I have been hearing from some dhristuans that when a person is baptised for the remesion of there sins that they are sinless perfect, that they say they are perfect and can not sin. I do not understand this teaching because I see the bible showes that we must continue to press toward the mark of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus,,Phil 3:14. we are told also in I John 1:8-10 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth in not in us. if we confess our sins , he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. if we say that we have not sinned.we make him a liar, and the truth is not in us." I am not perfect on my own, it is through ths grace that God has given to me, not of my own that i can boast it is a gift from God. Richard

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Answers

Richard.....

I was wondering myself how long it would be before this came up.

I'm going to address it in a new thread...."Another Gospel."

Thanks!

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Richard,

You have not misunderstood the Scriptures. Christians can, do, and will sin again - it's a nature we strive against but never conquer. The Apostle Paul spoke of such a struggle in Romans 7:14-25.

But as you quoted, as Christians, if we are faithful to repent and confess our sins God is faitful and just in His forgiveness of those sins.

I guess the bottom line is this: if someone says that a Christian cannot sin, he is either in denial, or walking through life with blinders on, or else just isn't "dipping both oars in the water" (if you know what I mean...:~). Or at the very least, they have absolutely no idea as to what scripture actually says and have not shown themselves to be an approved workman who is able to accurately divide the Word of Truth.

I pray this helps you decide that which is truth.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Richard:

You said:

"I have been hearing from some dhristuans that when a person is baptised for the remesion of there sins that they are sinless perfect, that they say they are perfect and can not sin."

You surely have not heard such nonsense in this forum! THe scriptures do teach that we must be baptized for the remission of our sins. " Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:38. Jesus said, " He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: He that believeth not shall be condemned." Mark 16:16. And Saul was told, "arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord" Acts 22:16. Peter told us, " The like figure whereunto baptism doeth also now save us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience by the resurrection of Christ." (1 Peter 3:21) And the scriptures show that the "circumcision of Christ" by which He removes our sins from our souls takes place when we are buried with him in baptism. (Read Col. 2:11-13). Now these verses refer to the forgiveness of our past sins and the obtaining of mercy from God. When we have beleived in Christ(John 3:16) repented of our sins (Acts 3:19) Confessed Christ (matt. 10:32-33; Romans 10:9,10) and been baptized for the remission of our sins (Acts 2:38; mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21; Acts 22:16; Romans 6:3-6, 17; Col2:11-13; Heb 10:22; Eph. 5:25; Titus 3:3-5; John 3:3-5) we are born again of water and the spirit we are in Christ (Gal 3:26,27) and all things have become new (1 Cor 5:17).

But this does not mean that we cannot sin after haveing been born again as you have so clearly pointed out. For indeed we can and do sin after having been born again. In fact we have an example in Acts 8. Simon of Samaria was baptized into Christ and so were many of the Samaritians. Then when Peter and John came to lay hands on the Samaritians that they might receive the Holy Spirit simon offered them money saying "give me also this power that on whomsoever I lay my hands he may receive the Holy Spirit". This was a sin that he had committed for trying to by the gift of God with money. Peter even told Simon that he was in the "gall of bitterness and the bond of iniquity". Now this shows clearly that one can sin after being born again of the woter and the spirit. It also shows what Christians can do if they do sin. Peter told this Simon to "repent and pray God if perhaps the thought of thine heart might be forgiven thee".( Acts 8:18-22). So when those who have been born again of the water and the spirit ( John 3:5) and are thus new creatures in christ and have obtained the forgiveness of their past sins thereafter commit a sin against God they are to "repent and pray God" for figiveness. Even 1 John 2:1 says concerning Christians who sin. "These things write I unto you that ye sin not but if any man sin we have an advocte with the father Jesu Christ the righteous. Who is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." (1John 2:1).

So the truth is that no one in this forum believes that those who have been baptized for the remission of sins are, as you have said, "sinlessly perfect". Now there is a group of Pentecostals that I am aware of who believe in sinless perfection but they do not believe in such because they believe in 'baptism for the remission of sins'.

