengri@cstone.net), May 04, 2000.

R -- I hope you read this!!!! You listed the various things you bought but you did not mention a bee veil! That is a MUST! Most of the time honeybees are nice and gentle, especially if you give a little puff of smoke at the entrance and a bit under the lid and then WAIT (yes, very hard to do) for a couple of minutes. But sometimes bees are grouchy and irritable or maybe they got crossed with the dreaded African bees called killer bees. Do not take a chance your eyes or face might get stung. Be sure to get a veil.

By the way, I got a white plastic helmet and a veil from Dadant (not too far from me. I like to go there in person to see what I'm getting instead of just looking in the catalog when some of the stuff is very strange and foreign to me). But now that I have them, the hat and veil are clumsy. It's a "folding" veil and slides around and slips when In bend my head down to look in the hives. A friend of mine got something I'm gonna save up my money and get -- a white jacket with a stiff wire head cover. It has all the advantages of the bee veil and none of the disadvantages. I haven't looked up all the web sites for bee supplies but i can tell you some names: Dadant, Brushy Mountain, and Mann Lake. Mann Lake is where my friend got his head and face protection.

And two hives also is a good idea because if you lose the queen from one or that hive gets weak, you will have the second hive to take a frame or two of brood from -- kind of like the way veterinarians keep a pet dog and cat around, just to have in case they need a transfusion!

-- Elizabeth Petofi (tengri@cstone.net), May 05, 2000.

A Beginner's Kit includes not just a super with frames and foundation, but also, veil, hive tool, smoker, gloves and book.

-- R. (thor610@yahoo.com), May 06, 2000.

I just wanted to add--The difference between bees. Itallions and africanized. Itallions, when they sting or one gets killed emit a scent that calls the hive to attack. When an africanized bee stings or is killed the same scent calls out the armies of all local hives. You've never really lived until you have 5 hives of africanized bees attack you !! Joel

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), May 07, 2000.

In response to Joels last helpful hint all I can say is that in a previous post I commented on the fact that I fully expected to get stung once in awhile!!!!In all seriousness, I have to say thanks for the info, infact again thank you to everyone who participates in this forum and is so generous in sharing their knowledge with those of us asking the questions.Having some understanding of the different types of bees and their known temperment will aid me immeasurably when it comes time to purchase several hives.

-- Linda Foster (rcfam@csinet.net), May 07, 2000.

hi, i'd like to know what books are good, and what is the first thing to do? what kinds of bees to get. I want them for the wax, I make moisturizer and other beauty products, and want to produce my own beeswax for this purpose. I'll be reading this entire forum tonight. thanks for any/all answers for a total beginner!

-- Gloria J. Geary (mistymt@theofficenet.com), August 16, 2000.

Gloria, if you only want the wax I think you'd be a lot better off buying the wax from someone. This is just my opinion. The wax comes from the comb in which the bees store the honey, raise their baby bees, and store pollen. If you take that away from them you would be destroying the comb they have built up and they would have to rebuild. Most beekeepers are very careful about how much comb they take. To produce honeycomb honey there is a special foundation you can get. It is not reinforced with either wire or plastic and is meant to be used in its entirety. To get new comb you have to clean the frame and insert a new piece of foundation. That's a piece of very thin beeswax stamped lightly in the honeycomb shape that bees can use to build on. It's faster and neater than letting them build it without a "plan". To find out more you can look in the library for good books. They usually have several. Then if you are still interested, you can buy the ones that give you the most information. Good luck.

-- Peg (NW WI) (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), August 16, 2000.