I've been invited to preach at a Seventh Day Adventist church in 3 weeks...

Any sermon suggestions?

PS. I may be invited back, too.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Answers

Yeah....

How about..."The False Prophecies of Ellen G. White."

Or....."Religious Cultism.....and How To Avoid It."

Need any more ideas??

Duane....

I'm more curious as to how you ended up with the opportunity to preach in a cult.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

John,

Please give us the sermon outline.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Hey Robin....

You bring up an excellent point in that by current evangelical standards, the Christian Church is defined as "a cult." I think it reads something like, "anything that focuses on works as opposed to grace." (Again, to label baptism as a work is an affront to God.)

Anyway, that is a poor definition.

I define cults in two ways.....usually both are invovled....

1) Any group that owes its origin and growth to a "charismatic" individual;

2) Any group that claims divine inspiration BEYOND the New Testament.

The last one is the key for me. I define a cult as a group who sees their writings and/or continuing revelation as necessary for biblical understanding.

For the JW's....this would be Charles Taze Russell and the Watchtower Society.

For the Mormons...this would be Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and the 12 apostles who still speak to God in Salt Lake.

For the Moonies....this would be Sun Young Moon.

For the Seventh Day Adventest...this would be Ellen G. White and her writings.

In the last 10 years the 7th Day Adventist have tried extrememly hard to be accepted by mainline Christianity. And, they have been somewhat successful, especially in this day when our defintion of love has a high tolerance for false doctrine.

In 1989, I received a book from them, sent free to preachers all across the US that outlined their beliefs and carried the thesis..."See.....we are not that different from you."

However, if you look carefully at the footnotes, over 75% of them are laced with references to Ellen G. White and her writings.

Personally, for me to ever accept them, I would need them to renounce the writings of Ellen G. White and promise never to use them again.

BTW....the Worldwide Church of God has done this with the writings of Herbert W. Armstrong. They too have been seeking acceptance and did go so far as to repent.

Hope this helps.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Robin....

NO!!!!

That book is the one I was referring to.

Do you not see the inconsistency here??

You cannot say on one hand...."The Bible is the authority"....and then lace 75% of the footnotes with quotes from Ellen G. White!!

Face it!! Without Ellen G. White and her writings....the S.D.A. church would cease to have existed long ago.

The S.D.A. church in addition to this problem....must drop their Sabbath requirement....and even many churches push being vegetarian.

Don't buy it Robin....it is nothing but an attempt to get recognition as "mainline."

When I teach cults next year......the S.D.A.'s will be right among them.

-- Anonymous, April 05, 2000

Robin....

You'll do well I'm sure.

-- Anonymous, April 05, 2000

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

How about ---- April Fool!!!!

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Perhaps a sermon on legalism?

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

I know, Danny, it is quite an opportunity.

Eat your hearts out, preachers!

A fellow in our church knows some folks over there real well...

Let's co-write a sermon..... all of us, together...

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Duane,

I thought you were making an April fools statement. I'm glad you are going to be preaching there. We will be praying for you.

I look forward to seeing you soon.

Jim

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

I held a seminar once in a Foursquare church. That was pretty wierd.

Never did see where their foursquare court was, though. I remember playing that when I was a kid, never had any idea I was being spiritual.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Duane, Here is a serious suggestion. Develop a message whose purpose is to present the overall message or theme of the book of Hebrews. As you have opportunity in the future (if you do), You can do a series from the book itself.

As you know, the Book of Hebrews encourages the Hebrew Christians not to return to living under the law. But, rather, remain in Christ. For all that is a part of this New Covenant is *better* than the Old Covenant.

Anyway, It may open some eyes, and it may lock others. Whatever you choose, I am sure that you will do well. Tell them about Jesus and how there is no other but Him whereby comest salvation.....

In constant prayer to the day, Your Bro Dave

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Danny,

Me again... not following you around... you just write things that catch my eye!

How do you define 'cult'? My American Heritage has, "A system or community of religious worship and ritual; especially one focusing upon a single deity or spirit."

I had always heard (being raised in a CoC) that a cult was a group that didn't believe in the deity of Christ (JW's, for instance) and that does seem to fit. Or a group with a single, charismatic leader (Jim Jones, etc.) But the dictionary definition would include us, would it not as we believe in One God. In fact, I just heard the Church of Christ called a cult today, as we 'add baptism on to the salvation plan'.... If I'm going to be in a cult, that is good reason, I think!!!

Anyway, I think that Seventh Day Adventist's believe in the deity of Christ, do they not?

Their main argument that I am familiar with is that the Sabbath was instituted long before the 10 commandments and that the 10 commandments were never done away with. (That is about all I know and would never pretend to speak for them, and I do know some scriptures that seem to refute the view, so no need to respond that way unless you are so inclined... it would make interesting reading, but not as interesting as it would if somebody was here to 'counter'.)

Should we have Saturday Evening worship services that people attend IN PLACE OF Sunday worship? :-)

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Danny,

Thanks Brother... that did help!

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

If only the other cults had the courage to do what the Worldwide Church of God has done and repent of their false doctrines, we would have a lot less headaches!

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Duane -

This came to me while I was driving (I just happen to think well while I am driving...please don't open up the 'inspiration' thread!).