Now the Scriptures teach us to be baptized for the remission of our sins for this is what puts us into Christ where we enjoy all spiritual blessings (Eph 1:4; Ats 4:12; 1 Cor 5:17; Gal. 3:26, 27). Being in Christ means that we have access to the throne of grace where we can ask in faith through Jesus Christ for forgiveness of any sins that we commit after becoming a Christian.

Your Christian Friend,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

I want to state that I haven't heard this from this forum as of yet, I have heard it frtom some christians who I know that have obeyed the plan of salvation, heard.. believed.. repented.. and were emersed into Christ for the remession of there sins. I appreciate the first two responses about this, I have put this out to see if others have heard this, I agree it does sound crazy. and I pray that all christians realise we have not arived, and that we need to fight the good fight of faith and we will get that crown, and hear the Lord say "Well done thou good and faithful servent welcome into your reward". thanks again .. Richard

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Richard, that sounds like Wesleyan/Methodist/Holiness theology to me.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Perhaps what they are thinking is the following.

(Heb 12:23 KJV) "To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,"

(1 John 2:1 KJV) "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

(1 John 2:2 KJV) "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

(1 John 2:3 KJV) "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."

Being made perfect through Jesus Christ and that when we sin we have a perfect advocate with the Father. So when the adversary accuses us of sin God views us through the Savior.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Richard, you wrote:

I have been hearing from some dhristuans that when a person is baptised for the remesion of there sins that they are sinless perfect, that they say they are perfect and can not sin.

Perfect? If that were so, even your own post would have been error- free. Your typos show that even we dhristians are not perfect!

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Richard, You should believe that you can be perpect in Jesus Christ because He said "Be thou perfect. Abraham was perfect so were Zacharias and Elizabeth "walking perfect in all the ordinances of the law" they followed their conscience unto perfection, the Spirit of Truth was upon them. This was even before Pentacost. You cannot listen to fallen Christians who seek a false peace from a false defeated gospel. Easy believism and "Once saved always saved" were the very sermons preached to Eve in the garden. Devil said "You can sin and you won't die" big lie. What is so difficult for a saint to say "Lord I surrender all" whenever they mess up. The "salvation" He gave at Calvary is a state of existence in a PERFECT Spirit that cannot sin. Christ has no sin. So focus and focus and focus on the Spirit of Truth to be led to all truth. Not hireling preachers or the carnal twice dead sinning Christians. It's you and JESUS. The churches in America are so wasted without sensetivity to the ancient truth that never changes. They trash 2000 years of holy hymn singing tradition for the rock and roll worship that God hates, so there is no blessing and the children of compromise fall into unbelief too easily. Satan speaks in twisted scripture my brother, and you need to listen to the Voice of Truth for yourself. Be careful, Sincerely Daniel rem33ad777@hotmail.com

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2000

Richard I am sorry I did not answer this earlier, But I would like to send you a systematic study throught the scriptures if you desire. Now this subject is very controversial, but I can send you a copy so that you can make up your own mind, as to what the scriptures say. Yes we are 100% sin free the moment we come up out of the water, but it probably will not be long 1 minute 1 hour before we might sin again, but by relying on God's power and reading , memorizing, having bible studies, keeping our eyes keenly focused and the ascended, glorified Christ we will chose less and less to sin, BY THE POWER OF GOD. Not my power! With out going into great detail, because I am not sure that you will get this since it has been some time that this thread has sat idle. But God is much more powerful than Satan, and God lives in us if we were properly immersed for the forgiveness of sins and the gift of the holy Spirit, so through his continual working with us through His word and His Spirit we can overcome, the only thing we need is faith that he can do what he promised, and apply ourselves as the scriptures say. So if you are interested in seeing if this is false teaching, or if it has scriptural merit I will provided a booklet free of charge. And all I ask is that you allow truth to lead where it may regardless of where that may be.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2000