When you go to preach there, just preach the exact same thing you would preach anywhere else. I think this is the scriptural example we are given.

It struck me as ironic that we collectively would refuse to speak at a meeting of "one of them" (name your group) because they didn't believe like "us." "We" would have fired the apostle Paul because he consistently spoke to those who believed differently and were antagonistic to what he believed. Yes, I can show you this scripturally. He constantly spoke in synagogues and other places of Jewish worship/gatherings. He spoke on Mars Hill, a pagan place of congregating. Isn't it interesting that Paul would do what we won't?

Anyway, I think the example is given by the apostle. Speak anywhere you are asked to speak at...but do not dilute the message, especially out of fear that they "won't like it." Paul didn't preach the Gospel to make friends or influence people. He did it to be honest. Just preach what is on your mind and be honest. I wouldn't recommend being antagonistic to be antagonistic, but don't compromise the message, either.

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Danny and Robin has brought up a good point concerning cults. BTW I keep hearing in my area of a Disciples of Christ minister who calls us "independent's" a cult.

Duane- preach Christ and Him crucified. Preach Christ loud and hard till your lungs fall out. That is my two cents worth.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

Danny (and all),

Here is something that I just receieve from a SDA member (that I do not know personally) that I thought you might find interesting:

+++++

The first thing I would like to share with you is a quote from the book "Seventh-day Adventists Believe" which is the fundamental beliefs of the church. "The writings of Ellen White are not a substitute for Scripture. They cannot be placed on the same level. The Holy Scriptures stand alone, the unique standard by which her and all other writings must be judged and to which they must be subject...Seventh-day Adventists fully support the Reformation principle of Sola Scriptura, the Bible as its own interpreter and the Bible alone as the basis of all doctrines. The founders of the church developed fundamental beliefs through study of the Bible; they did not receive these doctrines through the visions of Ellen White...Ellen White herself believed and taught that the Bible was the ultimate norm for the church...She saw her work as that of leading people back to the Bible." Seventh-day Adventists Believe pp 227-228.

+++++

Perhaps, with all of the inconsistencies and contradictions pointed out in her writings, they are beginning to question whether or not she was inspired?

Here is an interesting site concerning SDA's that I have found in case anyone is interested: http://www.truthorfables.com/Subjects.html

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

Danny,

Thanks again for your answer. I was wondering if that was a quote from the book you mentioned. I don't believe I am buying anything... (as I do see the contradiction between saying the Bible stands alone and calling EGW a 'prophetess'). I am trying to understand the issue from both perspectives (and thus asked a question that I was pretty sure you would answer NO!!!!).... I am currently working with (via email) a new SDA convert (and her 'mentor').... I am planting seeds of doubt (which is fairly easy to do on the EGW writings), etc. but realize that I must move carefully in order to maintain the relationship and thus have an opportunity to influence her. Prayers from you all in this matter would help.... as I know they would Duane in his upcoming preaching, also.

-- Anonymous, April 05, 2000

Robin wrote: "I am planting seeds of doubt ... but realize that I must move carefully in order to maintain the relationship and thus have an opportunity to influence her." This is exactly the attitude I was trying to get at in another thread when I said "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." I think people come in here that are, as Jesus put it, "not far from the kingdom of God," but in our passion against obvious heretics and their unfortunate ill timing in entering our forum, instead of moving carefully we broadside them with a full salvo of all we have and totally blow them out of the water. Thereby losing any possibility of any relationship and basis for dialog we might have had with them and thus losing any opportunity to influence them, as they entrench themselves in defense against our full frontal assaults.

In my humble opinion, for what its worth.

-- Anonymous, April 05, 2000

Dr. Jon noted that many preachers won't take the opportunity to preach in a pulpit where the people don't believe as we do ... or something to that effect.

I, for one (and I'm sure there are others) take the opportunity to preach the Good News wherever I have the opportunity. I may be given more opportunities than most in my present work as a campus minister.

A number of area congregations, of various denominational beliefs, have afforded me the opportunity to preach, filling in the pulpit, etc. It has been an exciting time, and I usually do what was mentioned above ... I preach whatever I would have preached that particular Sunday had I been in one of "our" pulpits.

I have always been received graciously, as has been the subject of my preaching. I pray this doesn't mean I have been wishy-washy in what I preach ... no, I'm sure that is not it. Maybe the folks in these various congregations are just hungry for the Word to be presented.

Same goes for my Bible studies and such in (a) my campus work, and (b) the new congregation we just started here in Indiana -- Indiana Christian Community. The "congregatin" is made up of students, mainly, from the widest possible background denomination wise. Yet they are interested in the Word being preached ... and I do just that!

Darrell H Combs

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

My reply to you is straight from Scriptures in 2 Chronicles chapter 7 and verse 14. Preach it brother. We all need a World Wide God strategy, for repentance and revival. When we do what God says this then is the best policy! We need Global Revival! We all need to Bless our Lord Jesus Christ.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Duane,

How did it go?

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000

I preached on the Resurrection, and the "Change" which resulted in the lives of the apostles.... and how the same facts of the resurrection demand change in us....

I did not make note of the resultant "change" in their day of worship.

Perhaps I should have?

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000